How to avoid getting your racecar impounded

[Bill Hogan]

Hey all -

It's been a while since I've been involved with Solo2, as I've moved on to other hobbies - sailing at the moment.

I wanted to let you all know how I avoided having my supercharged, highly modified race car impounded by the Santa Monica Police a few minutes ago, and I hope this helps any of you who might find yourself in a similar situation:

I was driving down Main street carefully obeying the speed limit when I encountered a SM motorcycle officer wolfpack enforcement action. There were about 5 motorcycle cops spread around a two block area. A pedestrian was in a cross walk, on the opposite side of the street, and was walking AWAY from me and about to step up on the OPPOSITE curb, so I cautiously, slowly proceeded through the crosswalk.

Well, well, wouldn't you know it? SMs finest lit me up like a Christmas tree....

I pulled over and had my license, registration, and proof of insurance out before he even reached my car.

Officer: "This is a street racer, please open your hood"

Me: "I'm sorry officer, I'm unwilling to do that'

Officer: "Please get out of the car, I'm a trained street racer investigator, and I'm going to impound your car if you wont cooperate"

Me: "Ok...I want to cooperate..." (as I said this, I rolled up all my windows and closed my sunroof)

Officer: "Why are you closing up the car?"

Me: "Oh, that's just a habit - security"

Officer: "Stay in the car and give me your keys"

Me: "Why do you need my keys?"

Officer: (visibly angry) "BECAUSE I'M GOING TO IMPOUND YOUR CAR AND I DON'T WANT YOU DRIVING AWAY!" STAY IN THE CAR, DO YOU UNDERSTAND???

Me: Yes officer....

He then proceeded to run my plates, and I assume wants and warrants on me. (always pay your tickets and show up in court) A few minutes elapsed before his supervisor ( the "good cop") arrived.

Good Cop: "Hello sir - is your window broken? it makes it hard for me to talk to you with it up like this."

Me: "No - I just always roll it up when I leave the car - I can step outside to talk with you"

Good Cop: "Ok - let's do that"

On the sidewalk he stated that I have a choice: Open the hood, or have my car impounded and inspected later by the highway patrol

Me: "Well, if that's what you have to do. I'm not giving you permission to search my car"

Good Cop: "Why not - if you have nothing to hide?...."

Me: "Well, I'm a very private person, and I don't want my privacy violated"

Good Cop: "Aren't we all - but look, this will be a lot easier if you just open it for us and let us look around - then we can avoid impounding it"

Me: "I'm sorry, but I'm unwilling to do that"

Good cop: "Well, the citing officer is going to look for visible violations - we need to check the codes regarding impound"

Some good nature banter ensued from me, complementing the SM Police on what a great job they were doing protecting the city, and admiring their motorcycles - a Honda and a BMW! I explained that the car was not a "Street Racer" and that in fact I was involved with SOLO2 racing, and that we abhorred street racers to the point of doing community outreach to try and stop it. I told him the the modifications were to increase handling and grip and to decrease wieght - that's why the interior was stripped and the car lowered.

Good Cop: "This is your last chance will you let us look under the hood"

Me: "I'm sorry"

Good Cop then caucuses with the bad cop, who has been photographing my interior and gauges and crawling around on his hands an knees trying to look under my car (hahahaha good luck with THAT!)

Good Cop: "Ok - you are being issued a citation for failure to stop for a pedestrian, and you will have to go to a refferee who will inspect the car for violations. Have a nice day"

Me: Signed the ticket and wished them a good day and told them to be safe.

Bottom line?

No impound, no $1000 Cat ticket, no NOTHING. I have to restore the car to stock soon anyway, so the BAR is no big deal. Had I opened my hood, I would have set in motion a chain of events that would almost certainly led to the impoundment of my vehicle - the CARB stickers are mostly gone from my modified intake and supercharger and headers, and the cat is just 49 state legal. This then gives them probable cause to keep searching. None of my visible modifications were illegal, so they could not impound the vehicle.

Do not under any circumstances give a cop PERMISSION to search your car. Hell, I could have had 20 kilos of meth stuffed under the hood, and I still would have walked away. Ever watch "COPS"? The Perp inevitably invites the search. If you do, you are screwed. Be polite but firm.

There is video somewhere on the internet where I learned all this stuff - it's called "how to avoid getting arrested" or something. I cant search for it now because of a lousy internet connection.

Good luck to everyone, and have fun out there. I miss the racing, but not the heat, smog, long drives and early mornings! ;)

[Will Kalman]

This reminded me of the Chris Rock classic, "How not to get your ass kicked by the police" (language warning)

[Steve Ekstrand]

It's my opinion, may not be right, don't rely on it, that under US v Terry, police have the right to search a closed area, such as a trunk, where a person with a weapon may be hiding or an area you could reach a hidden weapon (under your seats, center console, glovebox). And they can observe whats in plain view. That's it for searches of vehicles.

The problem of course is those damn illegal aliens they crammed under the hood of a truck and severely burned. But I'd love to see them make that argument for a Civic.

[Kevin Price]

Interesting. So why did you close up the windows, etc.?

[Jeff Shyu]

what you did was risky. it worked out for you, but may not be the best course of action for everyone.

they COULD have impounded your car if they wanted to. it's not hard for a cop to point to something for probable cause. could you sue them after? maybe? but they're banking on your time being too valuable to spend time and resources to fight a city/state agency.

that's IF your car's totally legal.

if your car has the slightest hint of being illegal, then their impound becomes fully justified, you get hit with the tickets, the impound fee, towing fee, and whatever ridiculous amount of administrative charges they tag on nowadays.

it's not worth the risk, imo.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

I was driving down Main street carefully obeying the speed limit when I encountered a SM motorcycle officer wolfpack enforcement action.

I can attest to this street in Santa Monica that runs north/south into Venice, along with Lincoln Blvd (which is parallel to Main St and east of it, and for a certain portion of it is PCH), that during the day and evening rush hour, is LITTERED with LAPD just itching to give tickets for not stopping for pedestrians at a cross walk. I'd rather get rear-ended (of which I have 3 times in my E36) for stopping for a pedestrian than not and get a stupid ticket like that. It's the cross walk where they nail you.

[Bob Pl]

Hi Bill,

Thank's for the post.

I might be tempted to play hard ball like that, depending on my mood. I have no problem saying no to LEO's. I carry an inordinate amount of autox junk in my car at all times & the idea of a cop rummaging thru it turns my stomach. The car is stock though so no worries there. Been a while since John Law has bugged me. Sometimes they will ride my azz for a while, run tags (I guess) and then take off.

[Mako Koiwai]

At traffic school, the off duty cop doing the class, said it was OK to proceed at a "walking pace," through the pedestrian crossing after the ped had passed. Sounds like a trap. ... but can you imagine downtown if no one moved while a single pedestrian was still in the intersection ?!

[Bob Beamesderfer]

First off, it's always best to make sure you don't enter the crosswalk—marked or unmarked—until the ped has stepped onto the curb. Oh, you don't think there's such a thing as an unmarked crosswalk? Wrong. At EVERY intersection of two public streets there is a crosswalk with either painted or imaginary lines extending the width of the sidewalk. No sidewalk? It's still there, from the curb or imaginary curb line, to something like 42 inches wide away from the street, road, lane, parkway, roadway, circle, drive or WTFE.

the CARB stickers are mostly gone from my modified intake and supercharger and headers,

Second, there is no requirement that you have a sticker for these. Stickers with the CARB E.O. number are courtesy of the company that makes the part. This is probably the least-known portion of the law.

Third, "I'm a trained street racer investigator" doesn't mean crap. Show me your BAR emissions inspection certificate or bugger off. :mrt:

[Bob Beamesderfer]

what you did was risky. it worked out for you, but may not be the best course of action for everyone.

they COULD have impounded your car if they wanted to. it's not hard for a cop to point to something for probable cause. could you sue them after? maybe? but they're banking on your time being too valuable to spend time and resources to fight a city/state agency.

that's IF your car's totally legal.

if your car has the slightest hint of being illegal, then their impound becomes fully justified, you get hit with the tickets, the impound fee, towing fee, and whatever ridiculous amount of administrative charges they tag on nowadays.

it's not worth the risk, imo.

Jeff, you're off base. The vehicle has to be illegal—clearly and obviously—or involved in a felony to be impounded.

whatever ridiculous amount of administrative charges they tag on nowadays.

Tsk, tsk, Mr. Libertarian. Should they just raise our taxes instead?

[Jeff Shyu]

Third, "I'm a trained street racer investigator" doesn't mean crap. Show me your BAR emissions inspection certificate or bugger off. :mrt:

actually, it does kinda mean crap. not in a "i'm certified for ____" sense, but in a "i went through one of the courses to identify likely targets to generate revenue for the city/state"

it's kinda funny how many people on car forums are getting popped for their illegal mods lately, each one costing them 4-600 bucks. there's a lot of thread on how to try to mask your mods now, or "what's a legal mod"?

[Aaron McKinnon]

I've even heard of them picking on smog exempt cars (pre 1975) these days...

[Jeff Shyu]

Jeff, you're off base. The vehicle has to be illegal—clearly and obviously—or involved in a felony to be impounded.

pretty sure they can point to anything that's not stock, and cite that as probable cause to conduct a more through search. it's just like if a cop wants to be an ass, and search the inside of your car, there's numerous fictitious reasons he can use to take a look. you can refuse, but in the end, it's up to the cop to see how much of a hardass he wants to be. "i smelled pot in his car".. "oh, it was just mildewy socks".. "oh, it was just the dump truck passing by at the time".. :unimpressed:

Tsk, tsk, Mr. Libertarian. Should they just raise our taxes instead?

no, they should cut spending instead, and lay off all the useless people that have been sitting on cushy govt jobs making 6 figure as a "manager" for years.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Tsk, tsk, Mr. Libertarian. Should they just raise our taxes instead?

no, they should cut spending instead, and lay off all the useless people that have been sitting on cushy govt jobs making 6 figure as a "manager" for years.

OK, now we're talkin'! My favorites are administrative types who have offices or board rooms remodeled for the amount of money that would pay the salaries of two cops or teachers or firefighters or ...

[Bill Hogan]

Here is the video guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJ ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Know your rights, and politely insist they be respected. Last time I checked, this was still America, (especially after the last presidential election! ) and my person and property were still safe from unreasonableness (warrantless) search and siezure.

There is no law that says I have to let a cop search my car. Let him get a WARRANT if he thinks he has probable cause. Thanks, I'll wait while he does that.....Go ahead and impound my car - you will still need probable cause and have to convince a judge to issue a warrant to search it. Meanwhile, I'll take a cab.

The police rely on lying to and intimidating people to get them to voluntarily give up their rights. The courts have ruled that this is perfectly legal (thanks Reagan!) If you volunteer, you are screwed. The po-po backed down, and the cop that stopped me only issued the crosswalk and fixit tickets, which I fully intend to fight, and cost the city any revenue they might think they will get from such pettiness.

If everyone did what I do when I get tickets, the whole court system would come to a screeching halt. Cities rely on people backing down to generate this sort of revenue.

It's extortion.

[Steve Ekstrand]

The 4th amendment doesn't use the word warrant. If you are detained, as in a traffic stop LEO has the right to "secure the scene" and search you for weapons as well as areas within your immediate control and access. This has been extended to include closed areas where another person could be hiding to ambush LEO.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

The 4th amendment doesn't use the word warrant. If you are detained, as in a traffic stop LEO has the right to "secure the scene" and search you for weapons as well as areas within your immediate control and access. This has been extended to include closed areas where another person could be hiding to ambush LEO.

Not many gangstas can hide in the engine compartment. ;)

[Steve Towers]

Several weeks ago, in the Orange County Register, the question about crosswalks and pedestrians was asked. It was answered by a traffice cop who said (this is not exact) there is nothing in the vehicle code that pins it down, that it is a safety item. It was his position that if the pedestrian is beyond the point of any danger, you can proceed through the crosswalk. I'd be interested to know what code violation Bill was cited for and how that section actually reads.

[Jeff Shyu]

Several weeks ago, in the Orange County Register, the question about crosswalks and pedestrians was asked. It was answered by a traffice cop who said (this is not exact) there is nothing in the vehicle code that pins it down, that it is a safety item. It was his position that if the pedestrian is beyond the point of any danger, you can proceed through the crosswalk. I'd be interested to know what code violation Bill was cited for and how that section actually reads.

This is why it's so easy to fight a traffic ticket, because most cops don't know the full extent of the vehicle code except for the few that they cite every day.

I had to tell a CHP what CVC to cite me with when he was trying to give me a ticket for lane splitting.

CVC 21950
21950. (a) The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, except as otherwise provided in this chapter.

(b) This section does not relieve a pedestrian from the duty of using due care for his or her safety. No pedestrian may suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle that is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard. No pedestrian may unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in a marked or unmarked crosswalk.

(c) The driver of a vehicle approaching a pedestrian within any marked or unmarked crosswalk shall exercise all due care and shall reduce the speed of the vehicle or take any other action relating to the operation of the vehicle as necessary to safeguard the safety of the pedestrian.

(d) Subdivision (b) does not relieve a driver of a vehicle from the duty of exercising due care for the safety of any pedestrian within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection.
Amended Sec. 8, Ch. 833, Stats. 2000. Effective January 1, 2001.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

I had to tell a CHP what CVC to cite me with when he was trying to give me a ticket for lane splitting.

When was that made illegal?

[Jeff Shyu]

I had to tell a CHP what CVC to cite me with when he was trying to give me a ticket for lane splitting.

When was that made illegal?

it's not, that's why he decided to not give me the ticket after i flipped open his CVC to show him where it's at...

to be fair though, most cops just accept that "lane splitting" is legal in california, when in reality, there's no actual vehicle code that spells it out in those words. It's lane sharing, and it's not specific to motorcycles (yes, you can "split lane" in a car if the lane's wide enough).

[George Schilling]

Several weeks ago, in the Orange County Register, the question about crosswalks and pedestrians was asked. It was answered by a traffice cop who said (this is not exact) there is nothing in the vehicle code that pins it down, that it is a safety item. It was his position that if the pedestrian is beyond the point of any danger, you can proceed through the crosswalk. I'd be interested to know what code violation Bill was cited for and how that section actually reads.

This is why it's so easy to fight a traffic ticket, because most cops don't know the full extent of the vehicle code except for the few that they cite every day.

I had to tell a CHP what CVC to cite me with when he was trying to give me a ticket for lane splitting.

CVC 21950
21950. (a) The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, except as otherwise provided in this chapter.

(b) This section does not relieve a pedestrian from the duty of using due care for his or her safety. No pedestrian may suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle that is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard. No pedestrian may unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in a marked or unmarked crosswalk.

(c) The driver of a vehicle approaching a pedestrian within any marked or unmarked crosswalk shall exercise all due care and shall reduce the speed of the vehicle or take any other action relating to the operation of the vehicle as necessary to safeguard the safety of the pedestrian.

(d) Subdivision (b) does not relieve a driver of a vehicle from the duty of exercising due care for the safety of any pedestrian within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection.
Amended Sec. 8, Ch. 833, Stats. 2000. Effective January 1, 2001.

Seems to me that this is sufficiently vague that unless you left the pedestrian lying the street from the impact of your car, anyone should be able to beat this.

[Will Kalman]

Seems to me that this is sufficiently vague that unless you left the pedestrian lying the street from the impact of your car, anyone should be able to beat this.

George, you forget that a cop is 1.5 people in court and you are only worth 1 person. All he has to do is say "I've been a traffic cop for 15 years and with my trained eye, I saw the defendant do something dangerous" and you're done.

Luckily, the court doesn't have a conflict of interest in having you pay a fine. Oh, wait.....

[Jeff Shyu]

it's a simple case of spirit of the law vs. the word of the law. which really means, it's up to how well you present your case, and how much of an ass the judge wants to be.

but that's how it all is.. >_<

[Mike Shin]

No impound, no $1000 Cat ticket, no NOTHING. I have to restore the car to stock soon anyway, so the BAR is no big deal. Had I opened my hood, I would have set in motion a chain of events that would almost certainly led to the impoundment of my vehicle - the CARB stickers are mostly gone from my modified intake and supercharger and headers, and the cat is just 49 state legal. This then gives them probable cause to keep searching. None of my visible modifications were illegal, so they could not impound the vehicle.

I've had quite a few modification tickets in my day and Impound due to illegal modifications was never a subject that had come up. Strange... I think the cop would have given you a REF ticket regardless if you popped your hood or not and in this case is what had happened. The threat of impound is just a tactic to make one comply with the officers demands, and the only time I've seen when vehicles are impounded was when the person is suspected of a Misdemeanor or a Felony traffic violation, which I had to go through once. It's a very very expensive and stressful ordeal.