Historic class discussion

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Don Green
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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby Don Green » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:22 pm

Craig, Thanks for your thoughts. It had occurred to me that someone running an old car with 12 inch wheels might want to do something similar. I know I would have no objections tweaking the proposal to allow that, and I doubt the other competitors would have any objections.

BTW, my CRX runs 13x5 wheels, and 14x5 wheels from other early CRXs and Civics are readily available. Of course 14x5.5 would be even better, but we're not looking for performance advantages here other than better street tire compounds. And it's a lot easier to make or adapt other wheels than it is to make tires! Thanks again, Don

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Jayson Woodruff
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Re: Historic 2 Rules Addendum

Postby Jayson Woodruff » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:11 pm

There used to be an SCCA stock class allowance that was similar to this for the same reasons you quoted (except they were more concered about R-comp availibility). You might as well blanket it the same way the SCCA did by saying "Cars with less than 14" rims are allowed to use 14" rims of the same width as stock". That'll cover your 12's and odd ball 10's and give the same allowance to those wanting to run R-comps.

Jay W

Don Green wrote:Rick,
"For stock class vehicles running stock tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with 13 inch wheels may run 14 inch wheels of the same width and plus/minus ¼ inch offset."

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Craig Naylor
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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby Craig Naylor » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:20 pm

Jayson, I was thinking the same thing, but could not reference it in the current rule book. I had to go back to the 2002 rule book to find it. Admittedly I have not kept every yrs rule book, and I "shared" a few for which my book case does not hold, but the verbiage is gone by the 2005 book.

13.4 ...Vehicles originally equipped only with 12 inch diameter wheels, may use 13-inc diameter wheels of the same width as standard and offset within +/- 0.25 inch of standard...

So apparently we've dated ourselves by remembering this old rule. It's interesting it only addressed 12" rims, and not the 10's some mini's had.

Don, I didn't realize there were any 14x5's. I would go with that as a max upgrade then. Again trying to address the tire availability vs. preformance upgrade.

Based upon the old SCCA wording, and your proposal above...

Obviously this would be listed under Historic rules, as it would not apply to "normal" stock classes. That would be a National thing to change, were only addressing a local class.
"For stock class vehicles running street tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5", may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5", which ever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."

Don Green
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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby Don Green » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:45 pm

Rules Committee:

Since no one has given any more feedback on this subject in the past few weeks, we (David Barrish and I) move that we go with this final wording for the Historic classes:

"For stock class vehicles running street tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5 inches", may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5 inches, whichever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."

So when can we apply this? This weekend?

Thanks, Don and David

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Rick Brown
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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby Rick Brown » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:01 pm

Don Green wrote:Rules Committee:

Since no one has given any more feedback on this subject in the past few weeks, we (David Barrish and I) move that we go with this final wording for the Historic classes:

"For stock class vehicles running street tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5 inches", may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5 inches, whichever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."

So when can we apply this? This weekend?

Thanks, Don and David

There is no more Rules Committee, only a person who maintains the Rules. I'll forward to Mike to get it on tomorrow night's meeting agenda.
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Craig Naylor
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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby Craig Naylor » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:42 am

Don Green wrote: we (David Barrish and I) move that we go with this final wording for the Historic classes:

"For stock class vehicles running street tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5 inches", may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5 inches, whichever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."
Thanks, Don and David


Don, I know I wrote the above.... our rule book is so verbose, one of my goals is to reduce the wording, and keep all meanings. I would suggest the following as the final wording with that in mind.

"For stock class vehicles running "ST/(S)" legal tires: Vehicles originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5 inches, may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5 inches, whichever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."

This way it is ties to what ever is legal in ST / STS, so we don't have to alter this rule if changes happen in the future as to what defines "street tire" legal tread-wear.

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Robert Puertas
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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby Robert Puertas » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:34 am

Using the wording "ST/(S)" seems to imply they must meet the tire size limitations of those classes. Was that the intention? Or are you just wanting to capture the tread wear rating and the exclusion list?

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John Fendel
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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby John Fendel » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:03 pm

This way it is ties to what ever is legal in ST / STS, so we don't have to alter this rule if changes happen in the future as to what defines "street tire" legal tread-wear.

It is probably a good itea to keep the written rule as general as possible. As a reference point, I went out the the NMRA drags a week or so ago to see what they were putting on. Along with the drag racing, car show and vendor displays, they also had their own version of an autocross. Lots of old and new American muscle cars were running it. They use a minimum 180 tread wear index. It makes it easy for them to come compete with us, but not so convenient for us to run with them.
Last edited by John Fendel on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ken Lord
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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby Ken Lord » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:56 am

Don Green wrote:Rules Committee:

Since no one has given any more feedback on this subject in the past few weeks, we (David Barrish and I) move that we go with this final wording for the Historic classes:

"For stock class vehicles running street tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5 inches", may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5 inches, whichever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."

So when can we apply this? This weekend?

Thanks, Don and David


Don, David and others -

The rule as written above passed last night. It will go into effect January 2012.

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Art Rinner
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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby Art Rinner » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:44 am

If I read this right I will be able to drive my 75 280Z in Historic with an STR Index?

You may get a bunch of Z's now.
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Sebastian Rios
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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby Sebastian Rios » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:03 am

I don't thinks so Art, besides the proposed wheel allowance, the cars would have to be otherwise stock legal.

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Art Rinner
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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby Art Rinner » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:03 pm

Sebastian Rios wrote:I don't thinks so Art, besides the proposed wheel allowance, the cars would have to be otherwise stock legal.

Historic 2 is only for stock cars?
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David Barrish
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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby David Barrish » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:22 pm

No, the change is for cars running in the "stock class" that need to move up to 14 inch rims.

Please, bring out the Z's.

Ken, Thank you for your help moving this thru the system.

David

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Re: Historic class discussion

Postby David Barrish » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:15 pm

This thread has been "viewed", now over 13,000 times. Who is mining this thing.


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