Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

If you're new to autocross, new to the forum or need a hand with what class you should be in, ask for help here.

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Craig Naylor
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Craig Naylor »

Steve Alexander wrote:"War and peace" is a good analogy for the huge amount of reading one must do, to find all the answers, and I dare say, that few of the competitors have absorbed it all. I am starting to see that this operates kind of like the California DMV; what answers you get, depends on who you ask, and the trick being to find the right person, so you get the answer you want. The IRS is like that too....An outgrowth of complexity and ever changing rules.
Steve, while it may seem a tome of words, each piece is provided with the intent of helping newbies like yourself. Most of us started with no prior knowledge, or information, we showed up and figured it out for ourselves. Many volunteer hours were spent by numerous members to provide all the info you've read.

To be quite blunt, questions are good, but you continue to attack just about everything about our sport.
You've comparing us to the IRS, and DMV;
stating you can't work (this is an all volunteer organization with a work requirement),
can't drive (yet it's all about driving)
and continually compare us to some prior organization you once belonged to, negatively; etc etc.

To put it simple, it's not the 1960's anymore, and this is a different club than you once belonged. We welcome all, including you (still), but no one likes party poopers.
Steve Alexander
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

You know, I think You are absolutely right, except for the "attacking" part; I am exasperated. This is sounding more and more like it is not for me. It is hard to understand the program, my car is all wrong for it and I am not able to do it physically. All I have going for me is the desire to drive as fast as I want, without having to wory about the Traffic Nazis; I can do that at Willow, with "Speed Ventures", "Extreeme Speed", etc; sign up on-line with paypal, no course work required, few rules, no car clasification, use any car number I want, (Mine is 1/2 which is not acceptable for solo), easy to see where the course goes and it never changes, and I can drive a lot faster, using all of my gears. The only down side is the greater expense per weekend, and it is 100 miles to get there, so I have to drive out the previous night, sleep in my car, and worry about getting home if my car breaks.
I am already signed up and paid for Saturday, maybe I will let my co-driver do all the driving and working, and I will just watch....That is if I am allowed to do that, having paid for only myself. If not please let me know, so I can request a refund.
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Mako Koiwai
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Mako Koiwai »

Take rides! With your co-driver and everyone with an open passenger seat. Make sure u jump into my Silver Vette with the GoPro decal on front. My gal and I do both track days and AX. She likes track for the same reasons u do. I find it difficult to concentrate for an entire track session and prefer the flat out burst of AX. I try to always get a work assignment that I can reserve ahead of time to make sure it's something I'm comfortable with.
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Don Salyers
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Don Salyers »

Steve, I am as old or older than you, and have returned to autocross after a few years (40) not doing any motorsports. Unlike you, I spent two different weekends watchng, riding, and reading before my first event in Jan of 2006. I am not an engineer just a retired school teacher, but, when I started I knew what class my car belonged in and what modifications where allowed for that class and the next higher prep class. I had joined SCCA and bought my number for the year.

Being a retired school teacher/coach I wanted to compete in SCCA classes not local classes because the structure is important to me. As an engineer, I would have probably followed a different route, one of building the fastest Prepared/Modified car possible. But it still would fit into a chosen SCCA class.

Your car is a DMod car as it sits, here are the rules:

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/ass ... _March.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

go to page 137 and read just the first few pages.

Next Saturday, come and see me. Old guy with little red British sport car......until then spend a bit of time reading the rules.

Don
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Rick Brown
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Rick Brown »

Steve Alexander wrote: I am already signed up and paid for Saturday, maybe I will let my co-driver do all the driving and working, and I will just watch....That is if I am allowed to do that, having paid for only myself. If not please let me know, so I can request a refund.
When you have a shared entry, only one work assignment is required, doesn't matter who. Also, don't know if it was already mentioned, but The Cal Poly Pomona FSAE team who provid food at many of our events, also offer workers for a nominal donation to help out those who can't or don't want to work.
Since light is faster than sound...many people look bright until they speak...
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Craig Naylor
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Craig Naylor »

Steve Alexander wrote:You know, I think You are absolutely right, except for the "attacking" part; I am exasperated. This is sounding more and more like it is not for me. It is hard to understand the program, my car is all wrong for it and I am not able to do it physically. All I have going for me is the desire to drive as fast as I want, without having to worry about the Traffic Nazis;
Hi Steve,
Your over thinking the whole thing, (err go the exasperation, and nit picking of the program), and you've talked yourself into not having FUN.

Probably 80% of us don't have the "right" car, those that do, probably have tweaking to do.... etc, etc. Admittedly, it's a little more difficult to figure out where one's car fits when it's heavily modded, vs. the person who shows up in a stock car, the first time out. That's why we have the catch all class.

I understand the Engineer side of you. I'm a perfectionist myself in most of life, that's why I enjoy participating in Autocross. I can't afford in $, time, or stress, being a perfectionist out here. I sometimes have to remind myself, I'm doing this as a stress reliever, and not allow the competition side to create another source of stress. One this note, I've always had an under-preforming car for what ever class, which is typically under prepared too. Even when I've borrowed cars, I've attempted to always play that into the equation. While that might cause frustration for some, for me it helps keep me in check, my goal is FUN!

Why? Because I'm out to have fun, both driving and hang'in with friends. If I had something completely, or nearly competitive, it probably wouldn't be fun anymore.

As a kid, did you pick up a rulebook, and learn how to play (fill in the blank... Soccer, Baseball, Kickball, TAG????, Piano, etc) NO, you showed up, someone told you basics, and the details were learned as you played, as you became more proficient you learned more rules, started strategy etc.

So leave that engineer side at home, put the tomes down, show up on Saturday, relax a little, and PLAY.
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Doug Kott
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Doug Kott »

Hey Steve,

Maybe you'd want to run in the Historic class, with a D Mod index? That might be another option. I've often thought (daydreamed, maybe?) of getting an original Mini and having some fun in Historic.

Yes, it's difficult to figure out "the drill" at first. And each practice can be set up a bit different, depending on the preferences of the club that puts it on. I say just roll with it, ask a lot of questions, and by the third event or so, it'll all make sense.

As for work assignments, you can hire out a Cal Poly lad, or if your mobility is limited, you might get an assignment that doesn't require running, standing, etc., like handing out timing slips after a run. The work part can involve some rewarding interaction with the club...or grief, or boredom. But as my old boss used to say, it's all part of life's rich pageantry.
Steve Alexander
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

I checked out the D mod rules last night,(up till 3 AM), looks like my car doesn't meet the safety related requirements, (about 6 items). It is a street car after all. I will not put a roll bar in it, for weight reasons; I just bought a 950$ Lithium-Ion starter battery, (3 pounds), On my quest for "lightness". Titanium or carbon brake rotors are next. I see Beryllium is excluded in Mod classes, but who would know?
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Curt Thompson
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Curt Thompson »

Craig Naylor wrote:
Steve Alexander wrote:You know, I think You are absolutely right, except for the "attacking" part; I am exasperated. This is sounding more and more like it is not for me. It is hard to understand the program, my car is all wrong for it and I am not able to do it physically. All I have going for me is the desire to drive as fast as I want, without having to worry about the Traffic Nazis;
Hi Steve,
Your over thinking the whole thing, (err go the exasperation, and nit picking of the program), and you've talked yourself into not having FUN.

Probably 80% of us don't have the "right" car, those that do, probably have tweaking to do.... etc, etc. Admittedly, it's a little more difficult to figure out where one's car fits when it's heavily modded, vs. the person who shows up in a stock car, the first time out. That's why we have the catch all class.
Craig Naylor wrote:So leave that engineer side at home, put the tomes down, show up on Saturday, relax a little, and PLAY.
I would probably just ask the tech inspector(s) at the event how to class the car. Maybe you'll forget to tell them something that would change the class, but if you're not actually competing and just want to zip around the track, who cares if your car isn't classed correctly? Ask for "Time Only" if you want to remove your numbers from the official run times, that way -nobody- should care how your car is classed since it won't affect them. Then you can forget about all those rules and focus on having fun. It occurs to me now that the Saturday TEST/TUNE might not count for official run times anyway. In that case, it matters even less how your car is classed.

(I hope that info is correct, I've only been to one AX event so far so I don't know much, but I did learn that the people at the event are friendly and helpful. I got in the wrong line to register, didn't know my car class, didn't have tape to stick on the numbers, didn't pre-register, was late for the novice course walk and almost late for everything else and still everybody was fairly patient and understanding when I inevitably had to ask what next to do and where next to go).
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Steve Ekstrand
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

[quote="Steve Alexander"The next slowest time was a stock-class Yaris driven by a female; she beat me by over 8 seconds :oops: Pitiful[/quote]


Wow... You got beaten by a female. I'd be more concerned how some of our "females" might take that as a flame to female drivers. Especially since we probably have more female national champions in our region than any other in the country.

My advice straight out.... Find a nice cars & coffee event, bring a folding chair. Talk about the old days. Our events are never going to take you to that happy spot.
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Steve Alexander
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

Steve E, I think you entirely missed my point......which really had nothing to do with women drivers. Never attended a Cars/Coffee show......shows are ok, but after a couple hundred of them...............not.
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Mako Koiwai
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Mako Koiwai »

I think it will be cool to see how your co-driver does with your car. I've always wanted to be a Car/Team Owner ... and just watch someone else do the work. :D

(Did you see my message about getting rides on Saturday, including with me/Silver GoPro Z06. I put on a pretty good demonstration of what's been called Ham Fisted driving!) :gpower:
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Will Kalman
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Will Kalman »

Steve Alexander wrote:I checked out the D mod rules last night,(up till 3 AM), looks like my car doesn't meet the safety related requirements, (about 6 items). It is a street car after all. I will not put a roll bar in it, for weight reasons; I just bought a 950$ Lithium-Ion starter battery, (3 pounds), On my quest for "lightness". Titanium or carbon brake rotors are next. I see Beryllium is excluded in Mod classes, but who would know?
JUST COME OUT AND DRIVE AND HAVE FUN. Seriously. Put down the keyboard.

You're so far away from needing to dive into the national rules there's just no point. Everyone's telling you this, everyone's been an autocross novice. There's only one person in disagreement - you.

Would you show up for golf with a hockey stick and tell them that their rules are wrong?
Steve Alexander
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

Mako, yes, I saw your offer, thanks; I appreciate it and hope to take you up on it. Sounds like fun. Looks like you might know how to use a Go-Pro too. I bought one over a year ago, took it out of the box and read the instructions about 4 times, couldn't understand the terminology, and put it back in the box. I was hoping for a simple camera with just an on-off button, maybe you can set it up for me so all I have to do is turn it on/off.
I would also like to ride with sebastian If he is there with his Civic. Maybe I can learn something about how to get a FWD to turn without using the hand brake.
I would like to use the skid pad too, and have someone check my tires with a heat gun, to see if I can get an idea of which way to go on tire pressures and camber settings, and also calculate the lateral G loads.
Thanks
Last edited by Steve Alexander on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kurt Rahn
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Kurt Rahn »

Steve Alexander wrote:Maybe I can learn something about how to get a FWD to turn without using the hand brake.
I have a new Mini and I can tell you it's pretty easy in my car...just let off the gas. :lol:
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Steve Alexander
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

yeah, that helps with mine too, but then it slows down too much. maybe I need to learn to go in hotter to begin with. Any body seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8MdAA0ngf0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I have watched it 50 times trying to figure out what he is doing to get a FWD around that quick.
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Sebastian Rios
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Sebastian Rios »

Steve Alexander wrote:
I would also like to ride with sebastian If he is there with his Civic. Maybe I can learn something about how to get a FWD to turn without using the hand brake.
I'll be there Saturday, I would be glad to give you a ride.
BTW: The driver of the mini in your vid is definitely using the handbrake.
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Curt Thompson
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Curt Thompson »

Steve Alexander wrote:yeah, that helps with mine too, but then it slows down too much. maybe I need to learn to go in hotter to begin with. Any body seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8MdAA0ngf0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I have watched it 50 times trying to figure out what he is doing to get a FWD around that quick.
In the comments they say that old Mini has a Civic B16 engine in it, which is weighing down the front quite a lot and keeping the back of the car off the ground reducing traction, especially on braking (see the end where the rear flies up.) I suspect that's how that guy can drift the corners like that in an FF. Not to say that doesn't take a good amount of skill as well...

You can check out the "Scandinavian Flick":
How do do it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbr1K3uuOPk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and how not to do it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNanZBsATk0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Mako Koiwai
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Mako Koiwai »

@ Steve ... bring your GoPro ... charge up the battery and make sure you have your SD card in it, and I CAN set it for One Button operation
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Doug Kott
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Doug Kott »

Mako's right...one-button operation is the way to go. The different beeps it makes are helpful to tell you when it starts and stops, along with the flashing LED. First part of just about every GoPro video? The operator looking into the lens. :mrgreen:
Steve Alexander
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

Looks like marginal weather Saturday. if it rains Friday night, is it likely there will be puddles on the course saturday morning; in other words, are there low spots that hold water? Just wondering, because if there is, can I bring a broom and try to dry it out a bit. I have no inner fender wells on my car and the bay is detailed out, so I don't want to get muddy water all over everything. Can I wait 'till later in the morning to start my runs?
How can I find out if I got my check in soon enough to get a spot Saturday?
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Max Hayter
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Max Hayter »

Check the entry list - you're not on it at this point, so worrying about the rain is moot.
~Max H.

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Steve Alexander
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Steve Alexander »

I checked the entry list and there is no one on it. this is what it said:
The entry list will post on April 1, 2012. Thank you for your interest.
No entries are listed - this may be because the organizer has disabled this feature or there are no registrations yet. List updated every 15 minutes.
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Max Hayter
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Max Hayter »

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6393" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
~Max H.

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#31 SSC
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Ed Holley
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Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Ed Holley »

Steve Alexander wrote:I checked the entry list and there is no one on it. this is what it said:
The entry list will post on April 1, 2012. Thank you for your interest.
No entries are listed - this may be because the organizer has disabled this feature or there are no registrations yet. List updated every 15 minutes.
Max beat me to it. I'll just add that "The entry list will post on April 1, 2012" means that it will post under the "Events" section of the Board, which it did. You would not have been expected to know that and, frankly, maybe the Registration page could have been more descriptive as to WHERE to look for the "will post" location.
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