Went to my first event and it was great

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Alan Yu
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Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Alan Yu » Wed May 28, 2008 8:33 pm

I had a lot of fun at my first event, other then I could not hear anything over the speakers being far away and the radio station set up wasn't working. I missed my event and work but was able to reschedule. It didn't do too well i ran a high 82 on my first run, low 80, then a high 79 +3 cones. My friend who also was his first time did a mid 78 with a auto :( . I guess i need more ride time with an instructor. I was going into the turns too fast and as a result the car slides and the turbo doesn't kick in till 3500rpm. I also wasn't down shifting to first on some of the slower turns and I am sure plenty of things I didn't do too well.

It was great overall and if anyone wants to give me some tips and pointers it would be greatly appreciated. I will be there next time on June 15th.

Here was my car that Mako took

http://public.fotki.com/makofoto/2008-- ... /audi.html

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Chuck Fowler
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Chuck Fowler » Wed May 28, 2008 9:20 pm

glad you had fun. make sure you let the grid person know you want an instructor before your runs. also think about buying X-runs to get more seat time with help
it's only paranoia if your wrong

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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Mako Koiwai » Wed May 28, 2008 10:14 pm

Wasn't your Audi the one that Annie B was so excited about ... doing a 70?

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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Alan Yu » Wed May 28, 2008 11:17 pm

not sure, but my instructor liked my car cause she was pretty fast in it

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Jayson Woodruff
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Jayson Woodruff » Wed May 28, 2008 11:42 pm

Unless you have very odd gears, or its a very odd course, you shouldn't need first.

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Alan Yu
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Alan Yu » Wed May 28, 2008 11:50 pm

My car in 2nd gear - 30mph will be 3500rpm - I have to keep it above 3500 since my power curve does nothing before 3500 rpm or i can bleep the throttle (but that type of fancy footwork might be too advance for me). My power graph doesn't look that great for a 3000lb car - this is a dyno plot that should be similar to my car

Image

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Will Kalman
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Will Kalman » Thu May 29, 2008 8:26 am

Alan Yu wrote:My car in 2nd gear - 30mph will be 3500rpm - I have to keep it above 3500 since my power curve does nothing before 3500 rpm or i can bleep the throttle (but that type of fancy footwork might be too advance for me). My power graph doesn't look that great for a 3000lb car - this is a dyno plot that should be similar to my car
Usually on an autocross course, the time it takes to shift twice (2nd->1st, 1st->2nd) with zero power applied will cost you more time than bogging 2nd gear for a couple seconds. And for non AWD cars will usually just results in wheelspin. Plus, the distraction of all the added foot and hand work can cause driving errors.

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Annie Bauer
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Annie Bauer » Thu May 29, 2008 9:11 am

Hi Alan!

Yes it was me that helped instruct you - your car is VERY VERY fun and you did great at your first event! Glad to hear you had a good time (I know I did!).

Even with your car and the fact it is far out of boost at low speed, you shouldn't need to go to first gear. I spent a few years driving S2000's and Type R's, and those cars occasionally need first, but yours shouldn't. It's just a matter of learning how to keep the boost up as much as possible.

Just remember - slow in, fast out! If you can concentrate on that for the tight corners, you'll be super quick!

See you in June...

Annie

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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Leonard Cachola » Thu May 29, 2008 9:22 am

Hi Alan,

Glad to hear you had a good time and will be coming out again in June. As far as pushing through the turns: brake earlier! You've got to slow down to make those turns.

Was it you that was asking me how the Novice class was scored at the end of the day?
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Steve Collins
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Steve Collins » Thu May 29, 2008 9:39 am

A trick you can use to overcome turbo-lag is to learn to left-foot brake. That allows you to get back on the gas and start spooling up the turbo before you release the brakes. On my 1.8t VW (auto!) you can only overlap for about a second before the ECU chops the throttle, but combined with braking early, it's enough to have the turbo pulling at corner exit.

Steve

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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Marshall Grice » Thu May 29, 2008 9:52 am

Steve Collins wrote:A trick you can use to overcome turbo-lag is to learn to left-foot brake. That allows you to get back on the gas and start spooling up the turbo before you release the brakes. On my 1.8t VW (auto!) you can only overlap for about a second before the ECU chops the throttle, but combined with braking early, it's enough to have the turbo pulling at corner exit.

Steve
IMO, you're more likely to screw up the brake boosting and actually slow down then you are to actually improve your time. Being out of the boost sucks, i know, but the best solution i think is to drive the best line you can to keep your mid corner speeds up and allow early throttle application(ie, late apexing).

or get an aftermarket ecu that will do anti-lag.

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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Steve Ekstrand » Thu May 29, 2008 9:59 am

Alan-

Sort of combining what Annie and Steve are saying...

If you really set up turns slow in and fast out you allow yourself the opportunity for much earlier throttle application. And in a laggy car you can develop a since of timing where you even throttle down earlier than you would in a normal car and harder too. The engine sort of simulates a smooth throttle application as you're unwinding the wheel out of the turn. Your car will be easier to do this in than my wild old STU turbo Neon. That car could still blow off 275's in a straight line at 35mph when the turbo flashed to 20lbs.

But that slow in fast out is SOOOO critical. You can't be plowing past the apex and pinching off the exits then applying throttle 50 feet to late. It will kill you ANY car. It will be an eternal afterlife in a frigid purgatory in a laggy turbo car.

You HAVE to set yourself up for an early throttle on out of every tight turn.
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Ashley Armstrong
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Ashley Armstrong » Thu May 29, 2008 10:06 am

I think I want to try left foot braking next practice. Maybe put the final nail in the coffin for my tires :)
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Sebastian Rios
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Sebastian Rios » Thu May 29, 2008 10:31 am

Marshall Grice wrote:
IMO, you're more likely to screw up the brake boosting and actually slow down then you are to actually improve your time. Being out of the boost sucks, i know, but the best solution i think is to drive the best line you can to keep your mid corner speeds up and allow early throttle application(ie, late apexing).

or get an aftermarket ecu that will do anti-lag.
I agree, if you are in boost you have no vacuum for the brake booster to work off of. I've screwed up plenty of corners trying to go fast and slow down at the same time. :oops:

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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Alan Yu » Thu May 29, 2008 11:45 am

Thank, Thank to all, for the great advice and see everyone out there next time.

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Steve Collins
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Steve Collins » Thu May 29, 2008 2:33 pm

Sebastian Rios wrote:
Marshall Grice wrote:
IMO, you're more likely to screw up the brake boosting and actually slow down then you are to actually improve your time. Being out of the boost sucks, i know, but the best solution i think is to drive the best line you can to keep your mid corner speeds up and allow early throttle application(ie, late apexing).

or get an aftermarket ecu that will do anti-lag.
I agree, if you are in boost you have no vacuum for the brake booster to work off of. I've screwed up plenty of corners trying to go fast and slow down at the same time. :oops:

Perhaps it's make (or prep level?) dependent. I never noticed any issue with losing brake boost on my 1.8T VW. Sure seemed fastest to anticipate the throttle in and unwind as the turbo (and torque converter) spooled up. OTH, You guys been doing this longer than me so I'll defer to your wisdom.

sc

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Jayson Woodruff
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Jayson Woodruff » Thu May 29, 2008 3:19 pm

I think the real answer is he should soon get faster to not need first.

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Sebastian Rios
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Sebastian Rios » Thu May 29, 2008 3:40 pm

Steve Collins wrote: Perhaps it's make (or prep level?) dependent. I never noticed any issue with losing brake boost on my 1.8T VW. Sure seemed fastest to anticipate the throttle in and unwind as the turbo (and torque converter) spooled up. OTH, You guys been doing this longer than me so I'll defer to your wisdom.

sc
Could be, a little of both. I know other WRX drivers have experienced the same thing as me. Basically the pedal is super hard, but as soon as it is out of boost t goes back to normal.

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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Alan Yu » Thu May 29, 2008 4:58 pm

so who wants to be my instructor for the next time - hehehehehe - I am going to go with the 2nd or 3rd group. Since I am still a novice - I can go with any run groups (right?). Hopefully there will be lunch fun runs and get more practice then.

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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Kurt Rahn » Thu May 29, 2008 5:57 pm

One more hint: You might want to work the course before you drive it. I've found you can learn a lot about a given section of the course by watching other people drive it. You'll see the difference between those who take a given complex of turns well, and those who don't--speed in and out of the turn, early or late apex, line, car positioning, etc.--and can adjust your driving accordingly. It won't help you with the whole course, but at least you'll have a head start on that section.
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Steve Ekstrand » Thu May 29, 2008 6:13 pm

That was only the second time I can remember doing lunch fun runs. I would NEVER count on that happening.

You can do X run sets.
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Ashley Armstrong » Thu May 29, 2008 6:14 pm

Kurt Rahn wrote:One more hint: You might want to work the course before you drive it. I've found you can learn a lot about a given section of the course by watching other people drive it. You'll see the difference between those who take a given complex of turns well, and those who don't--speed in and out of the turn, early or late apex, line, car positioning, etc.--and can adjust your driving accordingly. It won't help you with the whole course, but at least you'll have a head start on that section.
It helps to see which cones the good drivers hit, too... tells you where to aim for :)
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Mako Koiwai
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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Mako Koiwai » Thu May 29, 2008 6:20 pm

Ashley ... do you have a car with an Automatic to practice left foot braking on the streets. It's difficult to practice left foot braking with a manual in an urban environment. And with everything else going on, it's difficult to practice left foot braking while AX'ing. Expect to hit the clutch instead of the brake and vice versa ... expect to blow thru some cone walls accidentally ... we've all been there! :oops:

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Re: Went to my first event and it was great

Post by Ashley Armstrong » Thu May 29, 2008 6:23 pm

Mako Koiwai wrote:Ashley ... do you have a car with an Automatic to practice left foot braking on the streets. It's difficult to practice left foot braking with a manual in an urban environment. And with everything else going on, it's difficult to practice left foot braking while AX'ing. Expect to hit the clutch instead of the brake and vice versa ... expect to blow thru some cone walls accidentally ... we've all been there! :oops:
Ohhh I know all too well :(. I began to learn LFBing for RallyX last summer. The worst is when you think you've got it down and then stomp on the brake instead of the clutch when you're trying to shift :oops:

I have this irrational fear of trying LFB on pavement, though. Not sure what my issue is!
Ash "Cupcakes"
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