Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

If you're new to autocross, new to the forum or need a hand with what class you should be in, ask for help here.

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Steve Alexander
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

Ok, thanks for that. As usual, I pay the price for building things they way I want them, rather than buying from a manufacturer. Hypothetically, if my car was produced as is, by a car manufacturer, I could run it in stock class, right? Would a Formula one car compete in A Modified, or a lower class? I hadn't thought about removing the front firewall in the Mid engine car; is that what puts it in A mod, or puting the engine in the back? There are a ton of rear mounted bike engined Minis running around. it is not a new Idea at all, in fact there are several with two Bike engines in back. Check out "bike engined Mini" on you-tube. There are even a few under 900 pounds. Z-cars in the UK produces a full carbon bodied Mini for Bike engines, You can view one with 450 HP that does zero to 60 in 2.8 seconds or less.
This is the only forum that I have the posting problem with. it doesn't lock up my whole computer, just this page. I have to keep it on long enough for the post to go through....15-20 min.
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Craig Naylor
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Craig Naylor »

Steve Alexander wrote:The SD guys put me in SUX; No one here has mentioned that class yet?
SD does not have a class called SUX.

They do have a class called SU (Street Unlimited). It's a run what you brung class. Their definition in the San Diego supplemental rule book:
5.2 STREET UNLIMITED
Any vehicles running on DOT approved street tires may compete in this San Diego Region class.

After you took your class runs, you may have payed for a second set of runs, called X runs. As such an X would be placed upon your car near your class, to designate the e"x"tra runs you were taking in addition to your class runs. As such for those X runs, you would have your class "SU" and an additional X on your car.

In LA we also have a run what you brung class. We call it CSM (or California Street Mod) Our definition in our supplemental rule book:
APPENDIX A
CALIFORNIA STREET MODIFIED (CSM):
Vehicles eligible for CSM must be capable of being licensed for street use in California, shall be
run on DOT approved tires and must meet all SCCA Solo Safety requirements.

We also have a second class called which restricts one to 140 tread wear tires, but is otherwise the same:
CALIFORNIA STREET TOURING (CST):
Vehicles eligible for CST must comply with the rules of CSM, with the exception that all of the
tires mounted on the car must have a TREADWEAR number of 140 or higher molded by the
manufacturer on the sidewall.

Each region has ever so slightly differently worded rules. It is true, theirs is a truly unlimited class, ours includes the "capable of license" phrase. But for all intense purposes the classes are (unless you showed up in SD with a formula 1 car, or some other purpose built race car)the same, just worded differently.

Hope this helps. Oh, almost forgot, LA also offers X runs, only difference we don't make you work a second work group for them.
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by John Fendel »

It seems that if it takes longer than about 15 minutes to write a post, by the time I am finished and have proof read it, etc, then hit the submit button, the post will not process for as long as twenty minutes or more, in the mean time, the window just locks up ...
You might try writing the post text in Word first, then copy and paste it into the post. That way you can do your composing in the word processing program and not have the forum window time out while you are composing and editing. You will also have the Word copy if there is a problem with your internet browser.
Have you read the Who We Are posting in the Newbie Guide box on the http://www.Solo2.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; site? It might answer some of your basic questions about how the CSCC Solo organization is organized and run. Also come to any of our events and talk to the older looking competitors or the people in tech or registration. We are a pretty friendly bunch and try to help answer any questions.
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Steve Alexander
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

Nope, didn't pay for extra runs. had to put the X on the car from the beginning. rode along with an instructor driving my car (womans national champ FWD), to show me where the course went....like I would remember a single turn. After that she rode with me while driving my 4 runs and pointed where to go; Couldn't see the course well enough to make good judgments, and DNFed every run; exasperating. That's a lot of money to spend just to spin donuts in a parking lot.
I wish they would mark the courses like we did in the 60s with white lines. Our club hosts the Mini-West convention every 4 to 6 years here in Orange county, and I have been the course designer the last two events; We used El Toro last time, in 2008, and I always pile up rock salt pretty thick, so you can pretty much see the entire course from the start line. We get very few DNFs and I get a lot of compliments on the course. A broom followed by a leaf blower cleans it up pretty quick.
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Rick Brown
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Rick Brown »

Steve Alexander wrote:Nope, didn't pay for extra runs. had to put the X on the car from the beginning. rode along with an instructor driving my car (womans national champ FWD), to show me where the course went....like I would remember a single turn. After that she rode with me while driving my 4 runs and pointed where to go; Couldn't see the course well enough to make good judgments, and DNFed every run; exasperating. That's a lot of money to spend just to spin donuts in a parking lot.
I wish they would mark the courses like we did in the 60s with white lines. Our club hosts the Mini-West convention every 4 to 6 years here in Orange county, and I have been the course designer the last two events; We used El Toro last time, in 2008, and I always pile up rock salt pretty thick, so you can pretty much see the entire course from the start line. We get very few DNFs and I get a lot of compliments on the course. A broom followed by a leaf blower cleans it up pretty quick.
We do line our courses at El Toro and AutoClub Speedway. And we don't have to remove it afterwards. Qualcomm doesn't want them marking their lot. But it's a learned skill like any other and why some people make multiple course walks and even make course maps as they go to study before they run. Sometimes it's just a matter of slowing down for 1 run to find your way and then adding speed back in.
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Steve Alexander
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

Somebody else told me that too, but I didn't see any lines at El Toro last time. Maybe they were farther out on the course, past where I could see from the grid. Everyone tells me the same thing re finding the course; "slow down", "Walk the course" "Memorize it". It doesn't work for me and never has. At Qualcom, I couldn't see where the course went while I was walking; how much slower can you go than that? Memorizing is out of the question, I have lived in the same house for 30 years and been lost a block away from my house.....I drive past my house sometimes on the way home.....I am not able to memorize those kinds of things; you have to know where you are first, for that to work, and I rarely know where I am on the course. I also have zero sense of direction. I read street names and addresses to find my way. I can follow a continuous line, but a dotted line,(cones), often confuse me. I do ok on streets that have curbs or where you can see the edge of the pavement, and on the highway with lane lines, but sometimes when the lines disapear for any distance, I panic and head for the edge. I have the same problem on a race track with blind corners; no matter how many laps I have made, I don't know if I am going to go right or left until I can see the turn. I need visible lines or edges to follow! This is why I rarely get a clean run on an autocross course, and when I do, my time is bottom of the barrel. most people with this kind of deficiency stay the hell away from anything fast, but unfortunately, I have a need for speed. I should take the passenger seat out, because no one that knows me will ride in the car. :unimpressed:
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Rick Brown
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Rick Brown »

A key skill in autocross is looking ahead. You need to be looking at the next element and know where you need to be positioning your car - it's too late for the element you are in. You have to be able to look at any group of cones and identify the few key ones that define where you need to drive and ignore the rest. I don't memorize well at all, and it's not supposed to be required for autocross. Nothing beats experience, I have driven courses that I didn't get to walk but have enough experience to be able to identify where to go pretty quickly. Hopefully you can figure out something that works for you.
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Mike Simanyi
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Mike Simanyi »

Steve Alexander wrote:Somebody else told me that too, but I didn't see any lines at El Toro last time.
If you're talking about the most recent event, it wasn't lined due to the weather.

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Steve Alexander
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

Ah yes, it did rain that Saturday. I went Sunday. I couldn't believe anyone would want to run on a wet course. I'll see if I can post a picture:
wheel up, LSD workin.jpg
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Anthony Munoz
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Anthony Munoz »

Nice ride. There used to be a nicely prepared Mini that was nationally competitive in our club. Hardly see it anymore (saw it once or twice last year) after being absent for a looooong time.
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Curt Thompson
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Curt Thompson »

Before my first autocross this past March, I spent some time "practicing" with a computer game called "Live for Speed." I think it helped a great deal at least to get used to which side of the cone to drive around and what turns and slaloms look like from a first-person driving perspective. I'm not sure if the autocross track is open in the free version, but I know that it is open with the cheapest software license (called "S1"). I think it costs something like $20 USD.

I had to do my first ever run alone (because the instructor was busy helping another novice), but I didn't have much problem navigating the track after much practice with the game. Even on my first run, I never really "got lost," though I did miss one pivot gate toward the end. The instructor pointed it out for me on the next run and all was cool after that.

I honestly think a lot can be learned from 'realistic' racing games like Gran Turismo, Forza, iRacing, and Live For Speed. Naturally, things are quite different in an actual car but at least you can get some theory, especially from the licensing tests in GT and LFS. Who knows, you might even find your sense of direction improving... or you can practice that with games like "Grand Theft Auto."

(For the record, I don't work for and haven't bought stock or anything in any racing games, including this one)
Live For Speed: http://www.lfs.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Extra LFS AX Layouts: http://www.lfsforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=27" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I tried to never do the same layout more than twice in a row so I'd have to constantly learn the course on the fly. I can't say for sure that it will help you, but I am under the impression that it helped me. =)

OR you could just stick to ovals, hehe. ;)
Steve Alexander wrote:Somebody else told me that too, but I didn't see any lines at El Toro last time. Maybe they were farther out on the course, past where I could see from the grid. Everyone tells me the same thing re finding the course; "slow down", "Walk the course" "Memorize it". It doesn't work for me and never has. At Qualcom, I couldn't see where the course went while I was walking; how much slower can you go than that? Memorizing is out of the question, I have lived in the same house for 30 years and been lost a block away from my house.....I drive past my house sometimes on the way home.....I am not able to memorize those kinds of things; you have to know where you are first, for that to work, and I rarely know where I am on the course. I also have zero sense of direction. I read street names and addresses to find my way. I can follow a continuous line, but a dotted line,(cones), often confuse me. I do ok on streets that have curbs or where you can see the edge of the pavement, and on the highway with lane lines, but sometimes when the lines disapear for any distance, I panic and head for the edge. I have the same problem on a race track with blind corners; no matter how many laps I have made, I don't know if I am going to go right or left until I can see the turn. I need visible lines or edges to follow! This is why I rarely get a clean run on an autocross course, and when I do, my time is bottom of the barrel. most people with this kind of deficiency stay the hell away from anything fast, but unfortunately, I have a need for speed. I should take the passenger seat out, because no one that knows me will ride in the car. :unimpressed:
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Leonard Cachola
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Leonard Cachola »

Curt Thompson wrote: I honestly think a lot can be learned from 'realistic' racing games like Gran Turismo, Forza, iRacing, and Live For Speed. Naturally, things are quite different in an actual car but at least you can get some theory, especially from the licensing tests in GT and LFS. Who knows, you might even find your sense of direction improving... or you can practice that with games like "Grand Theft Auto."

(For the record, I don't work for and haven't bought stock or anything in any racing games, including this one)
Live For Speed: http://www.lfs.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Extra LFS AX Layouts: http://www.lfsforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=27" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There are also Simbin's Race 07 and GTR2 (for Windows PCs) where an online user uploaded custom maps based on real autocross courses - several from previous SCCA Nationals.

Just look for 'Autocross' in Downloads/Tracks section of each respective game:
GTR2: http://www.nogripracing.com/files.php?subcat=46
Race 07/Race On: http://www.nogripracing.com/files.php?subcat=61

The 'Autocross Set' series is an early effort and some cones are virtual invisible walls when you crash into them. Also, there are tire tracks set up so you can find your way. The 'Autocross Hardcore' series has no tire tracks and I don't remember hitting any invisible walls. In both sets, there are no cone penalties. However, your timing doesn't stop until you cross the finish/start line. Also, any cones knocked down don't reset until you quit out of the track and restart. Still, you get slaloms, gates, pointer cones... the whole works... all on real SCCA courses. There was one fantasy autocross course that's several minutes long for those of you who like that sort of thing.
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Steve Alexander
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

Im no good at video games; I tried Pack-Man once at an arcade, and didn't last 10 seconds. My friend advised me to stick with Solitair or Monopoly.
I have a co-driver lined up for next event.
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John Fendel
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by John Fendel »

Everyone tells me the same thing re finding the course; "slow down", "Walk the course" "Memorize it". It doesn't work for me and never has. At Qualcom, I couldn't see where the course went while I was walking; how much slower can you go than that? Memorizing is out of the question,...
CASOC has posted a course map at registration or on the motor home at many of its last events and I expect to post one for this event. You might want to draw a copy the map and take it with you when you do your course walk. You can then use it as a reference when looking at where you are on the course. This may help you visualize the course between runs.
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Kurt Rahn
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Kurt Rahn »

John Fendel wrote:
Everyone tells me the same thing re finding the course; "slow down", "Walk the course" "Memorize it". It doesn't work for me and never has. At Qualcom, I couldn't see where the course went while I was walking; how much slower can you go than that? Memorizing is out of the question,...
CASOC has posted a course map at registration or on the motor home at many of its last events and I expect to post one for this event. You might want to draw a copy the map and take it with you when you do your course walk. You can then use it as a reference when looking at where you are on the course. This may help you visualize the course between runs.
There will be course maps available for both the practice and Autocross Sunday courses.
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Doug Kott
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Doug Kott »

The course reading does get easier with time. I used to run with PCA in San Diego, and the courses were so walled in with cones, you couldn't possibly make a mistake (reading the course, that is!!). SCCA-style was an adjustment.

There's really only four or five different elements and variations on those elements, and eventually you streamline your thinking as you walk the course...."walom, high-speed offset, tight turnaround, slalom with decreasing spacing, Chicago box, etc."

It's key to identify pinch points where you need to brake, and critical corners leading into faster sections.
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Mako Koiwai
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Mako Koiwai »

If you have a smart phone, you could try taking a snap shot of each element and add a voice commentary with notes ... and then review it while sitting in your car in the paddock/grid.

I use to DQ a lot of runs in the beginning, but after a while it becomes much easier. Just try to memorize key cones and features. Our sparse courses are easier to memorize IMO, and drive, because there is less clutter.

In the FR-S Challenge at the last event, one National Champ beat another Champ apparently, even though he had never walked the course. That's why they're called Aliens!

I once did a Time Lapse of a course walk: http://youtu.be/MNYTl5UKDnc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Jeff Stuart
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Jeff Stuart »

Mako Koiwai wrote:I once did a Time Lapse of a course walk: http://youtu.be/MNYTl5UKDnc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ha! I guessed the event before reading the video description. That course was very memorable due to its length, and because that was also my first event in the RX-8 :D
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Mike Simanyi
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Mike Simanyi »

That was "sweeper madness", courtesy of Jeff Keisel's prior S.D. Tour course. I liked that challenge so much that I worked hard to put four into the Divisional course.
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

You guys think I'm exagerating; I appreciate your suggestions; nothing I haven't tried really, except the Cell phone thing....don't know how to operate one; my phone has a round dial with holes for your finger & plugs into the wall. I was dropped on my head when I was little; seroiusly, I don't memorize things, but figure them out as I go, over and over again. I am not new to Autocross; got hundreds of runs in when I had Corvettes in the 60s/70s. had the same issues then, but worse now that I am old; and I suspect that I will probably loose my Drivers license before much longer, that is if I don't go over the side first. See you in a couple weeks.
PS, At Qualcom I nearly died shagging cones during my work session...I can't run or walk very fast. Is there another job I can do that does not require running?
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John Fendel
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by John Fendel »

You could try signing up for time slips, pre-grid, gate (if you have a full SCCA membership), tech (I am still looking for one more person on Sunday), registration or one of the positions in the motor home (announcer, timing comperter operator or master radio).
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Mako Koiwai
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Mako Koiwai »

The Safety Steward shouldn't let you "nearly die" shagging cone. Talk to the Event Chair if the Worker Chief can't seem to help
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Rick Brown
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Rick Brown »

John Fendel wrote:............... or one of the positions in the motor home (announcer, timing compurter operator or master radio).
Uh, no. We generally don't take someone for those jobs without knowing their skills in advance. If someone is interested in any of those jobs, come talk to me or Christine first please.
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

No, I wouldn't sign up for the Motor home jobs until I know the drill. Slips or grid is OK. Course setup/tear down works too. I don't mind a little work, just not to spry these days. I was only planning Saturday attendance, but might be able to do some work Sunday, if you're short. I live near by.
Not sure if I will be joining SCCA yet; I like the HPD events at Willow too, but not sure if I can afford to keep tires on my car until I see how long the new slicks last, plus it is a long drive; sleeping overnight in the car, no trailer in case of break downs, etc. I will probably wind up doing a little bit of both, and just buy weekend passes for the Solo events.
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

Now the SSS is supposed to monitor every course worker's state of health? Please stop Mako. Please. :roll:
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