Cal Club Autocross Forums

As you might expect, Sharon is hot to trot having gone thru this weekend's Ladies School. She would like to run (ES) Novice Ladies in 2012. Someone suggested that. However, in reviewing Class results for the events in 2011, it appears that there has been no "NovL". Is that because there were no ladies running in NOVICE this year or, had there been, they would have been lumped with the guys?

It's really a question of whether to run ES, ESL, Nov or NovL. It doesn't matter, as long as she wins a jacket at year-end. :gpower:

NovL is a regional class per our supplemental regulations (http://solo2.com/supp_regs/SCCA_Cal_Clu ... s_2011.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), so there isn't a lumping into the open class. If there are enough competitors, NovL would be the place for her, assuming she meets the qualifications. I'd suggest hitting up the newbies from the ladies school and drumming up enough competitors to make a class.

As a side note, the 2012 Supplemental Regulations are being finalized for release.

Running in a class by yourself is not much fun, but sometimes it only takes one person to start and other will start showing up in the class. I think she should run ES and hope someone joins her or ES Novice where she will be with other novice ladies and gentlemen.

Thanks guys. Actually, what you both have mentioned about getting other competitors involved, whether ES or NovL, is what I have been doing behind the scenes for ES. That's why we had 3-4 entries yesterday in ES. So, maybe will have to build NovL as well.

Ed Holley wrote:Thanks guys. Actually, what you both have mentioned about getting other competitors involved, whether ES or NovL, is what I have been doing behind the scenes for ES. That's why we had 3-4 entries yesterday in ES. So, maybe will have to build NovL as well.

Do you have street tires or racing tires? There's always SK2L if you're on street tires. It will be easier to get people for that since it can be any CS, DS, ES, GS, or HS car. NOVL is probably the best idea though.

Jeff Stuart wrote:

Ed Holley wrote:Thanks guys. Actually, what you both have mentioned about getting other competitors involved, whether ES or NovL, is what I have been doing behind the scenes for ES. That's why we had 3-4 entries yesterday in ES. So, maybe will have to build NovL as well.

Do you have street tires or racing tires? There's always SK2L if you're on street tires. It will be easier to get people for that since it can be any CS, DS, ES, GS, or HS car. NOVL is probably the best idea though.

I don't think I want to go that route for the same reason that I tried SK2 only to go back to ES. In SK2, at best, I'd always be 4th or 5th place out of 8 cars or so. Even indexed, the CS cars kick our butts. I think NovL would be the way to go if she can contact and get buy-in from the other ladies as KJ suggested. Otherwise, it's gonna be ES or ESL for her. Besides, if NovL is only a regional class, she might as well work with ES or ESL to go "National". What can I say? I've been putting up with her "winning" ways for 30 years. Not gonna change now.

Ed Holley wrote: I don't think I want to go that route for the same reason that I tried SK2 only to go back to ES. In SK2, at best, I'd always be 4th or 5th place out of 8 cars or so. Even indexed, the CS cars kick our butts. I think NovL would be the way to go if she can contact and get buy-in from the other ladies as KJ suggested. Otherwise, it's gonna be ES or ESL for her. Besides, if NovL is only a regional class, she might as well work with ES or ESL to go "National". What can I say? I've been putting up with her "winning" ways for 30 years. Not gonna change now.

While NOVL is regional, you would still run your car as ES so no effect on attending National events. I only think it would be easier to fill NOVL than ESL, since NOVL allows all classes. But of course she would be competing on index rather than heads up.

Karen here, on Mako's laptop...
NOVICE or NOVL is where you need to be. Your first year is all about learning and improving. Nationals is not a factor but still do the local National Tour in SD and the Pro Solo as these events are wonderful fun you will meet some very talented and encouraging ladies. Always take advantage of getting an instructor to show you the first run -- you will learn more. Run as many practices and champs as you possibly can as at this point it is all about seat time and more instruction.
Sharon, you have a lot of promise... keep going and get as much in this next year as you possibly can. It takes time & patience.
Ed, if you are going to be running ES you should be on r-comps, OTW run in SK2. Don't worry about being mid pack as it take some seat time to build up the skill -- just focus on working on that. You WILL get there. Whatever you decide to run then Sharon can run NOV. You can try to rally others to join NOVL but don't be disappointed if that doesn't work out... just get the seat time & more instruction so you don't develop any bad habits.

Mako to wrote:Karen here, on Mako's laptop...
NOVICE or NOVL is where you need to be. Your first year is all about learning and improving. Nationals is not a factor but still do the local National Tour in SD and the Pro Solo as these events are wonderful fun you will meet some very talented and encouraging ladies. Always take advantage of getting an instructor to show you the first run -- you will learn more. Run as many practices and champs as you possibly can as at this point it is all about seat time and more instruction.
Sharon, you have a lot of promise... keep going and get as much in this next year as you possibly can. It takes time & patience.
Ed, if you are going to be running ES you should be on r-comps, OTW run in SK2. Don't worry about being mid pack as it take some seat time to build up the skill -- just focus on working on that. You WILL get there. Whatever you decide to run then Sharon can run NOV. You can try to rally others to join NOVL but don't be disappointed if that doesn't work out... just get the seat time & more instruction so you don't develop any bad habits.

Hi Karen! This is ED on Ed's computer. I totally agree, as does Sharon, that she should run and contend in Novice or NovL. That's her plan. She is aware of what has been written here, and I'll show her what you have added.

However, I do disagree in a small way regarding SK2. Granted, I have only run in SK2 once. But, I'm a student of percentages and probabilities and my view is that a stock 1st Gen Miata is NOT going to be on the podium in SK2 against good running/driving CS cars that are also in SK2. One just needs to look at past results for 2011 to arrive at that conclusion. On the otherhand, I was the only entry in ES in September. For the past month or so, behind the scenes, I have been in touch with other ES drivers in an effort to build our ES class locally. Yesterday, we had four entries and I have won over another ES driver yet today. Among those that ran yesterday, the times are such that any one of us could contend from event to event. And I believe that the sheer competition will drive us to be better. I could be wrong but, for the time being, that's the plan. As for r-comps, for the time being we're all running treaded street tires. Cost is the reason. If the pendulum swings toward r-comps among our group, we'll switch to r-comps as well. Interestingly, on Saturday, I was almost (.025) in the 69s. If I had repeated on Sunday, I would have won. As it turns out, I came in 2nd after 2 DNFs that completely psyched me out. That's racing...and my "lesson" for this event, which is that maybe walking the course more than once would have prevented my DNFs, both of which were at the same place on the course.

One walk is definitely not enough. You need to be able to run the course in your head, without hesitation. You don't try to memorize everything ... you concentrate on key cones and features. You can't be fast if you don't know where you are and what's coming up.

A bunch of good links here: http://www.teamblewracing.com/forum/for ... p?TID=1963

Mako to wrote:One walk is definitely not enough. You need to be able to run the course in your head, without hesitation. You don't try to memorize everything ... you concentrate on key cones and features. You can't be fast if you don't know where you are and what's coming up.

A bunch of good links here: http://www.teamblewracing.com/forum/for ... p?TID=1963

On this we TOTALLY agree. Thanks for being there for us, Sharon AND me.

That IS you Karen... right? Or is it MAKO?

Ed Holley wrote:my view is that a stock 1st Gen Miata is NOT going to be on the podium in SK2 against good running/driving CS cars that are also in SK2. One just needs to look at past results for 2011 to arrive at that conclusion.

That's because nobody fast has run a well-prepped ES Miata in SK2 in our region in a while. There have been well-prepped, well-driven Miatas in ES SK2 that have reached the podium in the San Diego region - Steve Coe, Chris Cullen, Andrew Vo, and Scott Lewis all have done well in an ES Miata in SK2. Hand a fast driver a well-prepped ES SK2 Miata and they'll do just fine.

Ed Holley wrote:And I believe that the sheer competition will drive us to be better.

If the idea is to have competition to better yourself, then why bunch yourselves in a slower class? Real competition is what should be driving you to be better and the SK classes are extremely competitive in this region while remaining low-cost. Chasing a slow target is just that: slow.

Leonard Cachola wrote: That's because nobody fast has run a well-prepped ES Miata in SK2 in our region in a while....
If the idea is to have competition to better yourself, then why bunch yourselves in a slower class? Real competition is what should be driving you to be better and the SK classes are extremely competitive in this region while remaining low-cost. Chasing a slow target is just that: slow.

I'm not sure what "competition" versus "real competition" means. I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. My view is that ES exists locally, regionally and nationally for a reason. SK2 does not. I'm a newB. When I get to the point that I'm routinely trouncing the ES competition, I'll move up to another class. Maybe that will be SK2. Or, maybe when I'm consistently running 64s like you are, I'll move to SK2. In the meantime, it's a "SOLO" sport. Just me against the course and clock. But having a feeling for now at least, that my best on a given day MIGHT get me on the podium is a great motivator. And, I think the others in ES may feel the same...for now.

Leonard ... Novices just don't want to take the advise of those of us that have spent years watching development. We've seen folks TRY and HOPE that a class will develop locally, before they realize that it's more fun to just go where the numbers are. I relish the competition rather then the wins.

Some folks like group activity, others are more Solo. ;)

One of the reasons that Karen and I are returning is because of the camaraderie in Solo racing, which I believe is stronger here because we have to work together.

Ed, whatever class you end up in, I'm tellin' Sharon next time I see her that you called her hot to trot. }:)

Ed Holley wrote: My view is that ES exists locally, regionally and nationally for a reason. SK2 does not. I'm a newB. When I get to the point that I'm routinely trouncing the ES competition, I'll move up to another class. Maybe that will be SK2.

So, SK2's not good enough because it's not a national class, but maybe when you get better you'll move "up" to SK2?

Also, an SK2 equivalent is being offered at all the national events next year. If you go to any, you will almost certainly get destroyed by r-comp shod cars if you run ES, but will have a much better chance (because of you car's prep level) in the SK class.

... and you can't expect to buy R's just before a National event and think you'll be able to take advantage of them

btw. Jeff Stuart is an Up & Coming National Competitor, highest placed non-cheater-Civic at this years STX National driving the Berry BMW. THOSE are the types that you should be measuring yourself against.

Jeff Stuart wrote:

Ed Holley wrote: My view is that ES exists locally, regionally and nationally for a reason. SK2 does not. I'm a newB. When I get to the point that I'm routinely trouncing the ES competition, I'll move up to another class. Maybe that will be SK2.

So, SK2's not good enough because it's not a national class, but maybe when you get better you'll move "up" to SK2?

Also, an SK2 equivalent is being offered at all the national events next year. If you go to any, you will almost certainly get destroyed by r-comp shod cars if you run ES, but will have a much better chance (because of you car's prep level) in the SK class.

Jeff: I was just about to tell you how much I appreciated your PM, when you turned on me above. I'm just kidding. However, I don't think I was saying ANYTHING about SK2 being "not good enough". Quite the contrary. I have been consistently saying, or trying to say that, except for 3 or 4 cars (mostly, if not all CS), SK2 includes others who are also rans if they are otherwise ES cars, me included. I'm talking about OUR region. Not any other region. FWIW, I ran SK2 last month.

I'm glad SK2 will be going National. That wasn't my point. I was reacting to comments made here that ES is not quite competitive enough and is not "real competition" and is, in fact "slow". I have NO axe to grind regarding SK2. It's simply a matter that until I can run somewhere around 64s, I'd just be an also ran. Since I'm no where near that at this point, ES works better for me for several reasons. And I'm of the opinion that those folks that want to run ES kind of feel the same way.

As for R-Comps, I fully understand the difference in tires. If the ES drivers start showing up on R-Comps, we will switch. Heck, when the budget allows, maybe I'll get a set to try and see the difference R-Comps make in my times.

One last thing...This thread was supposed to be about "Novice Ladies". Unfortunately, it has become about ES vs. SK2 and about me. That was never my intent. Although I'm happy to continue the discussion, maybe it should be in a different thread. I DO appreciate all the comments, and I respect the opinions of those who have been doing this a lot longer than I.

Let's steer this back to "Novice Ladies" or, since the replies have essentially given Sharon direction as to what SHE should do, maybe shut this thread down.

Thanks to everyone.

For the record, the SK classes were developed locally to allow for those who drove on street tires in stock class to compete in their own class instead of trying to keep up with those on R-compounds. There's nothing wrong with getting a bunch of street tire stock cars to run in a National stock class at a local level for fun because it's completely legal, but keep in mind it just takes one person to show up with R-compounds to come in and destroy your class. That wouldn't happen in SK.

As far as CS index cars being faster than ES index cars — put one of the CS guys in a ES car prepped similarly to their own and see what happens. They should be able to post times very comparable to their index within a couple of laps. So, I don't buy your argument that an ES car can't be competitive in SK2. A fast driver is fast no matter what car they're in.

I'll find you at the next event Ed ;)

I agree, NOVL is the way to go for Sharon next year

For reasons previously stated, I'm done here, although I'd be happy to continue the repartee via PM with anyone who wishes.