Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

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Byron Goodman
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Byron Goodman »

Randy Chase wrote:
Byron Goodman wrote:You know, it's kind of funny - I was having a similar conversation with my wife yesterday while i was writing a check out for the upcoming practice session in San Diego. It feels strange to snail mail it, too. For all our recurring transactions that we pay every month, including bills, this is the only check that we have to write. We pay everything online.
This only adds to the confusion. The discussion does not apply to practice events which indeed have this archaic thing called checks and snail mail. That is an entirely different discussion that only seems related.
From what I see, registering for a practice and registering for an event are the same basic activity. Nonetheless, my point is that there is definitely room for improvement in the process. I offered myself up to assist with defining how to go about implementing improvement.

I do get the 'don't fix what ain't broken' thinking. However, incremental improvement is key for better overall experience in everything that we do. Eliminating the need for manually filling in a registration card every single event saves each participance at minimum 5 minutes. That represents several hours of time that is gained back for the participants (5 minutes x ~150 competitors = ~750 minutes = ~12.5 hours). The potential time savings increases when we factor in the time consumed entering that data into the system.


Change should never be implemented just for the sake of change - all change should focus on improving the current situation, which is the point I believe Randy is trying to make. Any and all changes need to apply to everyone that is in the region and this has the potential to vause concern and confusion. Still, we don't want to end up in analysis paralysis, where nothing gets done since so much time is spent in just deciding that we need to change.

-B
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Randy Chase »

Byron, I know you are a smart guy. Please read the linked thread on the SDR forum.

If one understands how the region politics work, how the clubs works, how the board and bylaws process works... and what THEY see as the reason for things being the way they are, then you can really address what can be done to change it.

I go over the difference in that thread between practice and championship days. I could post it here, but then I am discussing this in 3 places now. :|

edit because I too quickly had read Byron's post. Yes one can over-analyze something. But when the question is very basic and not really answered... then that is not over analyzing.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM AND HOW DOES THIS FIX IT?
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Randy Chase »

liminating the need for manually filling in a registration card every single event saves each participance at minimum 5 minutes. That represents several hours of time that is gained back for the participants (5 minutes x ~150 competitors = ~750 minutes = ~12.5 hours). The potential time savings increases when we factor in the time consumed entering that data into the system.
Why does the club care if you save 5 minutes? I know it sounds bizarre...but it is a serious question. If you spend a couple minutes at the table BEFORE you come to registration, how does that impact the club?

The time entering data is a real issue.
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Warren Leach »

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Last edited by Warren Leach on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Q V »

Warren Leach wrote:Sorry, I don't get it.

OK, you have to take five minutes to fill out a form. OK. Lots of wasted time.

But online you have to go online and......fill out a form. Sure, some is autofill. But does it take less than five minutes? No, it does not (frankly I find the online site incredibly clunky).

Hint, when you have to post instructions online on how to do online registration, it might not be great.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2684" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And Instruction version 3.0?
.
There's plenty of problems with using motorsportsreg; those are motorsportsreg problems, not online registration problems - we can definitely find or make a better online registration system but that's a topic for another thread.

The real benefit is that once you spend that initial amount of time filling everything out, *most* of the time, it will only take 1-2 minutes to preregister for anything. As long as your own information doesn't change, all you do is log in, register, get confirmation. I've never had any major issues registering w/ motorsportsreg or mailing in my entries, but I can tell you I drastically prefer using motorsportsreg even with all its quirks.

I'm online most of the day. When I get a notice that LA has a practice/championship, I can take care of it right then if I wanted. It's not necessary to have online pre-reg, but it does make it more convenient. Even if it only saves 30 seconds/person. A championship day of 120 people saves 1 hour, makes people "feel" better about the convenience, and will continue to do so each and every event. I don't know how it is for SD, but considering how heavily LA events are marketed online (and even in person, we typically tell people to go to solo2.com for more info), online registration is a natural expectation.

SD can keep their mail-in registrations & form cards - as mentioned in the SDR thread, at least just make us fill it out once/year/ever.

-----------------------------

PROBLEM:
- Trying to make the lives of the typical & new entrants easier. I could care less about how much work is saved or not by the people behind the scenes :D

WHAT TO DO:
- 1) reuse registration cards for points cards holders or somehow keep track of it so I don't have to fill it out every time I'm in SD. only change it if they are using a different car/class/etc. if nothing has changed in the last event, all they have to show is their points card. I don't have to re-enter my information each time I buy something from Amazon - I expect the same from other places I give my money to as often as I can.
- 2) maybe have a list of current points cards holders available at registration for those who forget/lose their points card. i have enough stuff in my wallet, thanks.

HOW TO DO IT:
- 1) people behind the scenes can do it however they want, whether it's simply storing the registration cards or some version of it in the timing trailer, or keeping a consistent database to use from event to event, or moving to online registration that stores the data so they can import/export at will.
- 2) print out a sheet with points card holders before first event. you can print out a new one each time, or just add in the new members by hand to save paper

WHAT DOES THIS SOLVE?
- Makes the lives of the paying customers slightly better, even if it just saves me 5 seconds because there is beauty in efficiency.

With that being said, moving toward some kind of online system will help facilitate the long term "enjoyment" of the general membership. Granted, I've read that some long time SD members may not have access to PC's or Internet or whatever; however, all of the notifications I've received about SD events are through email, the SDR site or forums. So somehow, those without PC or internet access are still getting the message passed onto them; they'll be able to do the same with an online system in place - no one said you had to drop the mail-in registration all together.

--------------------------------

Jon, if you are trying to get something like online registration implemented, it might be better to try to start it at the club level. Convince your own club rep to host one event where you take prepayment for a practice via paypal or whatever online. If a lot of people like it, you will know. If a lot of people don't, you will know. I think this is how online payment started in LA region - Jayson set something up. Eventually, it got used every event. I hope we get it up & running again for Sunday events.
Last edited by Q V on Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Randy Chase
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Randy Chase »

Per the SDR bylaws, one can opt in for mailed fliers and event notices. Not just email.
There's plenty of problems with using motorsportsreg; those are motorsportsreg problems, not online registration problems - we can definitely find or make a better online registration system but that's a topic for another thread.
See, this is what is odd. If there are process problems with that motorsportsreg, that gets a bye. But the process problems with the existing cards does not. We could solve the card issue just as easily if not easier by not requiring all those "auto filled" fields which are NOW IN THE SAN DIEGO database.

Seems to me that if one can register online by typing in a number and a password, one could fill out a card with your name and number only also. It just means the region has to let go of some of the stuff that is on the card.
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Q V »

Randy Chase wrote:Per the SDR bylaws, one can opt in for mailed fliers and event notices. Not just email.
There's plenty of problems with using motorsportsreg; those are motorsportsreg problems, not online registration problems - we can definitely find or make a better online registration system but that's a topic for another thread.
See, this is what is odd. If there are process problems with that motorsportsreg, that gets a bye. But the process problems with the existing cards does not. We could solve the card issue just as easily if not easier by not requiring all those "auto filled" fields which are NOW IN THE SAN DIEGO database.

Seems to me that if one can register online by typing in a number and a password, one could fill out a card with your name and number only also. It just means the region has to let go of some of the stuff that is on the card.
I'm all for either solution. Again: lazy entrant here: rather spend time walking course than filling out the same long form over and over.
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Bobby Beyer »

THIS ^^^^^
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Randy Chase
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Randy Chase »

Good, then you do understand that doing this online at this time, does not change the cards at all? That would have to be a different solution or proposal.
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Q V »

Randy Chase wrote:Good, then you do understand that doing this online at this time, does not change the cards at all? That would have to be a different solution or proposal.
The cards a bigger deal to me than online registration. However, online registration can be used to also solve the card issue (requires a larger overhaul, lots has to change, I'm sure, but just saying). Hence, I suggested changing the cards first; once that change is in place, converting to an online registration system should be even easier - less stuff written down = less stuff that needs to be transferred into a computer.

I understand that. It's the same basic problem/solution regarding online registration.

-----------------------------

PROBLEM:
- Trying to make the lives of the typical & new entrants easier. I don't like having to buy stamps, envelopes, and checks almost exclusively for SD AutoX.

WHAT TO DO:
- 1) Online registration. I already get an email when certain events are available. I'm in front of my computer most of the day already. I get a confirmation right away when I register online.

HOW TO DO IT:
- 1) Use any online registration system.

WHAT DOES THIS SOLVE?
- Makes the lives of the paying customers slightly better, even if it just saves me 5 seconds because there is beauty in efficiency.

Again, as an entrant, it doesn't matter to me what you do behind the scenes or how you optimize other stuff. All I care about is I prefer online registration over mail-in registration. I believe for LA region, for a while, we even allowed both - you were given confirmation online that your entry has been received but does not guarantee entry until after a certain date (for mail-in people to have time to get their registration in).
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Byron Goodman »

I really didn't think about the point the QV makes, but it does ring true with me (not just the lazy part).

Even if the online registration takes an equal amount of time to filling in a card at the event, there is a preference to get the registration done sooner rather than later. I can register online whenever I have a few minutes at any time prior to the event. When I arrive, that is just one less thing to think about. That is a definite convenience.

-B
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Randy Chase »

But almost all of this below (checks and mail) are about practice days... which are a different subject. I know the issues overlap. To me, I would 100% agree that the printing out a form, cutting the slip, filling it out, making a check, mailing it... is silly and should be gotten rid of. I hate it and I will miss practice days because I am not good at that stuff. Online I can handle.

But getting the region to agree to online registration for a closed practice event (limited entries) is different than changing the reg process for champ days.

I do wonder... it might be worth looking into as a test. A club has more flexibility in how the handle and structure a practice day. As a club, I can set pricing (within reason), who gets priority, limits, run order and times. One club could also set up online payment and registration and see how it flies. It could be worth doing.

I would be all for that if the region did not go crazy because SCNAX did that. :) They might.

Quoc-Viet Dang wrote:
Randy Chase wrote:Good, then you do understand that doing this online at this time, does not change the cards at all? That would have to be a different solution or proposal.
The cards a bigger deal to me than online registration. However, online registration can be used to also solve the card issue (requires a larger overhaul, lots has to change, I'm sure, but just saying). Hence, I suggested changing the cards first; once that change is in place, converting to an online registration system should be even easier - less stuff written down = less stuff that needs to be transferred into a computer.

I understand that. It's the same basic problem/solution regarding online registration.

-----------------------------

PROBLEM:
- Trying to make the lives of the typical & new entrants easier. I don't like having to buy stamps, envelopes, and checks almost exclusively for SD AutoX.

WHAT TO DO:
- 1) Online registration. I already get an email when certain events are available. I'm in front of my computer most of the day already. I get a confirmation right away when I register online.

HOW TO DO IT:
- 1) Use any online registration system.

WHAT DOES THIS SOLVE?
- Makes the lives of the paying customers slightly better, even if it just saves me 5 seconds because there is beauty in efficiency.

Again, as an entrant, it doesn't matter to me what you do behind the scenes or how you optimize other stuff. All I care about is I prefer online registration over mail-in registration. I believe for LA region, for a while, we even allowed both - you were given confirmation online that your entry has been received but does not guarantee entry until after a certain date (for mail-in people to have time to get their registration in).
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Warren Leach
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Warren Leach »

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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Craig Naylor »

Randy Chase wrote:Why does the club care if you save 5 minutes? I know it sounds bizarre...but it is a serious question. If you spend a couple minutes at the table BEFORE you come to registration, how does that impact the club?...
While not necessary your personal opinion, your statement above definitely represents the attitude of most reps, and the Board in SD. To answer the question, it's called customer service. Like it or not, the entrants are customers, without them there is no event.

As mentioned on the SD forum, I'm probably the only (semi?) active person who has served on the board as a Club rep in both regions. The biggest difference I see in the two regions? Though not perfect in implementing, the LA Board and reps, get that they are providing a service, and the participants are customers, and the focus of changes over the last few years has been driven by that change in attitude. Most SD clubs (and or reps) represent their personal interests, and not a unified offering to the public.

Before proposals, before convincing Reps of benefits, before anything else, IMHO that is the first "broken" that needs fixed. But then perspective comes into play, those same clubs in SD don't see that as broken, and that's their right too.
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by John Fendel »

In LA there was resistance to the online registration too. There is always resistance to change. We implemented our own custom registration software for a while before going to MotorsportsReg.
Both solutions took a while to gain acceptance, but online reg is now accepted and I think would be expected by new participants who are more used to doing things online.
MotorsportsReg isn't perfect, but it works for us for now and there is incentive for them to keep improving it or someone else will come along with something better.
For the regular competitor, having the registration information on line and having to click a few keys, makes registering for an event easy and fast and you can do it when it is convenient.
For the first timer it will take some time to set up their information, but they won't have to do it again. And they can still come to the event and fill out a reg card there.
Having almost everyone pre-reg helps the event organizers balance the run groups and enter all the entrant data into the timing system ahead of time. This helps the event get started on time and run smoother because the reg crew doesn't have to manually enter the data the morning of the event and there are fewer errors reading written info on the cards. This leads to a better, more professional experience for the participants and maybe they will come again.
Practices are different animals and each club handles reg the way they want. I don't know if that will ever change.
What I did when we used reg cards is: I took home a blank reg card and typed in the information. I then scanned it and printed it on card stock on my printer and put several cards in the car.
At an event I just signed and dated the card and turned it in at registration with my payment. I didn't have to fill it out each time and reg could read it.
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Jayson Woodruff
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Jayson Woodruff »

As mentioned on the SD forum, I'm probably the only (semi?) active person who has served on the board as a Club rep in both regions.
Maybe not ;-)

My biggest driver to online registration is getting competitors to make a public commitment, which makes them much less likely to 'flake'.

I personally don't like MSR. It doesn't always cooperate with me as an entrant now, nor as an organizer 5yrs ago. I use MyAutoEvents for the RallyXes, but don't think that's a great solution for our much larger AutoXes either (although many AutoX regions use them).

I actually liked Will's old simple system we used, at least from a competitor standpoint, I don't know if there was too much organizer work associated with it.

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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by George Schilling »

Jayson Woodruff wrote:
As mentioned on the SD forum, I'm probably the only (semi?) active person who has served on the board as a Club rep in both regions.
Maybe not ;-)

My biggest driver to online registration is getting competitors to make a public commitment, which makes them much less likely to 'flake'.

I personally don't like MSR. It doesn't always cooperate with me as an entrant now, nor as an organizer 5yrs ago. I use MyAutoEvents for the RallyXes, but don't think that's a great solution for our much larger AutoXes either (although many AutoX regions use them).

I actually liked Will's old simple system we used, at least from a competitor standpoint, I don't know if there was too much organizer work associated with it.

Jay W
From my perspective, MSR is a very easy tool to use and support is superb. I haven't been involved downloading info (Rick) or final accounting issues (KJ). But as far as producing event with the flexibility to try new things, it's been great.
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Rick Brown »

George Schilling wrote:
Jayson Woodruff wrote:
As mentioned on the SD forum, I'm probably the only (semi?) active person who has served on the board as a Club rep in both regions.
Maybe not ;-)

My biggest driver to online registration is getting competitors to make a public commitment, which makes them much less likely to 'flake'.

I personally don't like MSR. It doesn't always cooperate with me as an entrant now, nor as an organizer 5yrs ago. I use MyAutoEvents for the RallyXes, but don't think that's a great solution for our much larger AutoXes either (although many AutoX regions use them).

I actually liked Will's old simple system we used, at least from a competitor standpoint, I don't know if there was too much organizer work associated with it.

Jay W
From my perspective, MSR is a very easy tool to use and support is superb. I haven't been involved downloading info (Rick) or final accounting issues (KJ). But as far as producing event with the flexibility to try new things, it's been great.
MSR is a good tool, but I don't consider them responsive. I emailed them for years about the way they looked at index classes and they only fixed it (sort of) last year so I no longer have to spend time editing the download file to make it useable. I do understand that it's difficult to make one product that's everything to everybody, especially us with all our exceptions in our rules. From my point of view dealing with all the background stuff, AXWare's online product was much better, but it wasn't as good of a user interface, and it wasn't free. It would be nice to get back to online payment if we can address whatever problems there were, not sure what they are anymore. Seems to work fine for practices.

Part of the problem with MSR is it's created more for race events. There is a lot of "features" that have nothing to do with autox that you have to ignore or work around. A simplified version for autox would make sense.
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Re: Online Registration - Is it time? SDR Edition

Post by Jayson Woodruff »

The $$ that MSR takes is the problem. It adds up to a very large chunk. I'm embarrassed how much we spent on pre-reg fees to MSR for the '08 Divisional Series.

Paypal fees alone are a little hard to swallow, but that's probably as cheap as anyone will ever find.

Jay W
Rick Brown wrote: It would be nice to get back to online payment if we can address whatever problems there were, not sure what they are anymore. Seems to work fine for practices.
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