Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Moderators: Mike Simanyi, Rick Brown, Michael Palero

Giovanni Jaramillo
Posts: 2761
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: PSCC

Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Giovanni Jaramillo » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:48 am

Suggestion of addition of rule to either

  • Section 7 -- CSCC SOLO REGIONAL CHAMPIONSIHP POINTS AND AWARDS or
  • Section 9 -- SOLO COMMITTEE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES

(7.1.2)/(9.1.3) POINTS CARD RENEWAL: Points card number(s), expire at the end of the calendar year (12/31/xxxx). Renewal of a points card for the following year will be announced on the 1st of October of the current year. If the points card is not renewed by the end of the current year, that number will become available to anyone and is not reserved for the previous card holder. At that point the number will be available on a "first-come, first-serve" basis, with the exception of the protected number range: 1-199. Those numbers are assigned at the discretion of the Solo Membership Chairman.

This is to become effective for year 2011.
Last edited by Giovanni Jaramillo on Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
George Schilling
Club Representative
Posts: 4971
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: CASOC
Car#: 66
Location: Lakewood, CA

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby George Schilling » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:55 am

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:At that point the number will be sold to anyone at "first-come, first-serve" basis, with the exception of the protected number range: 1-199.


I suggest this slight change in wording

At that point the number will be available on a "first-come, first-serve" basis, with the exception of the protected number range: 1-199.
Last edited by George Schilling on Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
CASOC Autocross Club, 1984 Van Diemen RF-84, 1600cc Kent, Hewland Mk9, Centerline 2 pc. wheels, Hoosier R25B, SuperTrapp, Zimmer Alloclassic titanium left hip w/Metasul LDH chromium-cobalt lg dia head

Giovanni Jaramillo
Posts: 2761
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: PSCC

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Giovanni Jaramillo » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:56 am

George Schilling wrote:
Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:At that point the number will be sold to anyone at "first-come, first-serve" basis, with the exception of the protected number range: 1-199.


I suggest this slight change in wording

At that point the number will be available on a "first-come, first-serve" basis, with the exception of the protected number range: 1-199.

Thanks George.

User avatar
Ken Lord
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:27 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 951
Location: Aliso Viejo

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Ken Lord » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:48 am

"Giovanni Jaramillo"Suggestion of addition of rule to either

Section 7 -- CSCC SOLO REGIONAL CHAMPIONSIHP POINTS AND AWARDS or
Section 9 -- SOLO COMMITTEE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES"

Gio - I will look and see the best fit for this and see if it causes any other conflicts. Thanks for the language.

Giovanni Jaramillo
Posts: 2761
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: PSCC

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Giovanni Jaramillo » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:37 pm

Ken Lord wrote:
Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:Suggestion of addition of rule to either

Section 7 -- CSCC SOLO REGIONAL CHAMPIONSIHP POINTS AND AWARDS or
Section 9 -- SOLO COMMITTEE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES"

Gio - I will look and see the best fit for this and see if it causes any other conflicts. Thanks for the language.

Just a reminder Ken to have this ready for our meeting this Wed.

Thanks

User avatar
Craig Naylor
Posts: 1895
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 80
Location: Long Beach

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Craig Naylor » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:37 pm

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:Suggestion of addition of rule to either

  • Section 7 -- CSCC SOLO REGIONAL CHAMPIONSIHP POINTS AND AWARDS or
  • Section 9 -- SOLO COMMITTEE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES

(7.1.2)/(9.1.3) POINTS CARD RENEWAL: After October 1st Points card number(s) may be renewed. Points cards expire at the end of the calendar year (12/31/xxxx). Renewal of a points card for the following year will be announced on the 1st of October of the current year. If the points card is not renewed by the end of the current year, that number will become available to anyone and is not reserved for the previous card holder. At that point the number will be available on a "first-come, first-served" basis, with the exception of the protected number range: 1-199. Those numbers are assigned at the discretion of the Solo Membership Chairman.

This is to become effective for year 2011.


Gio, thanks for the work. May I suggest a variation a bit less wordy:

7.1.2)/(9.1.3) POINTS CARD RENEWAL: Points cards may be renewed after Oct. 1st. Points card number(s) must be renewed by the end of the calendar year, or they will expire. Expired number(s) are available on a "first-come, first-served" basis, with the exception of numbers: 1-199, assigned at the discretion of the Solo Membership Chairman.

Reasons for changes :
"(12/31/xxxx), Redundant, what other definition of a calender year would there be?
Sentence including "announced on the 1st of October" Do we need a rule that states when future announcement will be made? Is there a benefit or consequence if were off a day / week or so?
End of second sentence beginning of third sentence - Redundant
Last portion just wordy... shortens it up.
Last edited by Craig Naylor on Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Giovanni Jaramillo
Posts: 2761
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: PSCC

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Giovanni Jaramillo » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:30 pm

Craig Naylor wrote:May I suggest a variation a bit less wordy:

You do forget that I'm writing this for the lowest common denominator of readers right? :mrgreen: I'm all for less wordiness though, so however it is written, I'm fine with, just that the gist of it all is.....NO MORE GRACE PERIOD.

Craig Naylor wrote:7.1.2)/(9.1.3) POINTS CARD RENEWAL: Points card number(s) must be renewed by the end of the calendar year, or they will expire. Expired number(s) are available on a "first-come, first-serve" basis, with the exception of numbers: 1-199, assigned at the discretion of the Solo Membership Chairman.

Ken, I'm fine with Craig's change.
Craig Naylor wrote:Reasons for changes :
"(12/31/xxxx), Redundant, what other definition of a calender year would there be?
End of second sentence beginning of third sentence - Redundant
Last portion just wordy... shortens it up.

No problem.
Last edited by Giovanni Jaramillo on Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Webster Jessup
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:57 am
Club: CASOC
Car#: 122
Location: SoCal

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Webster Jessup » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:49 pm

with the exception of numbers: 1-199, assigned at the discretion of the Solo Membership Chairman.


How about voting instead of this garbage.

Giovanni has already abused this BADLY this year.

Giovanni Jaramillo
Posts: 2761
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: PSCC

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Giovanni Jaramillo » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:14 pm

Webster Jessup wrote:
with the exception of numbers: 1-199, assigned at the discretion of the Solo Membership Chairman.


How about voting instead of this garbage.

Giovanni has already abused this BADLY this year.

This discretion was GRANTED to me (an E-Board Sub-commitee member) by the Solo Committee that was VOTED on. I have never abused my powers, and if you feel I have abused them towards you, then please report it to your club rep and it will be brought up at the meeting. But in your case you were a new member, and except under special circumstances, we, the region do NOT grant out coveted numbers 1-199 to newbies. In regards to the special circumstances, these "new" members, were not necessarily newbies just new to the region and they came with recommendations from long-standing core members to me, and I then made the change.

But again your tone of voice (or rather e-mail post) will most likely assure that you do NOT get a number within the 1-199 range in the near future. As a volunteer for this region for almost 10yrs, I've learned to develop thick skin in regards to posts about me when it comes to people wanting numbers that they can't get.

Or feel free to e-mail the chairman or vice-chairman of this region to air your grievance towards me.

Thank you very much,
Sincerely

Membership Chairman
GJ

User avatar
Mike Simanyi
Executive Board Member
Posts: 2096
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: No$
Car#: 6

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Mike Simanyi » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:40 pm

As Gio noted, he has been granted the authority on managing those numbers. That isn't *exclusive* authority - he's working on behalf of the Board - so anyone with a concern about how it was administered should certainly mention it to their Club Rep for Committee review.

Mike

Giovanni Jaramillo
Posts: 2761
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: PSCC

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Giovanni Jaramillo » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:03 pm

Craig Naylor wrote:Sentence including "announced on the 1st of October" Do we need a rule that states when future announcement will be made? Is there a benefit or consequence if were off a day / week or so?

Actually yes....because it's an easy number to remember and plenty of time. Oct. 1st = 3 months notice to renew your points card, thus if it's consistent, then everyone knows to start to renew now as opposed to at the literal 11th hour of the final day of the year, where you cannot expect me to be on the computer on New Year's Eve to process your application when I would most likely be :barf: at some party :mrgreen: :lol:
Now with that said, I do hope to automate this completely but that takes time. :)

Mike Simanyi wrote:That isn't *exclusive* authority - he's working on behalf of the Board

Thanks for the correction.

User avatar
Craig Naylor
Posts: 1895
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 80
Location: Long Beach

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Craig Naylor » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:13 pm

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:
Webster Jessup wrote: How about voting instead of this garbage.

Giovanni has already abused this BADLY this year.


But again your tone of voice (or rather e-mail post) will most likely assure that you do NOT get a number within the 1-199 range in the near future.

Membership Chairman
GJ


Webster, I also don't like this portion of the rule, but the power was granted last year. I personally feel it should be first come first serve. If you've been around a while, then you ought to know to make the request early. I was not trying to re-write the rules intent, just it's wordiness.

Gio, that comment was out of line, and as a club rep I will vote to remove such discretion (emergency action) if I learn this type of threat is repeated. Attacked: perceived, actual, implied, or not, that was very unprofessional and an apology posted! Unsportsmanlike like actions should be referred to the board if you feel they are aimed at you. Responding in kind by someone representing the organization is even worse! Remember your granted authority by the Board, your not an independent prosecutor, judge & jury rolled into one.

Giovanni Jaramillo
Posts: 2761
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: PSCC

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Giovanni Jaramillo » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Craig Naylor wrote:Unsportsmanlike like actions should be referred to the board if you feel they are aimed at you.

Don't need to refer to them as these pot-shots are out in the open for all to see (and this is not the first time it's been aimed at me by this member). Others have been via e-mail offline.

Craig Naylor wrote:Remember your granted authority by the Board, your not an independent prosecutor, judge & jury rolled into one.

Trust me I know this as I always run by several requests to the E-Board but again when you attack the committee/E-board why should we still accomodate you (not you in particular Craig, but said member)? Let's discuss this tomorrow at the meeting instead of taking the thread off-topic. But I do stand by my statement so we'll have to agree to "disagree".

User avatar
Craig Naylor
Posts: 1895
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 80
Location: Long Beach

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Craig Naylor » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:25 pm

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:you cannot expect me to be on the computer on New Year's Eve to process your application when I would most likely be :barf: at some party :mrgreen: :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nowhere in the rules does it say anyone is processing live, nor do we expect you to. They just need to postmark, or go online before the year ends. Anything dated Jan 1st is now either late, or expired (depending on how you look at it), and has the potential to be issued to someone else.

But that said, I don't see how including "OCT 1st" has anything to do with Dec 31st deadline. This gives the membership chair (yourself or someone else in the future) some leeway... ie if you happen to be on vacation, layed up in the hospital etc... your not "late" in posting such. If you feel you and future Membership Chair(persons) need such a deadline looming over your head, come hell or high-water, I guess it could be re-added.

I have no issue with the time period (3 months), it's including it in the rule book. So I ask the same question I asked above. "Is there a benefit or consequence if were off a day / week or so?"
Last edited by Craig Naylor on Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Giovanni Jaramillo
Posts: 2761
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: PSCC

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Giovanni Jaramillo » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:28 pm

Craig Naylor wrote:They just need to postmark, or go online before the year ends. Anything dated Jan 1st is now either late, or expired (depending on how you look at it), and has the potential to be issued to someone else.

Obviously you missed the smileys that meant the post to be taken "tongue in cheek"
Craig Naylor wrote:But that said, I don't see how including "OCT 1st" has anything to do with Dec 31st deadline. This gives the membership chair (yourself or someone else in the future) some leeway... ie if you happen to be on vacation, layed up in the hospital etc... your not "late" in posting such. If you feel you and future Membership Chair(persons) need such a deadline looming over your head, come hell or high-water, I guess it could be re-added.

Disagree. If it's written in the rules that Oct. 1st is when renewals can start to be accepted then if I forget to post a reminder thread on the forums or the news that's okay as it's there in the Supp Regs for all to see.

P.S. - You've got e-mail.
Last edited by Giovanni Jaramillo on Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Theo O.
Posts: 1277
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:29 am

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Theo O. » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:05 pm

Craig Naylor wrote:
Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:
Webster Jessup wrote: How about voting instead of this garbage.

Giovanni has already abused this BADLY this year.


But again your tone of voice (or rather e-mail post) will most likely assure that you do NOT get a number within the 1-199 range in the near future.

Membership Chairman
GJ


Webster, I also don't like this portion of the rule, but the power was granted last year. I personally feel it should be first come first serve. If you've been around a while, then you ought to know to make the request early. I was not trying to re-write the rules intent, just it's wordiness.

Gio, that comment was out of line, and as a club rep I will vote to remove such discretion (emergency action) if I learn this type of threat is repeated. Attacked: perceived, actual, implied, or not, that was very unprofessional and an apology posted! Unsportsmanlike like actions should be referred to the board if you feel they are aimed at you. Responding in kind by someone representing the organization is even worse! Remember your granted authority by the Board, your not an independent prosecutor, judge & jury rolled into one.


Agree.

If new people are allegedly welcome to join us, such threat will absolutely chase them away, heck this has to be off putting to current members. Someone who yields such omnipotent powers should come out and introduce themselve to the new members and facilitate a different kind of atmosphere.

Will be much better than dismissively calling them newbies. But what do I know, I am just a newbie and should just shut the hell up. :lol:
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin

Giovanni Jaramillo
Posts: 2761
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: PSCC

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Giovanni Jaramillo » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:35 pm

Theo Osifeso wrote:If new people are allegedly welcome to join us, such threat will absolutely chase them away, heck this has to be off putting to current members. Someone who yields such omnipotent powers should come out and introduce themselve to the new members and facilitate a different kind of atmosphere.

Will be much better than dismissively calling them newbies. But what do I know, I am just a newbie and should just shut the hell up. :lol:

You most DEFINITELY should be a diplomat or ambassador Theo! :)

User avatar
Jeff Stuart
King of Fastrack!
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:31 pm
Club: CASOC
Car#: 13
Location: Santa Barbara
Contact:

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Jeff Stuart » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:30 pm

As far as the whole 1-199 number thing goes, from the perspective of a relative outsider, or "newbie" if you like, I don't see any reason those numbers should be special at all. All it does is serve as a source of controversy and drama, as evidenced by this thread.

User avatar
Steve Ekstrand
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 7238
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: CASOC
Car#: 15
Location: This space left intentionally blank
Contact:

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Steve Ekstrand » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:20 pm

Jeff Stuart wrote:As far as the whole 1-199 number thing goes, from the perspective of a relative outsider, or "newbie" if you like, I don't see any reason those numbers should be special at all. All it does is serve as a source of controversy and drama, as evidenced by this thread.



Sounds more like proof that they are special. If you don't think so, cool, chalk one more off the list.
Dr. Conemangler
aka The Malefic One
2015 Wildcat Honda F600

Webster Jessup
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:57 am
Club: CASOC
Car#: 122
Location: SoCal

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Webster Jessup » Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:31 pm

Craig Naylor wrote:
Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:
Webster Jessup wrote: How about voting instead of this garbage.

Giovanni has already abused this BADLY this year.


But again your tone of voice (or rather e-mail post) will most likely assure that you do NOT get a number within the 1-199 range in the near future.

Membership Chairman
GJ


Webster, I also don't like this portion of the rule, but the power was granted last year. I personally feel it should be first come first serve. If you've been around a while, then you ought to know to make the request early. I was not trying to re-write the rules intent, just it's wordiness.

Gio, that comment was out of line, and as a club rep I will vote to remove such discretion (emergency action) if I learn this type of threat is repeated. Attacked: perceived, actual, implied, or not, that was very unprofessional and an apology posted! Unsportsmanlike like actions should be referred to the board if you feel they are aimed at you. Responding in kind by someone representing the organization is even worse! Remember your granted authority by the Board, your not an independent prosecutor, judge & jury rolled into one.



Gio knows what he did, but he'll continue to play it off and say that I'm taking "pot shots", blah, blah, BS.

Just for clarification. I received #122 last Feb, which was my first year. I here about the renewal process so I submitted my request at MIDNIGHT. I even received an email from Gio stating that I had renewed my points card with my new requested number.

He then comes back a few days later stating all this BS about he gets to decide who gets numbers in the 1-199 range. Yet, this is a guy I've never seen at an event. If you look at last years points, he attended maybe one or two events. Not a very good position for someone who is Membership Chairman. He also apparently did the same thing to a few other members. Hrmmn. Sounds like abuse to me. But what do I know, I'm just a "newb", and he feels content on using this word as a negative connotation whenever he can.

Ron Tsumura
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: GRA
Car#: 190
Location: Ventura

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Ron Tsumura » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:09 pm

In defense of Gio, he does show up to the monthly meetings and processes all the memberships every year.

If you want to see some changes, maybe you should become a club rep and/or take on some official duties? Just a thought...

User avatar
Steve Ekstrand
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 7238
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: CASOC
Car#: 15
Location: This space left intentionally blank
Contact:

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Steve Ekstrand » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:23 pm

Web and Michael have been great new members. They volunteer and help at events all the time and this year stepped up to do National events too. Couldn't ask for any more out of a coupla' newbs.
Dr. Conemangler
aka The Malefic One
2015 Wildcat Honda F600

User avatar
Michael Smith
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:54 pm
Club: CASOC
Car#: 21
Location: SFV

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Michael Smith » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:26 am

Steve Ekstrand wrote:Web and Michael have been great new members. They volunteer and help at events all the time and this year stepped up to do National events too. Couldn't ask for any more out of a coupla' newbs.


Thanks Steve. I think it was unfortunate what happened. I had gone to every single event prior to the renewal and it was upsetting to hear that my number was given away because I had never been met by the membership chair. Then my second choice which was approved by their chair was taken away from me. This nonsense shouldn't have happened and was reminded why I joined. Not for the politics that go on but to have fun and race.
I still haven't missed a championship since joining and do need a break :(

User avatar
Max Hayter
Posts: 2007
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: CASOC
Car#: 31
Location: Powdering the boys...

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Max Hayter » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:22 am

Michael Smith wrote:Thanks Steve. I think it was unfortunate what happened. I had gone to every single event prior to the renewal and it was upsetting to hear that my number was given away because I had never been met by the membership chair. Then my second choice which was approved by their chair was taken away from me. This nonsense shouldn't have happened and was reminded why I joined. Not for the politics that go on but to have fun and race.
I still haven't missed a championship since joining and do need a break :(


I volunteered you for Chief of Workers at the Team Blew event :lol:

User avatar
Theo O.
Posts: 1277
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:29 am

Re: Rules Proposal: 2010-01

Postby Theo O. » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:15 pm

Damn newbs, I hate them so much :lol: I'm going to go kick that Michael one in his office right now :lol:

Gio, they really are good guys :thumbup:

Plus they are cute, like ducks :lol:

Image
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin


Return to “Public Rules Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests