FJs

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Richard Jung
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FJs

Postby Richard Jung » Mon May 03, 2010 10:17 pm

*Soccer parent mode on*

7.11 REGIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP AWARDS: Trophies are awarded in the following
manner:
(a) Open classes – One for 3 entrants, two for 5 entrants, one for each add’l 5.
(b) Ladies classes – One for 2 entrants, one for each additional 3.

(Add this?)
(c) FJ classes – One for 2 entrants, one for each additional 3.

Think there is any merit in this? Seems like a similar situation to the Ladies classes. The kids try pretty hard, and could grow through the FJ classes w/o receiving an event trophy due to low numbers. I think the parents would be glad to help fund it. Lots of encouraging "plastic" is given out in other kid's sport organisations. No biggie though, don't want to rock the boat.

Thanks,
Rick
Last edited by Richard Jung on Tue May 04, 2010 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FJs

Postby Stephen Yeoh » Mon May 03, 2010 11:49 pm

Naturally, I support this.

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George Schilling
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Re: FJs

Postby George Schilling » Tue May 04, 2010 12:07 am

I wouldn't support it. I guess I'm an old curmudgeon when it comes to participation trophies. Thinking back to when I was a kid, the only trophies I valued were the trophies I knew signified a real accomplishment. The kids know. More important than a trophy is the fact that you are spending time together and enjoying this as a family. That's what the kids will remember long after a participation trophy has been forgotten.

I'll cover up now as the rotten tomatoes are thrown at my head. :lol:
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Re: FJs

Postby Steve Ekstrand » Tue May 04, 2010 7:14 am

Look at what Rick is suggesting, just like the Ladies classes that have fewer numbers. Its not participation trophies, Kevin and Neelu go at it hard. They practice hard, do great in competition, but no trophy because they have only two not three.
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Re: FJs

Postby Karen Zaterman » Tue May 04, 2010 7:21 am

Steve Ekstrand wrote:Look at what Rick is suggesting, just like the Ladies classes that have fewer numbers. Its not participation trophies, Kevin and Neelu go at it hard. They practice hard, do great in competition, but no trophy because they have only two not three.


You mean what Rick posted in Bold is not what it is???
If so, I agree that it should be changed to same as Ladies classes. Seems like a reasonable request.

BTW... just slightly off topic: Regarding FJ registration -- We did decide that when there is a kids track set up on Practice days the kids do need to check in at registration... even if the hosting club is waiving any Practice fees (Team Blew had decided to still collect $10 to cover insurance cost). They need SCCA membership verified and a driver's wristband.
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Re: FJs

Postby Steve Ekstrand » Tue May 04, 2010 7:27 am

No, I was pointing out that it was the SAME as the ladies classes.


On the reg deal... I tried! ;)
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Re: FJs

Postby Karen Zaterman » Tue May 04, 2010 7:35 am

Steve Ekstrand wrote:No, I was pointing out that it was the SAME as the ladies classes.


Then... I don't understand the proposed change... are you guys suggesting a trophy for every kid?
If that is the case I concur with George.

I would however support a change to both Ladies & kids classes such as:
One for 2 entrants, two for 3 entrants, one for each additional 3.
No, Mako -- you do NOT need to supercharge your new Miata! ...cuz now it's my turn to take it to the track :)
hmmmm... it is no longer "new" -- is it time to get faster?

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Re: FJs

Postby George Schilling » Tue May 04, 2010 7:48 am

Richard Jung wrote:*Soccer parent mode on*

Lots of encouraging "plastic" is given out in other kid's sport organisations.


I read it as participation trophies for all as they do in so many kids sports leagues. My personal opinion is that whole concept is a mistake. The reality is there are winners and losers. I prefer instilling the concept that everyone can't win but it shouldn't stop you from trying to be the best as long as you're enjoying what your doing. That should be the reward. Teaching a child that everybody's a winner may be a popular, feel good concept, but I think it sends the wrong message. Now I know how Simon Cowell must feel. :D

That said, if the parents want to buy their children trophies, it's up to them. Personally, I'm just happy to see the kids and parents enjoying themselves and glad that we, as an organization, can play a small part in that. :thumbup:
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Re: FJs

Postby Steve Ekstrand » Tue May 04, 2010 7:58 am

The part in bold (C) doesn't currently exist. Rick is suggesting we treat the FJ's the same as we currently treat the Ladies classes. Currently, we treat the FJ's like open classes.

I don't know where George's participation trophies criticism comes from.... That is not this. Every lady doesn't get a participation trophy, the rule just acknowledges fewer entrants in still competitive classes. The FJC parents gave away our own participation awards, which I thought was okay with beginning 5-6yo's. We are beginning to push Dane, Cyan, and Robert a bit more with the competition because they are "grizzled veterans" now. ;)

Now on to something where George's criticism would apply.... I would support giving a season trophy to every FJ driver who ran a certain minimum number of events. I'd still rank them (1st, 2nd, and 3rd) in FJB and FJA. We did this at least one time I remember years ago on my urging and the chair agreed. The FJ's who run regularly really get into it and are deserving. I and other parents with certainly cover the cost of additional season trophies.
Last edited by Steve Ekstrand on Tue May 04, 2010 8:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: FJs

Postby Karen Zaterman » Tue May 04, 2010 8:00 am

Yes -- all that I agree with you on, George. Personally, on this last event my 2nd place means more to me than any other trophy I've recieved... and just maybe if Lisa doesn't get reruns on the next event... but that's another topic ;)
I think you are right -- kids know the score & whether they deserved what they got.

FJ's should be the same as L, IMO.
No, Mako -- you do NOT need to supercharge your new Miata! ...cuz now it's my turn to take it to the track :)
hmmmm... it is no longer "new" -- is it time to get faster?

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Re: FJs

Postby Theo O. » Tue May 04, 2010 8:05 am

They are kids for crying out loud. I don't think anyone is asking for all of them to get 1st place trophys. They should all get the corresponding trophy for the position they finished in regarless of how many kid is in the class, maybe up to 5.

Yes I know, in the only days we walk 50 miles to school with no shoe in a snow storm. But this is now and possitive encouragement works.
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: FJs

Postby Karen Zaterman » Tue May 04, 2010 8:14 am

Theo Osifeso wrote:Yes I know, in the only days we walk 50 miles to school with no shoe in a snow storm. But this is now and possitive encouragement works.


THAT wasn't US... that was our folks! We ain't that old :lol:

Encouragement should still come from the parents side like Steve suggests... they should do whatever they think appropriate but I don't think it need be changed in the Regs, other than make it same as Ladies class to accomodate lower entry numbers.
No, Mako -- you do NOT need to supercharge your new Miata! ...cuz now it's my turn to take it to the track :)
hmmmm... it is no longer "new" -- is it time to get faster?

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Re: FJs

Postby Theo O. » Tue May 04, 2010 11:21 am

:)
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: FJs

Postby Rick Brown » Tue May 04, 2010 12:30 pm

I agree with Rick's proposal.
Since light is faster than sound...many people look bright until they speak...

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Re: FJs

Postby Will Kalman » Tue May 04, 2010 1:10 pm

Theo Osifeso wrote:But this is now and possitive encouragement works.

After you have kids and turn Republican, I'll come back and ask you about this... Kids are the ultimate liberals. ;)

Seriously, though, I'm about as anti-little-league-syndrome as you can get but it does help give them the figurative kick-in-the-butt by pointing out that they are losing and that they can win if they apply themselves (and hopefully, they take these lessons with them into adulthood).

We started out by giving all the FJC (5-7 year-olds) little plastic medals for participating. It was they who were intently watching the timers and comparing times. Now they just flat-out compete!

So I support the 1 for 2, 2 for 3, and every three after that idea.

This is Cyan with the fist pump after I told her her time on Sunday:
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Re: FJs

Postby George Schilling » Tue May 04, 2010 1:15 pm

Steve Ekstrand wrote:The part in bold (C) doesn't currently exist. Rick is suggesting we treat the FJ's the same as we currently treat the Ladies classes. Currently, we treat the FJ's like open classes.


This wasn't clear in Rick's post. By invoking "soccer parent mode", that inferred a trophy for everyone as has become customary in most soccer leagues. If "C" is a proposed change to the existing, I wouldn't object, although I'd rather see all classes treated equally. Doesn't make sense to me to show favoritism to any class based on age or gender.
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Re: FJs

Postby Steve Ekstrand » Tue May 04, 2010 1:22 pm

Yeah the kids have some tude now. Pretty amazing to see 6 and 7 yo's act and talk like national level veterans. Maybe the only negative we've experienced is Robert has shown some really nasty sore loser moments. The first time Dane beat him was a real shock for little cocky Robert. He didn't handle it well. Cyan had a moment too an event or two ago where I think she dnf'd or lost or something. That episode wasn't rude like Robert, it was just she was upset and crying. But otherwise these three little ones in our first FJC experience have amazed us and brought tears of joy. Bijan hasn't competed yet, but he's really come along as a fourth FJCr. And we have Finn Puertas who just turned 5 and is learning the ropes. We might have scared him a little tossing on the whole course for the first time. He did so well in our little exercises building him up that we got overconfident and made a mistake I think. But he'll come around. What we saw in the drills was amazing.

The older kids just blow me away in FJB and FJA. They are so polite and respectful and have the best attitude. And they are fast and getting faster. I think we're looking at a lot of future jacket winners.
Last edited by Steve Ekstrand on Tue May 04, 2010 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FJs

Postby Richard Jung » Tue May 04, 2010 1:26 pm

George Schilling wrote:I wouldn't support it. I guess I'm an old curmudgeon when it comes to participation trophies. Thinking back to when I was a kid, the only trophies I valued were the trophies I knew signified a real accomplishment. The kids know. More important than a trophy is the fact that you are spending time together and enjoying this as a family. That's what the kids will remember long after a participation trophy has been forgotten.

I'll cover up now as the rotten tomatoes are thrown at my head. :lol:


I agree with George ,except for the tomatoes. ;)

What is being proposed is making the trophy rule the same the ladies class, due to a lower number of participants in FJ. A kid could go through FJC, FJB and FJA with out ever receiving a trophy for his/her wins, due to the smaller number of competitors than in open classes. Which is ok, as we respect what the Berry and Clements kids did for our FJ program, and they lived by the old rule.

It also should be noted that prepping and driving a kart, with the necessary safety gear, race fuel, towing, starters, etc. is waaaay more involved than running most of the cars out there. So while they're out there for fun, it's still a serious endeavor.
Last edited by Richard Jung on Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: FJs

Postby Bucky MacConaghy » Wed May 05, 2010 5:55 am

Theo Osifeso wrote:Yes I know, in the only days we walk 50 miles to school with no shoe in a snow storm. But this is now and possitive encouragement works.

You forgot that it was uphill . . . both ways! :lol:

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Re: FJs

Postby Craig Naylor » Mon May 05, 2014 3:43 pm

Richard Jung wrote:*Soccer parent mode on*

7.11 REGIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP AWARDS: Trophies are awarded in the following
manner:
(a) Open classes – One for 3 entrants, two for 5 entrants, one for each add’l 5.
(b) Ladies classes – One for 2 entrants, one for each additional 3.

(Add this?)
(c) FJ classes – One for 2 entrants, one for each additional 3.

Thanks,
Rick


Personally I always questioned why a Ladies class participant could get a trophy by beating one other, where as an open class participant had to beat two others. Now that someone posted the lower entrant concept, it finally makes sense. But that assumes all 40+ classes have 3 participants in Open... which isn't accurate either. But based upon that precedent, I agree with Ricks suggestion, but I would propose the following change, as I believe our Sups are to long anyway.

(b) Ladies & FJ classes - One for 2 entrants, one for each additional 3.

We only add three characters to an existing line, rather than a whole new line to the Sup regs.

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Re: FJs

Postby Will Kalman » Mon May 05, 2014 4:16 pm

This thread was brought back up from four years ago by the spambot. Nothing to see here.....

Actually, this thread is so old, it's almost eligible for FJC!

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Re: FJs

Postby Craig Naylor » Mon May 05, 2014 8:51 pm

Thought we voted on that a long time ago... figured it fell through the cracks. Didn't notice the original posting dates... oh well!

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Re: FJs

Postby Steve Ekstrand » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:20 pm

Sad part is that this did not get put into the rulebook until I got pissy about it for 2015.
We fail a lot around here.

Now if we can get the rulebook published for 2015 before the season ends.
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