Class half empty

[Bobby Beyer]

Not wanting to run the STF class all by myself next year, is there another class I should be registering in that has people I can compete against?

[Kurt Rahn]

Not wanting to run the STF class all by myself next year is there another class I should be registering in that has people I can compete against?

CST?

[Ira Cruz]

Stock Tire 2. But they took the class out next year! Should have left the Stock tire 1 & 2 classes for CSCC!!

[Bobby Beyer]

I think my 2 options are either CST or PAX right now...I hope some more STF peeps show up getting lonely out there.

[Max Hayter]

I think my 2 options are either CST or PAX right now...I hope some more STF peeps show up getting lonely out there.

I think the chances of STF growing much are slim. People who buy those sorts of cars, just don't mod them much. You are obviously a fairly unique person, Bobby

CST or PAX will be your best bet, although both would be very tough to actually win!

I would go with CST if I were you - a fun, diverse class, not entirely filled with aliens!

[Bobby Beyer]

I think you might be wrong on the Mod part...They just don't race them. Although with all the RSX's, Civic Si's, and Scion TC's you'd think there would be some more cars floating around.

My only problem with CST is that it wasn't a very fun experience when I ran it in my Mustang, that might partially be down to the car or it might partially be down to the random assortment of classes I was running due to being a Novice.

[Jayson Woodruff]

They just don't solo them. The orginal ST (was STS), was trying to capture the same crowd STF is now, but it degraded to all those $hit boxes we're stuck with now . Since then solo classing has been pretty unfriendly to the modern N/A tuner crowd, as it was 'pick whichever class you want to get whooped in'. So those cars and drivers went away. Given time, we'll see them back, but with a dead class, they'll do what you are (run alone, then either change cars, classes or mods).

Jay W

I think you might be wrong on the Mod part...They just don't race them. Although with all the RSX's, Civic Si's, and Scion TC's you'd think there would be some more cars floating around.

[Ed Holley]

I think my 2 options are either CST or PAX right now...I hope some more STF peeps show up getting lonely out there.

I think I might have a spare Mazda hood emblem if you want to come over and run with the Miatas in ES...on street tires.
We actually had 9 entries two events ago, in part due to Jason and Ken Lord. Go figure.

[Steve Coe]

Bobby,

I'm thinking of selling my STF Mazda 3 for the same reasons. Now if I can figure out what to replace it with...


Steve

[Bobby Beyer]

Steve,

I think its more a California issue as some of the other regions back east don't have any numbers issues with STF. The problem I have is that I don't want to sell the car since a hatch fits well in my life but I also don't want to run a "stock" car since that's no fun(I like to mod...but can't afford race tires)...which leaves me with a dilemma I can either buy a S2000, MX5, old Civic Si, old Miata, CRX Si, old BMW, or WRX all of which don't fit well within my life for some reason or another...or I push my car further into Street Prepared which I don't want to do since race tires and prep takes away most of my ability to dual use the car. If it really came down to it I think I would stop running solo with SCCA and switch to Rallycross or something else since it wouldn't be terribly difficult to adapt my car to do that.
Just keep me posted when you plan on running in San Diego...I'll do try to make the trip down, the car should be quite a bit more competitive now with wheels/tires and the custom shocks and power changes

With all that being said I really like STF as a class its cheap to run and its fun venturing into the dark on something with a platform and I have no problems running PAX just another class I need to fight in but I'd really like to run my own class if possible.



[RANT]
I'm getting the feeling the SCCA didn't think long term when they created Street Touring since I can't think of a single car i'd actually consider owning as a DD that fits well in any of the Street Touring class's aside from STF. Even the Cal Club numbers for STU and STX car's are low which makes any of the other cars I might want to own out of the question.
[/RANT]

[Max Hayter]

STX and STU used to be huge here, but when Subaru came out with the 08's, they all blew up and people slowly sold their older cars. Only recently have Subaru fixed the problem, but STX and STU have moved on.

[KJ Christopher]

[RANT]
I'm getting the feeling the SCCA didn't think long term when they created Street Touring since I can't think of a single car i'd actually consider owning as a DD that fits well in any of the Street Touring class's aside from STF.
[/RANT]

Wow. A whole lot of assumptions in that statement.

[Bobby Beyer]

Sorry that's partially poor grammar on my part, and and more just a tongue in cheek observation I've noticed about ST in general.

There are quite a few cars that seem like they should have some sort of class in ST that are otherwise excluded for whatever reasons(I'm sure because they would be difficult to quantify in performance) and there is also quite a few cars that seems to have been laid to waste for whatever reason or are just a bad fit for whatever class they were placed in. But this has gotten far enough off topic...I'll probably end up running PAX next year so I have some competitors.

[John Stimson]

I might have joined you in STF, if the Protege wagon was classed there instead of STC.

CST is no place for an STF car. Based on earlier years, I tried CST in the Protege thinking it would be mostly newbies in an odd assortment of incompletely-developed cars. This year it was more like the STC/STR overflow class, with top drivers in nationally-prepared cars from both classes. That made it tough to compete near the top in an STF car, I don't care who's driving it.

I ended up getting an RX-8 to compete in RTR. Someone posted a fully set up one for sale shortly after I bought mine. I think it might still be available. I really wish I could have bought that one instead because it was much cheaper and came with all the good bits installed. Check the for sale section.

I think an STR S2000, Miata, or MR2 would make a great daily driver, and for those who prefer a roomier ride, the Evo and STi seem like great choices as well. Just because a BMW won the championship this year doesn't mean the rally cars aren't good for the class; every other STU trophy was taken by one of those two cars.

Long term, I think any class with unrestricted spring rate ends up with non-street-driven cars in the top positions, and that isn't affected by whether they are brand new shiny cars with comfy seats or old rattly rustbuckets. It's cheaper to buy an old rattly rustbucket, and far less upsetting to take a hammer to the fenders and turn into something you don't want to drive on the street. As attractive as the concept of a "showroom street touring" (favoring shiny new cars) might be, it gets a lot less attractive a few years down the line when your shiny new car that you spent money to set up gets obsoleted by a newer car that's placed in your class to freshen it up.

[Will Kalman]

any class with unrestricted spring rate ends up with non-street-driven cars in the top positions

This.

[Bobby Beyer]

Not wanting to argue semantics but didn't Brian H drive his car to nationals this year? I can also think of a few other top finishers that drove their cars around I know Andy Hollis drove his 2 around town in Lincoln.

Pretty much the STR cars are out of the question since I need the space that a hatch gives for business related purposes...I also don't fit very well in the MX5, S2000, and MR2 so that takes them off the table too Going to an STX or STU car leaves me in a similar situation to what I'm experiencing right now since the numbers are pretty low.

[Jonathan Lugod]

Not wanting to argue semantics but didn't Brian H drive his car to nationals this year? I can also think of a few other top finishers that drove their cars around I know Andy Hollis drove his 2 around town in Lincoln.

Pretty much the STR cars are out of the question since I need the space that a hatch gives for business related purposes...I also don't fit very well in the MX5, S2000, and MR2 so that takes them off the table too Going to an STX or STU car leaves me in a similar situation to what I'm experiencing right now since the numbers are pretty low.

Charlie Davis drove his STX Bimmer to Lincoln from SF. Bryan H flew in and did the arrive and drive in that car. Street Touring cars don't need to be undriveable. It all depends on how you set it up. I drove my STCivic for 5 years as my daily driver and once I had the proper spring rates and shock valving done the car was very streetable. My STR S2000 isn't undriveable but it is inconvenient in comparison to a hatch. I miss my civic for that only reason; trunk space.

I think you'll like an E36 for STX. Its a good compromise as it has good seating and a decent trunk. Just try to get a clean one with low miles and you'll be okay. Old cars can be inconvenient at times because they DO need attention for maintenance constantly.

[Bobby Beyer]

I think you'll like an E36 for STX. Its a good compromise as it has good seating and a decent trunk. Just try to get a clean one with low miles and you'll be okay. Old cars can be inconvenient at times because they DO need attention for maintenance constantly.

Its not so much that seating is an issue its the trunk space, I haven't sound a sedan yet that's capable of hauling a rack server and rack switch without having to use the passenger seat. Plus with the inclusion of the twins in STX it seems like a bad bet to use any previously successful cars until the twins have been vetted otherwise it could just a gigantic waste of money and time only to find out your car is a turd due to a new competitor.

I've pretty much got my next moves figured out...With my half finished AI car will eventually get taken off street duty and turned into a legit racecar. More or less I was just trying to see if there was another class that would be appropriate to run in in the interim if no competitors show up.

[John Stimson]

Not wanting to argue semantics but didn't Brian H drive his car to nationals this year? I can also think of a few other top finishers that drove their cars around I know Andy Hollis drove his 2 around town in Lincoln.

There's a difference between a car you are willing to drive to and from an event (especially with the cost of gas if you towed) and a daily driver. And just about anything is tolerable for driving to/from your hotel if you don't have to worry about being pulled over. Charlie's STX E36 (that Bryan won in) is not his daily driver.

And yes -- some people do have ST cars that they do use everyday. It's just a question of what kind of ride you're willing to tolerate, and how much you're willing to pay to tune the shocks to ride smooth and provide the response you need for autocrossing.

Going to an STX or STU car leaves me in a similar situation to what I'm experiencing right now since the numbers are pretty low.

That's a little different from saying you wouldn't consider one as a daily driver.

[Craig Naylor]

Fixed that for you

And yes -- some people do have ST cars that they do use everyday. It's just a question of what kind of ride you're willing to tolerate, and how much you're willing to pay.... Massage Envy, or the like

After the Integra was totaled, the STS Miata became my daily driver. Admittedly I'm not home much to drive it, but I do spend a month here and there driving it every day. While it may not be completely class competitive powertrain wise, the suspension is. Financially I have to tolerate it at this time, but I pay... more specifically my spine pays dearly for that lack of a suspension tuned for daily driving.

[Bobby Beyer]

I said I wouldn't consider an STX car right now...I would buy an STU car since I'm a big fan of the WRX but as I've said its not in the cards for me right now as my costs go way up but I won't necessarily have more competitors.

I have no issues driving my car around even with the suspension with a natural frequency of 2.4hz overall which I can go stiffer I'm still a green driver so I didn't take it as far as it can go. My only question was what class should I be registering next year? It seems PAX is the the better of the 2 choices I have seeing as my car won't have much chance winning in CST and as a driver won't be competitive in PAX.

[Anthony P.]

I also understand. As a car the mazdaspeed miata is too tempting to leave alone (and there is no street touring class for it). While going pax would be fun buying 275 is out of the budget. So it looks like ill be going CST and try for a trophy. 6th? lol

Come race CST

[Arthur Grant]

I also understand. As a car the mazdaspeed miata is too tempting to leave alone (and there is no street touring class for it). While going pax would be fun buying 275 is out of the budget. So it looks like ill be going CST and try for a trophy. 6th? lol

Come race CST

Well Anthony you could run CST the next two events }:)

[Arthur Grant]

Sorry was thinking BSP. My vette is fun.

[Jesus Saucedo]

bobby, I'm still toying with the idea of prepping the Yaris for STF duty. Depending on what happens with the STCivic and co-drive deals.

Currently, that's fairly open, and I don't plan on selling her anytime soon. Jon Lugod built a hell of a car (too bad I cant drive it as well).
If anything, I might do STF in SD region.