JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

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David Barrish
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JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by David Barrish » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:06 pm

The JDP Assessment Committee has been named. I understand that they will address and complete the path we will follow to get the kids back into the events. Based on my observation as a parent/participant I would commend the local group that has made this experience work for our family.

Now, to get to the change I would make... The program has three levels, or age groups. Our son was never going to fit into the "C" Karts for a season. But the issue is getting our kids onto a track, in a car, with an instructor to learn (anything) before the mandated age of ?

1. Allow a child, that is going to compete, access to to track. As a passenger, once they have started in the program. That would be at any age and level they are starting in the program.

Our son had been driving for three seasons before he reached the allowed age to be a passenger in my car. The fact that his first reaction to our lap was that I am slow, was a validation he had picked up the idea and was at that point "good to go". But his path to the correct line would have been that much sooner if he had a coach.

Yes, other than his patient. He always works better with a non parental coach. Thanks Robert!

Next suggestion?
Last edited by David Barrish on Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Anthony P.
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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by Anthony P. » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:38 am

1) Did you email Brian Harmer? If you didn't, ill pass along your message, but it's best that it comes from a current JDP parent.


So that its clear, are you suggesting letting JDP participants ride along with their parents during an event?

2) Being that it would be limited to participants ONLY and non participants, it would be possible for grid and the starter to verify the wristband to ensure they are a participant.

3) I see an issue with safety, however. First, they would at the very least need to be seated in an age appropriate seating (car seat). AND those seats aren't tested with the use of a helmet. NHTSA data, "A majority—61 percent—of children killed in car accidents were actually properly restrained." (Mostly head injuries)

4) Why is the current ride along limit 12 years old? You have been around much longer than I have, can you shed some light on how that came to be?

5) Looking though some other events, your idea seems to be a revolutionary idea as I don't know anyone else doing it. Who else does, or would we be the first? It seems like there could be an insurance underwriting issue.
PCA (Not allowed)
POC (Not Allowed)
Speed Ventures (16 or Older)
Porsche Experience Center demo laps (12 and older)
Extreme Experience Ride Along (12 and older and 54")
Exotics Racing (11 and older plus 80 lbs and 4 ft 9)

David Barrish
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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by David Barrish » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:37 pm

Anthony,

First, Thank you for passing this on to Brian.

If and when people start to take advantage of this program they are going to pay attention to "things and stuff" way out side of their personal auto cross "box". The minute you send your child off on a lap that allows them to do more than putt around, it take about two events, you start looking at things in a different light.

Having the opportunity to have our son in the car earlier in the process would have been helpful. Allowing a non parental instructor, invaluable.

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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by Anthony P. » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:41 am

David Barrish wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:37 pm
Anthony,

First, Thank you for passing this on to Brian.

If and when people start to take advantage of this program they are going to pay attention to "things and stuff" way out side of their personal auto cross "box". The minute you send your child off on a lap that allows them to do more than putt around, it take about two events, you start looking at things in a different light.

Having the opportunity to have our son in the car earlier in the process would have been helpful. Allowing a non parental instructor, invaluable.
So that I can present the best case possible can you help over the common objections they might have?

Also, coaching can be done as long as they have a camera. If you have data, I know Will Kalman used to switch with his kids once in a while to have something to compare. Since he's not around I would be happy to take a run.

For that in the car feel, a 360 camera is also something that can be used with VR on a phone.

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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by David Barrish » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:30 pm

Anthony,

I'm asking for a "in a car, with the kids" in the beginning situation. Having a two way conversation with them as they are on the course in the very beginning, opportunity.

Your description works in a more advanced application.

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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by Anthony P. » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:54 pm

David Barrish wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:30 pm
Anthony,

I'm asking for a "in a car, with the kids" in the beginning situation. Having a two way conversation with them as they are on the course in the very beginning, opportunity.

Your description works in a more advanced application.
Yeah, I must be missing something. What are you proposing, specifically?

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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by David Barrish » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:38 pm

Without regard to the age of child, that wishes to participate in the JDP events, they be allowed to ride with a SCCA member parent or instructor.

For the purposes of an introduction to the cones, line of travel and driving details.

I do not see this as a drive at speed, but one of an introduction to the basics.

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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by Anthony P. » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:08 pm

Right. And your proposal doesnt include that it's not at speed. Nor does it address accountability, of how a region is supposed to enforce it, which is one of the new goals.

Why do you think this change is necessary?

If it's about introduction and learning, I think having a Jr kart only course setup seprate from the adult course would allow for more rapid learning. Or having an adult/instructor/more experienced Jr, do a lead follow on course.

I dont think being in a car is necessary. I wouldn't personally choose that method. A lot can be learned in a simulator or even simple racing games. Then there are lapping days, k1, and more. Video and data beyond that.

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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by David Barrish » Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:48 am

Anthony,

I think you are on the right path for beginners. Can you ask what is the issue for kids with years of experience running to the established rules?

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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by Anthony P. » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:46 am

David Barrish wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:48 am
Anthony,

Can you ask what is the issue for kids with years of experience running to the established rules?
From what I have gathered from the information that has been publicly released by the SCCA, the issue with kids with years of experience running to established rules is that those rules do not effectively reduce the risk to an acceptable level. Their program review found there wasn't enough accountability to ensure the current rules were being followed AND even when followed there still represents a "gap" in the established rules that changes the risk to an unacceptable level. Hence the suspension of the program for everyone, because as they explained, the established rules are insufficient.

If you didn't receive contact from the email from the SCCA or it wasn't forwarded to you, here is the initial letter from the SCCA to some JDP parents.
  • Dear Junior Karting Family,

    Based on the guidance and approval of the Solo Events Board, Solo Safety Committee, Solo National Staff and the SCCA Board of Directors, the Junior Driver Program is being put “on hold” effective immediately and until further notice for the purpose of doing a complete program evaluation. This means that we will not be able to have JDP competitors at events for the foreseeable future.

    The Why

    During a standard review of the Junior Driver Program (JDP), we identified some potential gaps in different facets of the program—from course design and equipment to training and licensing—that have the potential to negatively impact the safety of our junior drivers—and, of course, your junior driver. To remain consistent with the SCCA’s Mission to provide a safe and fun motorsports experience for enthusiasts, these concerns necessitate an immediate pause in holding JDP events, with a concurrent evaluation to ensure the consistency, scalability and overall safety of the Junior Driver Program.

    The How

    The evaluation will cover all aspects of the current JDP effort including, but not limited to, course design, driver training/qualification, youth steward training, kart tech standards, etc. The work will begin immediately with the formation of a BoD-approved team comprised of experienced Youth Stewards, Solo Safety Stewards, SEB members, BoD Solo liaisons, National Staff and JDP Parents. This team will be charged with evaluating the program, which could take as little as 60 days or extend through the remainder of the 2020 season...

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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by David Barrish » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:55 am

Again, thank you for the public forum disclosure, on a local basis. Will these issues be addressed on a chapter, that does not comply basis? Will those that conform and are certified as adhering to the approved standard be allowed to compete?

Looking at it from a reward good behavior basis, are we not one of the bench marks of how it should be done?

Looking forward to our new check list and getting our kids back in their karts.

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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by Anthony P. » Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:36 pm

David Barrish wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:55 am
Again, thank you for the public forum disclosure, on a local basis.
Your welcome. I hope my daughter will one day join the JPD program and I'm sure Marshall is actively involved via his SEB participation.
David Barrish wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:55 am
Will these issues be addressed on a chapter, that does not comply basis?
No it is a nationwide stoppage.
David Barrish wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:55 am
Will those that conform and are certified as adhering to the approved standard be allowed to compete?
No, because the approved standard is no longer approved. There is NO approved standard currently.
David Barrish wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:55 am
Looking at it from a reward good behavior basis, are we not one of the bench marks of how it should be done?
We are, but I think you might be skimming what I am typing. Our best isn't good enough. Just because we haven't had an issue does not mean that a "gap in safety" doesn't exist.

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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by Steve Ekstrand » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:23 pm

Junior training and coaching at the kart track usually involves lead follow exercises. A coach in a kart leads the student(s) in a kart. We got an okay to try this only at very very low speed to see the course better. Not to instruct.
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Anthony P.
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Re: JDP Assessment Committee Named, now we can...

Post by Anthony P. » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:14 am

Update from the solo town hall.

The committee has been formed. A comprehensive plan must now be developed, including rules, a training program, re-certification, etc. Then that must be submitted to the SEB which then would approve/modify, then to go to the B.O.D for final approval. After that, then the re-certification can begin. Then JDP can run again.

As you can imagine, that is going to take some time. This almost certainly wont be done in time for nationals. We were told maybe things would be done in time to start Jan 2021.

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