Novice class changes for 2009

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Christine Grice
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Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Christine Grice »

So Marshall and I got to talking last night about potential class changes that are being discussed in the other thread and I found myself constantly coming back to this thought: No matter what we do, these potential classes will probably attract some pretty good drivers with some pretty well set up cars.

If the ultimate goal is to increase particiaption and bring new people into the sport then I think you need to start with a class we already have: Novice. A place where, as our current rules state, newbs wont get their doors blown off.

Now these are very rough and have some downfalls but here is a preliminary set of rules for a revamped Novice class.

Novice (NOV) and Novice Ladies (NOVL)
alternate titles: 1st year (1YR), Beginers (BE)

a) Purpose of this class: To encourage new members/competitors to participate in autocross and be introduced into the community in a class structured for their needs. Also, to allow them to sharpen their skills without being discouraged by “getting their doors blown off” by more experienced drivers.
b) Eligibility: A person who has competed in fewer then 4 event weekends per year (practice, championship or both in a weekend) within the last 5 years.
c) The Novice class will always run in the run group immediately following the lunch break. (This allows for participants to observe the event and prepare their car. This also allows for the event officials to anticipate the number of people in the novice class and rearrange run groups in the afternoon as necessary. Additionally, this will guarantee that there will be instructors available that have already completed their class runs)
d) The Novice class participants work assignments will be spread out as needed during the event to avoid a run group where only this class is working. (requires more work on the part of the work assignment registration worker)
e) There will be a guided Novice course walk during the lunch break, and the option of one during the morning walking session. (up to the discretion of the event officials or the Novice Coordinator)
f) There will be separate registration cards for the Novice class (denoted by a different color and slightly different format). These cards will have a space for the indexed class and a checkbox indicating street tires or race tires. (this aids registration and the computer entry position because the need for this information is highlighted by the color and format of the card)
g) Class results are based on the entrant’s best time multiplied by the National PAX/RTP Index for their SCCA Solo II class plus any penalty. This index is listed in Appendix C.
(indented)1. For cars with Stock, Street Prepared and Prepared Indexes: All cars running tires with a treadwear rating of 140 or higher will receive an additional PAX of .975 over their car’s standard PAX. The use of street tires must be indicated on the registration card.
h) Year end points will be calculated for this class. (encourages consistent class participation, maybe we only give a trophy for a championship win, like nationals does with FJA/FJB/FSAE)


Section g makes it so that this class is indexed exactly like the Historic class is indexed, and Rick already said that he could add a street tire index to classes such as the street prepareds.

The whole basic concept is to allow us to cater to new people, focusing on these basics:
1. keep the novices out of the first group when we never have instructors.
2. allow them to watch the action and get accostumed to the flow before running.
3. have them all get a chance to get a course walk since they have plenty of time to prep their cars during the morning groups.

I will be the first one to admit it is not a perfect plan because it forces us to potentially make changes during the afternoon groups if 40 novices show up, but if the point is to bring people in, maybe we need to make our lives a little more difficult first.

Please feel free to give suggestions.
~Christine Grice
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Jeff Shyu »

having just answered some people on "what class would my car be in for SCCA SOLO" (yes, i'm sure Christine, Marshall, and Aaron are laughing hysterically at the irony), the NOV and NOVL would be very welcomed by them.

This would truly be the "run what you brung" class for people who didn't look through the rule books first to maximize their efforts in a class. It'd be great for people who bought into a group buy for a boost controller/springs/braces/etc that bumped them into a real class where there's no way they'd otherwise be competitive in.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Mike Simanyi »

I suggest implementing this *as well as* the changes being discussed in the other thread.

Leonard, any comments?

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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Glenn Duensing »

Christine,

You're on the right track. Novices need to be able to run longer in the Novice class. What you came up with is very close to what I put out before.

1. Split the novices to two groups (if and when they grow big) and run them just before lunch and the the last run group. Smaller groups in this run groups would make it easier to get instructors as most would have already run.

2. Allow novices to run for one year in novice class before moving them into the regular classes.

3. Count 5 or x amount of events for points. That way a novice could enter late in the season and still be able to score enough points for a trophy.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Christine Grice »

Sorry, I guess I didn't make my thoughts clear. You can change the other classes all you want. In fact I like to idea of CSM being limited to street tires. This was meant to be stand alone, not attached to or in place of the other potential class changes.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Sebastian Rios »

Do we have a way of dealing with the possibility of the novice class being too large?
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Marshall Grice »

Jeff Shyu wrote:This would truly be the "run what you brung" class for people who didn't look through the rule books first to maximize their efforts in a class. It'd be great for people who bought into a group buy for a boost controller/springs/braces/etc that bumped them into a real class where there's no way they'd otherwise be competitive in.
you'd still have to figure out what class you'd be in. and running a boost controller is still going to screw you on index. The point of this change is to provide a structured, welcoming environment to bring people up to speed with out crushing their fragile ego's. ;)

Offering year end points is a big change from the current novice class, but I think it's a good change. Currently there is no incentive for people to continue coming out and getting their butt kicked other then if you do actually kick some butt (ie trophy in the novice class) you immediately get thrown to the wolves. Our current novice class is nothing more then the neighborhood crack dealer offering some kid their first 'hit' for free and hoping they get addicted. No real incentive to come out and participate in a class for a year. Fighting for 'rookie of the year' certainly has a better shot of keeping people motivated when they don't have to worry about getting kicked out if they do too good.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Marshall Grice »

Glenn Duensing wrote:
3. Count 5 or x amount of events for points. That way a novice could enter late in the season and still be able to score enough points for a trophy.
hey...additonal drops for newbs. interesting idea. I'd be affraid of giving them a free pass to walk all over us like the X-run only guys do though. We want to build people that come out to every championship, not only show up for NOTLD every year.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Christine Grice »

I also like the idea of increading the number of drops that people get for the Novice class.

Year end trophy for Novice is Rookie of the Year. Also sounds good.


Novice (NOV) and Novice Ladies (NOVL)
alternate titles: 1st year (1YR), Beginers (BE)

a) Purpose of this class: To encourage new members/competitors to participate in autocross and be introduced into the community in a class structured for their needs. Also, to allow them to sharpen their skills without being discouraged by “getting their doors blown off” by more experienced drivers.
b) Eligibility: A person who has competed in fewer then 4 event weekends per year (practice, championship or both in a weekend) within the last 5 years.
c) The Novice class will always run in the run group immediately following the lunch break.
d) The Novice class participants work assignments will be spread out as needed during the event to avoid a run group where only this class is working.
e) There will be a guided Novice course walk during the lunch break, and the option of one during the morning walking session.
f) There will be separate registration cards for the Novice class. These cards will have a space for the indexed class and a checkbox indicating street tires or race tires.
g) Class results are based on the entrant’s best time multiplied by the National PAX/RTP Index for their SCCA Solo II class plus any penalty. This index is listed in Appendix C.
(indented)1. For cars with Stock, Street Prepared and Prepared Indexes: All cars running tires with a treadwear rating of 140 or higher will receive an additional PAX of .975 over their car’s standard PAX. The use of street tires must be indicated on the registration card.
h) Year end points will be calculated for this class. Each competitor will get 5 drops. The year end winner will recieve the "Rookie of the Year" award.
~Christine Grice
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Christine Grice »

Sebastian Rios wrote:Do we have a way of dealing with the possibility of the novice class being too large?
That is one of the problems I couldn't really come up with a good solution for. Thats why I suggested spreading their work assignments out through the rungroups. Maybe the "work" half of the run-work order needs to be a little flexible.

I guess that since you can stay in the class for the whole season then you wouldn't have only "never done this before" newbs.

Any suggestions?
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Sebastian Rios »

Christine Berry wrote:
Sebastian Rios wrote:Do we have a way of dealing with the possibility of the novice class being too large?
That is one of the problems I couldn't really come up with a good solution for. Thats why I suggested spreading their work assignments out through the rungroups. Maybe the "work" half of the run-work order needs to be a little flexible.

I guess that since you can stay in the class for the whole season then you wouldn't have only "never done this before" newbs.

Any suggestions?
Spreading the workers out is good, more work at reg but doable for sure. I am worried about the Ferrari owner's club showing up with 80 cars :lol: and making a run group that's 3hours long.

Sorry, no suggestions.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Rick Brown »

I kinda like Glenn's idea of two groups for Novices, right after lunch and end of day. One of the solutions to class size surprise could be in our probable revised online registration setup. We are likely to go to allowing everyone to pre-register (and pre-pay) online, which should reduce the at event registrations considerably. This would then give us a much better idea of class entries. One possibility if the Novice class is very large would be to treat it like fun runs. 1/2 run, 1/2 work and switch, by themselves before the first afternoon run group. Or maybe do the 1/2 and 1/2 over the first two groups after lunch. With pre-registration shouldn't be too hard. If we use the AXWare online registration system, it allows for pre-reg work assignments, including chiefs, and will show numbers for run and work groups. You can specify how many work stations and limit the number of people per station. The software has a tag for Novices but I haven't really looked at what that allows us to do.

The one issue with points for Novices is how to handle car numbers. Do you make them join a club? To track them, they all need a "permenant" number. Our software, and most all others, are based on numbers, not names. I have no idea how many distinct novices we get a year, but it could be a lot. Since the system supports it, we can obvisouly go to 4 digit numbers as one option. Or are we only considering people who "declare" themselves as competing in Novice for points and if so would it be retro-active to the first time they competed or only from when they make the decision or ?.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Mike Simanyi »

A couple suggestions:

1. Distribute novices as evenly as possible into the last run group before lunch and the two run groups after lunch, working as appropriate. This minimizes the likelihood of 40 novices distressing our schedule.
2. Two extra drops would allow rookies to pick up in late Spring or early Summer and still be in the hunt.
3. We have to anticipate a tie... and determine a tie breaker. This could involve a trophy dash car, a K1 challenge or almost anything else. If we don't want to scare them away, I recommend the tie breaker *not* include driving Bill's car. ;)

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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Doug Teulie »

You should change the name of this thread to “Thoughts” or “PROPOSED CHANGES” or add a "?"
It looks like a real final change has been made.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Rick Brown »

Mike Simanyi wrote:A couple suggestions:

1. Distribute novices as evenly as possible into the last run group before lunch and the two run groups after lunch, working as appropriate. This minimizes the likelihood of 40 novices distressing our schedule.

Mike
You do that and you might as well stay with the way it is and have them run with their class. I also don't really think it's that hard to get an instructor in the first group. With a little planning you have an assigned instructor or two and let them run the in the multi driver lane and delay the novices runs slightly. Been done, worked OK as far as I know.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Christine Grice »

Rick Brown wrote:
Mike Simanyi wrote:A couple suggestions:

1. Distribute novices as evenly as possible into the last run group before lunch and the two run groups after lunch, working as appropriate. This minimizes the likelihood of 40 novices distressing our schedule.

Mike
You do that and you might as well stay with the way it is and have them run with their class. I also don't really think it's that hard to get an instructor in the first group. With a little planning you have an assigned instructor or two and let them run the in the multi driver lane and delay the novices runs slightly. Been done, worked OK as far as I know.
The rationale behind putting them after lunch is because I wanted to give them a chance to walk as a group during lunch and allow them plenty of time to watch and learn.

I find that if someone, even experienced people who know what they are doing, runs in the first group, there is very little time to walk course, prepare the car, register, sign up for work.... And that coming from the perspective that I know what I am doing and have multiple people running the same car to help with preperations.

Giving novices a chance to get accustomed to the procedures is a big part to making people feel welcomed as oppoed to rushed and confused.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Leonard Cachola »

Christine Berry wrote:
Rick Brown wrote:
Mike Simanyi wrote:A couple suggestions:

1. Distribute novices as evenly as possible into the last run group before lunch and the two run groups after lunch, working as appropriate. This minimizes the likelihood of 40 novices distressing our schedule.

Mike
You do that and you might as well stay with the way it is and have them run with their class. I also don't really think it's that hard to get an instructor in the first group. With a little planning you have an assigned instructor or two and let them run the in the multi driver lane and delay the novices runs slightly. Been done, worked OK as far as I know.
The rationale behind putting them after lunch is because I wanted to give them a chance to walk as a group during lunch and allow them plenty of time to watch and learn.
One problem I can already see is if we have a large novice class like we did at the last event - 26, if I remember right. If we get another large group like that and more than a handful of them need instructors, we might have a problem.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Christine Grice »

Novice Participation numbers for the last two years:

2007
Jan - 12
Mar - 12
Apr - 4
Apr - 10
May - 6
June - 14
July - 4
Aug - 9
Sep - 4
Nov - 5
Nov - 1
Dec - 9

2008
Jan - 10
Feb - 3
Apr - 4
May - 13
June - 11
Aug - 12
Sept - 26

So other than this last event, the numbers for Novice have been pretty consistant. What happened at this last event?
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Doug Teulie »

Christine Berry wrote:Novice Participation numbers for the last two years: What happened at this last event?
We advertised the Sept event on other message boards.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Christine Grice »

Doug Teulie wrote:
Christine Berry wrote:Novice Participation numbers for the last two years: What happened at this last event?
We advertised the Sept event on other message boards.
Ok, so following logic here.... Maybe the first step to bringing in new people is to advetise on other message boards for every event.....

darn this logic stuff :D
Last edited by Christine Grice on Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Robert Puertas »

Honestly, if you make CSM a street tire class, it becomes the perfect novice catch-all.
What nationally competitive driver is really going to build a car to go win CSM? It's not going to happen.
Sure, Tom Berry could break the Evo and bring out a supercharged Miata, or Randy could come up with street tires on the Noble, but this would not be something that would happen every event. It would be the exception to the rule. I think you'd see all of the current CSM guys except for maybe Steve Abbot, and you'd see a bunch of new people, and the occasional random fast car & driver.
OTOH, having a default class to send new people to where they are not going to get eaten alive could really boost retention.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Doug Teulie »

Christine Berry wrote:
Doug Teulie wrote:
Christine Berry wrote:Novice Participation numbers for the last two years: What happened at this last event?
We advertised the Sept event on other message boards.
Ok, so following logic here.... Maybe the first step to bringing in new people is to advetise on other message boards for every event.....
darn this logic stuff :D

Targeted advertising works well.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Leonard Cachola »

Robert Puertas wrote: OTOH, having a default class to send new people to where they are not going to get eaten alive could really boost retention.
I like the idea that this would be a year-long class instead of the way it currently is where you trophy and you're booted out. I think there are quite a few novices who wouldn't mind competing against other novices their first year of autocrossing - that way they can gauge how well they are doing against other novices instead of getting frustrated in the open classes. As for the computer/team issue, would it be possible to simply have the Novice class not count for club points at all, but only toward a 'Rookie of the Year' award? I like the idea of reserving four-digit numbers for novices who haven't signed up for a points card - makes 'em easier to spot.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Glenn Duensing »

Christine Berry wrote:
Rick Brown wrote:
Mike Simanyi wrote:A couple suggestions:

1. Distribute novices as evenly as possible into the last run group before lunch and the two run groups after lunch, working as appropriate. This minimizes the likelihood of 40 novices distressing our schedule.

Mike
You do that and you might as well stay with the way it is and have them run with their class. I also don't really think it's that hard to get an instructor in the first group. With a little planning you have an assigned instructor or two and let them run the in the multi driver lane and delay the novices runs slightly. Been done, worked OK as far as I know.
The rationale behind putting them after lunch is because I wanted to give them a chance to walk as a group during lunch and allow them plenty of time to watch and learn.

I find that if someone, even experienced people who know what they are doing, runs in the first group, there is very little time to walk course, prepare the car, register, sign up for work.... And that coming from the perspective that I know what I am doing and have multiple people running the same car to help with preperations.

Giving novices a chance to get accustomed to the procedures is a big part to making people feel welcomed as oppoed to rushed and confused.
You still can give a course walk in the morning and at lunch. We did that at one time and this still gives them time to get ready.
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Re: Novice class changes for 2009

Post by Christine Grice »

I agree, thats why it is part of section e in my proposed rules.

My point is that maybe you and I can memorize a course in two walks, maybe one. But how is is a bad thing to let novices have as much time as possible to walk course, say get three or four walks in.
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