Heritage Classic Street(HCS) Rim size, an answer from...

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David Barrish
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Heritage Classic Street(HCS) Rim size, an answer from...

Postby David Barrish » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:56 pm

Per the 2016 HCS guide line:

Wheel and Tire Allowances
• Any metallic wheels are allowed.
• Any DOT‐approved tires with a UTQG Treadwear Grade of 200 or higher are permitted. Tires
must also meet other requirements in Section 13.3 of the Solo rules.

I understand the +,- 1" of:

13.4 WHEELS
Any type wheel may be used provided it complies with the following:
A. It is the same width as standard and as installed it does not have an offset
more than ±7.00 mm (±0.275”) from a standard wheel for the car. The
resultant change in track dimensions is allowed.
B. Wheel (rim) diameter may be increased or decreased 1” from the standard
part. This change may be applied to the front, rear, or both axles.

My question is the limitation of 13.4, A. "same width as standard and as installed" not an issue in HCS?

I'm becoming a caretaker of a car for this class and would like a clarification. Thank you.
Last edited by David Barrish on Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rick Brown
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Re: Heritage Classic Street(HCS) Rim size, what's legal?

Postby Rick Brown » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:22 pm

David Barrish wrote:Per the 2016 HCS guide line:

Wheel and Tire Allowances
• Any metallic wheels are allowed.
• Any DOT‐approved tires with a UTQG Treadwear Grade of 200 or higher are permitted. Tires
must also meet other requirements in Section 13.3 of the Solo rules.

I understand the +,- 1" of:

13.4 WHEELS
Any type wheel may be used provided it complies with the following:
A. It is the same width as standard and as installed it does not have an offset
more than ±7.00 mm (±0.275”) from a standard wheel for the car. The
resultant change in track dimensions is allowed.
B. Wheel (rim) diameter may be increased or decreased 1” from the standard
part. This change may be applied to the front, rear, or both axles.

My question is the limitation of 13.4, A. "same width as standard and as installed" not an issue in HCS?

I'm becoming a caretaker of a car for this class and would like a clarification. Thank you.

Not sure I understand your question. Same width as standard, period. As installed, it can't have more offset than specified.
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David Barrish
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Re: Heritage Classic Street(HCS) Rim size, what's legal?

Postby David Barrish » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:53 pm

So a rim wider than " same width as standard and as installed" would move the car to:

Heritage Class Race(HCR)

Wheel and Tire Allowances
• All DOT approved tires and race tires (non-DOT) are allowed.
• Wheel width is limited to a maximum of 8”.

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Mike Simanyi
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Re: Heritage Classic Street(HCS) Rim size, what's legal?

Postby Mike Simanyi » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:12 am

David, are those *all* the rules pertaining to HCS wheels and tires?

If they are, don't confuse 13.3 with 13.4 where it's quoted in this thread.

In my opinion, given what was quoted above, you can use any metallic wheel, which means any diameter, any width, any offset.

13.3 is *specifically* about tires, including tread depth as molded, size range, equal availability for competitors, etc. It's generally the clause intended to address reasonableness and fairness to all competitors. It has nothing to do with tire size as mounted on a competitor's car, but rather makes sure we don't have one car on custom one-off Yokohamas while everyone else is stuck on PepBoys UltraMPGs.

If there are any other HC rules about wheels, please point me to them and I'll tell you what I think.

Side note: all this is kinda moot. The class is basically for local use, it's not an official class for National events and I believe the rules were formulated by Howard and Raleigh in conjunction with the "HC movement" after the SEB eliminated their perpetually undersubscribed - at the National level - class. We on the SEB were shown the draft and asked for feedback, but ultimately they're outside the SEB's purview, much like CAM rules. HC probably has a FB group or some other type of group to discuss this, so you may want to explore that and see what the group mood is like.

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Re: Heritage Classic Street(HCS) Rim size, what's legal?

Postby David Barrish » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:31 pm

Mike,

Under HSC, this is it:

Wheel and Tire Allowances
• Any metallic wheels are allowed.
• Any DOT‐approved tires with a UTQG Treadwear Grade of 200 or higher are permitted. Tires
must also meet other requirements in Section 13.3 of the Solo rules.

I submitted the attached for a clarification:

Thank you for submitting a request/input to the Solo Events Board. The details of your request can be found below.

Letter ID Number: #25481

Title: Heritage Classic Street(HCS) Wheel size, what's legal?

Class: ES

Request: Per the HCS guide line under Wheel and Tire Allowance: Any metallic wheels are allowed. Does that mean they can be other than as originally installed on the car from the manufacture. Or:

13.4 WHEELS
Any type wheel may be used provided it complies with the following:
A. It is the same width as standard and as installed it does not have an offset
more than ±7.00 mm (±0.275”) from a standard wheel for the car. The
resultant change in track dimensions is allowed.
B. Wheel (rim) diameter may be increased or decreased 1” from the standard
part. This change may be applied to the front, rear, or both axles.

Could we ask that the rule be: Wheel width is limited to a Maximum of 6".

My 1961 MGA comes with 15x4 steel rims that from the factory are a riveted not welded two part design. I would like to add some current rims and would like to be legal for HCS. Thank you. David Barrish



Again, I am looking for clarification from the organization that everyone can build their car too. I think of the CAM classes as the guide.

Brian Howlett
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Re: Heritage Classic Street(HCS) Rim size, what's legal?

Postby Brian Howlett » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:12 pm

Hello David,

I think you're over thinking this and confusing Street Classes with HCS. If you run in Historic 1 with an HCS PAX then you can run any wheel and tire you like as long as it has the 200 treadware rating. If you run Historic 1 with a ES PAX then you would need to follow the rules of ES which does limit the wheel width. Either way please bring out the MGA so we can all enjoy it. So put some 6" alloy wheels on that thing with 195/50-15 Bridgestones and let it fly.

Brian
111
Morgan Plus 4 #111 8-)

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Mike Simanyi
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Re: Heritage Classic Street(HCS) Rim size, what's legal?

Postby Mike Simanyi » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:05 pm

David,

The Heritage Classic class isn't under the purview of the SEB, so you likely aren't going to get a response from them but rather from Doug Gill. It does not build off any category in Solo; it's a standalone regional class or category, not legal for National competition.

I was on the SEB when the rule set was proposed, and if I recall correctly the idea was to allow any wheel that fits in compliance with the bodywork and suspension limitations, as long as it's metallic. (No need to have a bunch of carbon fiber wheels required to be competitive.)

The reason 13.3 is referenced is solely to qualify the TIRES, not the wheels. So the tires have to not be on the banned list, they have to be readily available to all (or at least most) competitors, if a new model is released it has to be available for purchase by the deadline date in at least 6 sizes spanning three wheel diameters, etc.

If you're trying to check legality of the wheel: is it metal? Does it fit within legal bodywork? That's all you have to determine.

And I'll back up Brian on our Historic 1 issue with HCS vs ES. Unless you're trying to compete under an ES index of sorts, the wheel size is basically unlimited. In ES though, it's highly limited. I'm kinda doubting the rest of the car is ES compliant though, even if we ignore the 25 year rule.

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Re: Heritage Classic Street(HCS) Rim size, what's legal?

Postby David Barrish » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:44 pm

And we have an answer from Doug Gill at the home office:


Hi, Paul,

I’m not the Solo Events Board, but I’ve intercepted your letter #25481 because the SEB does not maintain the Heritage Classic Rules. This is being done in-house here in the SCCA National office.

When the rules says, “Any metallic wheels are allowed,” it means what it says. Solo Rules section 13.4 is not a part of Heritage Classic. The Heritage Classic Rules basically stand on their own “after” Section 12, Definitions. So there is no need to reference any portion of Section 13, Street Category, for an HCS car.

There are no restrictions on the wheel size for HCS. Any 15x6 wheel (or any other size) would be acceptable.

Hope this helps.

-Doug

Brian Howlett
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Re: Heritage Classic Street(HCS) Rim size, an answer from...

Postby Brian Howlett » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:27 am

As a further clarification on body modifications:

"Body panels may be replaced with an OE equivalent and fenders may be flared."

Brian
Morgan Plus 4 #111 8-)


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