STX solstice discussion split from Tim's for sale thread...

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Tim Albin
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National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Tim Albin »

Sorry Marshall and Steve for my late response....Just back from vacation...

Marshall, our new co owners are Bonnie and Danny Takeda...New to autocross couple...

Steve I'm sorry to say our NB has been parked for the last 5 years. I have given up on there ever being a class where I can fix all the inherent shortcomings of a stock Miata. Of course the seb has a class to run in but I have declined to run in C/S against our superior Solstice or in an underdog position in STR. Ryan would be in the STR mix but out of principle it stays parked.
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

Doesn't the NB become the car to have in next years EStreet?
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Ed Holley »

Steve Ekstrand wrote:Doesn't the NB become the car to have in next years EStreet?
Seems to me that's true. I'd love to have it...or drive it. ;)
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Marshall Grice »

Tim Albin wrote:Sorry Marshall and Steve for my late response....Just back from vacation...

Marshall, our new co owners are Bonnie and Danny Takeda...New to autocross couple...

Steve I'm sorry to say our NB has been parked for the last 5 years. I have given up on there ever being a class where I can fix all the inherent shortcomings of a stock Miata. Of course the seb has a class to run in but I have declined to run in C/S against our superior Solstice or in an underdog position in STR. Ryan would be in the STR mix but out of principle it stays parked.
cool.

NB=>CSP. all short comings are fixed.
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Tim Albin »

Yes our NB would be the one to beat nationally. We are not really interested in running it in E/Street. I have no idea how the new rules are going to shake out but I am not holding my breath to run in STX for either of our C/S National Champion cars. For the life of me I can't understand why the NB or the Solstice for that matter can't go to STX like the formally B/S RX8 and the FRC and BRZ do from C/S. There is NO simple, transparent class progression from stock classes to ST in SCCA Solo rules. From my point of reference I find a plethora of convoluted combinations of dissimilar cars running against each other.

The smart guys tell me not to look at horsepower and weight because ST cars respond differently to rule sets. I say BS with a capital BS. Maybe the seb should consider placing similar cars in classes so they can respond in a similar fashion. Those same smart guys should know that AX is about prep and the bottom line is the DRIVER. I am totally in favor of like cars racing against like cars with simple, straightforward class progression from stock, to ST type prep with street tires, to Street Prepared with slicks, to forced induction cars. There is nothing like that as solo exists now.

I would be very interested in a class where all the displaced, orphaned NA's with stock Torsens, NB's, NC's along with the MR 2's that can be prepped to ST type rules. I know everyone who doesn't own a NB will say what an overdog it is but that stuff is just idle talk. Our NB was the Nat'l Champ in 07 because we learned that each of our shocks were different and required much different adjustments to achieve the balance needed. Ryan drove FANTASTICALLY. We didn't even have the fastest NB but Ryan beat it and all the MS-R's and ZOK Solstice's to boot. Wish the powers that be would recognize that it was Ryan winning in the 7th fastest car in class. Now the writing is on the wall for the Solstice has been selected to be buried too. Such is life in SCCA Solo stock classes. If I could start AX over again I would certainly avoid stock classes completely. Hindsight is 20/20....
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Tim Albin »

No Marshall...Not going there. For 18K our 99 can be a handful in STR but we are experiencing a declining income and am not going to commit anymore of our retirement money. You do make my point though. My only options for our cars are CSP or STR. Both are non starters for us. IF money were no object I am pretty sure we would be very competitive in STR. CSP has lost a bit of luster due to the price of admission.

Why can't there be a ST type class with similar cars for us to run in without going to STR?. I have heard "your Solstice is a STR car". My answer is NO we are a C/S car and the S2000 is some form of A/S and B/S cars. I think the N/C Miata guys are finding out that they are short on HP and the narrower, and lighter weight doesn't always make up. I did notice that Ken and Nick have ditched the 2010 STR winning Miata in favor of the S2000 this year. That tells me a lot. Looks like the HP of the Z Nissan and Peters skills are the new car to beat in Lincoln.

Can you tell me WHY either of our cars don't fit in as the HP to Weight underdogs in STX (and by a considerable margin at that) About 4 lbs per HP? Why can some cars in C/S go the STX and others can't? I think I know. Ryan drives both cars that are put on some sort of seb exclusion list. If we own such fast cars why doesn't everyone else go out and buy one? You can buy a Solstice for under 10K and some 99's have gone as low as $3500. See what happens Steve E. You opened my can of worms... I have become a bit opinionated in the last 50 or 60 years.
Last edited by Tim Albin on Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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STX solstice discussion split from Tim's for sale thread...

Post by Mark DeShon »

Tim Albin wrote:I want to run a class with STX type rules.
STX is the same ruleset as STR. Roughly speaking, STR is for two seater sports cars and STX is for 4+ seater sedans.
Tim Albin wrote: Why can some cars in C/S go the STX and others can't?
Different cars progress at different rates from stock to another level of prep based on their stock limitations and the allowances of the rules to undo those limitations.
Tim Albin wrote: Can you tell me WHY either of our cars don't fit as an underdog in STX?
Because you regularly run raw times right on top of the #2 STX car in the country with your C-STOCK Solstice on street tires.

Was that helpful?
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Tim Albin »

Helpful? Always nice to talk with you Mark. As you can see by my post count I have never been one for expressing my opinions over the internet even though I am more opinionated than most due to life experiences.
STX is the same ruleset as STR. Roughly speaking, STR is for two seater sports cars and STX is for 4+ seater sedans.
Went we started in 2005 with our Miata, C/S was for exactly what you just typed for STR. 2 Seater sports cars. Only problem the seb decided to put the 4+ seater RX-8 from B/S car into C/S to contend with the suspect 07 MS-R in I think 2010. By the rules the suspension package was illegal but the MS-R has dominated C/S since its inception. I bought our Solstice from Tom because Ryan thought he could beat the MS=R and I guess we proved that again. I guess you can say that we have a very fast C/S Solstice but the truth of the matter is that Ryan is the only man to ever beat a MS-R at the Nationals and he did it with both of our cars and a ZOK Solstice that he co drove in 09. By the way he was the C/S National Champ in a MS-R himself in 08.
Different cars progress at different rates from stock to another level of prep based on their stock limitations and the allowances of the rules to undo those limitations.
That is a tough one Mark. Seems that is all I have ever heard. Different competitors work at different rates so progress will be experienced at different rates too. Last time I looked there is no rule on how hard you can work to make the car as happy as possible. Do you think the Solstice a STR car?
Because you regularly run raw times right on top of the #2 STX car in the country with your C-STOCK Solstice on street tires.
Again Mark you guys have been doing a great job developing Tom's BMW. The BMW's speed speaks for itself and it seems like the car is the best it's ever been. Perfect timing for the Nationals. Sure wouldn't say that I regularly run raw times with your BMW. At the last event Jeff beat me by a cool 4+ seconds and you were not far behind him either. Steve O'Blenes was the #1 PAX guy the event before. I see STX as a great class with great competition. There are 61 entries at Lincoln and of course we would love that kind of competition. I am picking Jeff to win in Lincoln with Steve second and you bringing home a nice trophy.
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

I drive an H-Stock car that goes to CSP..... Huh?
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Tim Albin »

You make me smile Steve. You know what the smart guys tell me? Write a letter to the seb. I did after 5 years of just beating whoever they decided to throw into C/S. I truly believe we could prepare any of the cars that have been added to C/S since 2010 and Ryan would realize the same results we enjoy now. You know the old saying "you can't beat city hall" certainly applys to SCCA Solo. Ended up telling them to delete my letter because it was beyond the boards comprehension of classing structure.
Last edited by Tim Albin on Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Ira Cruz »

Like your posts Tim. You are not alone. Would like to talk to you about this situation one day. You definitely put in hours writing to city hall! You beat me!!
We can still do what we think is the right or better way to classify our cars. We can start in the local level. We can prepare cars in the national level but class them the way it should be. It is easier to change in case it doesn't work. We could just discuss it in a town (barrio) level meeting. Then we can have other
closer regions (az, sd, sf, etc) kind of agree. Then we can have our own west coast championships!! Then you don't have to touch the "fund" too much! :P
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Anthony P. »

Steve Ekstrand wrote:I drive an H-Stock car that goes to CSP..... Huh?

:roll: I drive an E-street car that goes to BSP
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Tim Albin »

We can talk at the next event Ira. Don't think there is going to be any changes in the way scca solo classes cars and creates classes. Would hope the SEB board views dissidents with some form of empathy. Of course there are some who view the SEB as having a nefarious agenda based on the history that has occurred over the years. Competitive individuals with vested interests sometimes have dissenting opinions and we seem to fall into that category.

What TimBo Motorsports has accomplished in autocross has far exceeded my expectations. We have had a great run during the last 9 years that very well may culminate with this years Nationals. Another C/S National Championship would be icing on the cake as we head into the sunset.

You know Ira that we are very fortunate to have multiple venues to run our cars. We have enjoyed running with the Porsche Club and the BMW club. Thankfully we have excellent options.
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Reijo Silvennoinen »

Ah, Tim I hear you!

The SCCA has it all wrong is what I'm hearing. They should not ban the Solitice or Miata as you describe and I agree!

There is an obvious common denominator is what I am seeing.

They should simply ban Ryan from those classes! THAT'S where the "problem" lies! (Hi Ryan! :) ) :lol: :lol:

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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Tim Albin »

Hey Reijo, long time no see. In SCCA's defense they are not banning our car. The SEB is moving the the ZOK Solstice and MS-R Miata to B/S so that every owner of a ZOK Solstice in America is hung out to dry and the MS-R owners will have to take a big PAX hit. Now it appears that the SEB is also moving the stock Solstice (like ours) to B/S. In my opinion the lightweight ZOK itself belongs in C/S let alone a stock Solstice that has never won anything. The ZOK Solstice was produced by Pontiac in a GM factory as you know; unlike the suspect MS-R that the SEB took upon it's shoulders to break it's own stock rules and allow the MS-R Miata with a 5K racing parts package to compete in C/S.

The new SEB proposal now has the stock MX5 Miata staying in C/S but for some unexplainable reason the stock Solstice that was originally stated to stay in C/S with the stock Miata is now being moved to B/S too. Of course you know the answer on that one Reijo. Simply put it's RYAN BUETZER as you already called it, the 2005 SCCA Solo Driver Of The Year (the youngest ever) and 7 time National Champion. Our Solstice is a stock Solstice with the ZOK parts package that Eric Clements used when he built our car in 2009.

The infamous 2007 SEB decision to allow the MS-R to compete in stock class has wreaked havoc for every Miata in C/S for the last 7 years. All NC Miata owners had no chance on being competitive; let alone actually being able to win anything. Then the SEB WONDERS why participation numbers continue to fall. Duh... First they allow the MS-R in stock class, then they slide down the 5 time National Champion B/S RX8 into C/S along with the high HP and weight 350 and 370Z in 2010. Miata's in general and NC's in particular have been screwed since that SEB decision. The ONLY NC Miata that has ever won a National stock class event is the lightweight base 2007 with MS-R parts package. It's no wonder you see stock NC's for a few local events and when they get beat by a mile they don't show up again. Always wondered why later Miata models couldn't put the MS-R suspension package on their cars like we did with the ZOK parts package. Again I guess you would have to ask the volunteer SEB board because it just doesn't make any sense.

I got mad at the volunteer SEB board when the original proposal changed. Ryan can compete in B/S or even A/S with our car but I don't think you will find another Solstice/driver in America that can.

The SEB has crossed my line in the sand with what I call a nefarious decision to move our stock Solstice to B/S. 1 car in America is being singled out because Ryan is so good and we have so many great people contributing their expertise to make our car so successful. Originally I did accept the ZOK's being moved because I knew our car was a stock car and the ZOK stuff could be removed and the car could be returned to stock if I chose to do so.

When this proposal was released I looked at ST classes. I saw right off that a C/S car doesn't belong in STR. I looked at STX (which on paper the Solstice is a underdog) and thought that would be great fun and be an excellent challenge for us. The move to a street tire class would get us away from arbitrary SEB classing decisions and allow us to fix all the problems we have encountered throughout our development process. I'm pretty sure we will never get a place to run. The darn Ryan factor. Funny thing is Ryan never gets upset or feel put upon in any way. He knows what he is capable of. I'm the one that feels put upon and is prepared to see if this situation gets rectified or not. Of course the value of our car is significantly reduced if we are moved to B/S because so many who are looking to buy want an overdog car. Our car is excellent but Ryan is in his own class.

Guess what Reijo. The C/S (now) B/S then 4 time Natl Champ RX8 of Jason Isley; while a member of the volunteer board got his RX8 classed in STX (what a coincidence) and the RX8 has been running in STX for the last 3 years. The C/S FSR and BRZ can run in STX too (someone tried hard to get the Twins classed in E/S) but it was already winning in C/S so it didn't happen. The RX8 weights less than 13 lbs per HP. The FSR/BRZ at less than 14 lbs per HP can run against the BMW in STX but our over 16 lbs to HP Solstice CAN NOT. The Ryan factor again. I have heard that STX is for 4 seaters and doesn't accommodate 2 seaters but classing rules get blurred depending on the situation and I can point out decisions the board has made to prove my point.

Based on weight per HP numbers one can't rule out the FRS or BRZ as being very competitive in STX in Lincoln. You know it will boil down to car prep and driver but I will bet there is a combination out there that will make STX very interesting in a couple of weeks. I know if we had a FRS for Ryan in STX he would be very difficult if not flat out impossible to beat in STX. I think the FRS would be hands down better than our Solstice in STX. Smaller car with more power and less weight is a no brainer.

OK Reijo, todays rant is over.
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Jason Isley BS RX8 »

Tim Albin wrote:Hey Reijo, long time no see. In SCCA's defense they are not banning our car. The SEB is moving the the ZOK Solstice and MS-R Miata to B/S so that every owner of a ZOK Solstice in America is hung out to dry and the MS-R owners will have to take a big PAX hit. Now it appears that the SEB is also moving the stock Solstice (like ours) to B/S. In my opinion the lightweight ZOK itself belongs in C/S let alone a stock Solstice that has never won anything. The ZOK Solstice was produced by Pontiac in a GM factory as you know; unlike the suspect MS-R that the SEB took upon it's shoulders to break it's own stock rules and allow the MS-R Miata with a 5K racing parts package to compete in C/S.

The new SEB proposal now has the stock MX5 Miata staying in C/S but for some unexplainable reason the stock Solstice that was originally stated to stay in C/S with the stock Miata is now being moved to B/S too. Of course you know the answer on that one Reijo. Simply put it's RYAN BUETZER as you already called it, the 2005 SCCA Solo Driver Of The Year (the youngest ever) and 7 time National Champion. Our Solstice is a stock Solstice with the ZOK parts package that Eric Clements used when he built our car in 2009.

The infamous 2007 SEB decision to allow the MS-R to compete in stock class has wreaked havoc for every Miata in C/S for the last 7 years. All NC Miata owners had no chance on being competitive; let alone actually being able to win anything. Then the SEB WONDERS why participation numbers continue to fall. Duh... First they allow the MS-R in stock class, then they slide down the 5 time National Champion B/S RX8 into C/S along with the high HP and weight 350 and 370Z in 2010. Miata's in general and NC's in particular have been screwed since that SEB decision. The ONLY NC Miata that has ever won a National stock class event is the lightweight base 2007 with MS-R parts package. It's no wonder you see stock NC's for a few local events and when they get beat by a mile they don't show up again. Always wondered why later Miata models couldn't put the MS-R suspension package on their cars like we did with the ZOK parts package. Again I guess you would have to ask the volunteer SEB board because it just doesn't make any sense.

I got mad at the volunteer SEB board when the original proposal changed. Ryan can compete in B/S or even A/S with our car but I don't think you will find another Solstice/driver in America that can.

The SEB has crossed my line in the sand with what I call a nefarious decision to move our stock Solstice to B/S. 1 car in America is being singled out because Ryan is so good and we have so many great people contributing their expertise to make our car so successful. Originally I did accept the ZOK's being moved because I knew our car was a stock car and the ZOK stuff could be removed and the car could be returned to stock if I chose to do so.

When this proposal was released I looked at ST classes. I saw right off that a C/S car doesn't belong in STR. I looked at STX (which on paper the Solstice is a underdog) and thought that would be great fun and be an excellent challenge for us. The move to a street tire class would get us away from arbitrary SEB classing decisions and allow us to fix all the problems we have encountered throughout our development process. I'm pretty sure we will never get a place to run. The darn Ryan factor. Funny thing is Ryan never gets upset or feel put upon in any way. He knows what he is capable of. I'm the one that feels put upon and is prepared to see if this situation gets rectified or not. Of course the value of our car is significantly reduced if we are moved to B/S because so many who are looking to buy want an overdog car. Our car is excellent but Ryan is in his own class.

Guess what Reijo. The C/S (now) B/S then 4 time Natl Champ RX8 of Jason Isley; while a member of the volunteer board got his RX8 classed in STX (what a coincidence) and the RX8 has been running in STX for the last 3 years. The C/S FSR and BRZ can run in STX too (someone tried hard to get the Twins classed in E/S) but it was already winning in C/S so it didn't happen. The RX8 weights less than 13 lbs per HP. The FSR/BRZ at less than 14 lbs per HP can run against the BMW in STX but our over 16 lbs to HP Solstice CAN NOT. The Ryan factor again. I have heard that STX is for 4 seaters and doesn't accommodate 2 seaters but classing rules get blurred depending on the situation and I can point out decisions the board has made to prove my point.

Based on weight per HP numbers one can't rule out the FRS or BRZ as being very competitive in STX in Lincoln. You know it will boil down to car prep and driver but I will bet there is a combination out there that will make STX very interesting in a couple of weeks. I know if we had a FRS for Ryan in STX he would be very difficult if not flat out impossible to beat in STX. I think the FRS would be hands down better than our Solstice in STX. Smaller car with more power and less weight is a no brainer.

OK Reijo, todays rant is over.
I see it as the process worked... Someone built an STU RX-8 and data showed it was not competitive. The car was reclassed and has shown to be a good fit. You seem to focus only on HP to weight. What about Tq, gearing, suspension design, physical dimensions, what gains does each platform get with the class allowances? Lots of factors you seem to be overlooking. I do know when I was on the SEB, we considered what could a car do in a great drivers hands, cars are not classed based on mid-pack drivers - a practice I hope is still carried on.

Had I been there I would have been in support of the CS/BS changes. Neither of those classes had been performing at a level that warranted protecting any of those cars for a number of years. In its "prime" the BS numbers under the watch of the RX-8 were in the mid to upper 20 car range, and that candle was burning out quickly. Without the MSR the NC was a non starter and CS would have likely died even quicker with only the SolSky to push it.
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Marshall Grice »

man if this thread keeps going i'm going to have to split it up and move it out of the for sale forum...
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Tim Albin »

Well Jason it's good to have knowledgeable input from a ex SEB volunteer. Always appreciate help making my points.

Let's see you said the process of classing your RX8 from STU to STX worked. I'm sure it did; for you. How sweet to get a 4 time Natl Champ B/S car moved down the next year from STU to STX. You say that someone built a STU RX8 and it was not competitive and data indicated it needed to be reclassified. Whose data? Yours? The SEB? There are those who would say that the SEB reclassed the RX8 from STU to STX for you Jason. A little bonus for all your volunteer service. You never turned a lap in STU and you and I both know you would have never prepped your RX8 for STU.

You say I seem to focus on HP to weight. I thought you would have learned some things during your foray into road racing. Don't you get that HP to weight is the primary factor? Successful racers deal with every factor down to the smallest facet of a race car. The SEB rhetoric that you mention about tq, gearing, suspension design, physical dimensions, etc are minutia but certainly everything adds up and the fast guys address everything.

In AX the DRIVER is the primary factor. In road racing I used to say the CAR is the star.

When you were on the board you say the SEB considered what great drivers could do with a car. When I started AX in 05 it seemed to my novice point of view that the cars were classed pretty good. The PAX factor was a pretty good indication of a cars capability. Classes seemed much less convoluted. I wasn't aware that the SEB uses great drivers and not mid pack drivers to evaluate cars. WHO evaluated the stock Solstice and the ZOK Solstice? If that is the criteria why aren't SEB rulings transparent? You hope the practice is carried on? Who knows what is going on? I would like to know what is the SEB's agenda really is.

Thank you Jason for provoking my thoughts with your insightful information on how the SEB evaluates cars for classing. We are so fortunate to have 2 current great drivers as members of the SEB right here in the CSCC. I would like to invite you and the two current members to do a C/S Solstice live and real evaluation at our next event at CAL SPEEDWAY. We can also invite the car builder to join in the evaluation too so there will be a lot of data realized. I have lots of rubber and I would love to give you and the SEB members the opportunity to do a real live data evaluation....REALLY looking forward to that Jason. Thanks again for your thoughts. Please RSVP on the Solstice test.
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Tim Albin »

Support the changes? Are you saying that the SEB moving the stock Solstice to B/S is something you support? Of course C/S is dying with convoluted classing decisions as one of the main factors. The MSR decision is the worst I have seen in my 9 years of solo. We could still be running our 99 Miata after all these years. Ryan would still win. It's all the guys who aren't Ryan who had to bite the bullet. The SEB screwed all the stock Miata's. There would have been 14 years worth of similar cars in C/S had the SEB followed their own rules. Tell me Jason, how many Miatas are running in stock classes now?

How can you possibly take pride and try to justify classing an illegal car to be the class overdog for the last 7 years. Please don't try to convince me because any words on that decision will fall on deaf ears. No way on earth will that decision ever resonate with reasonable thinking competitors with vested interests. You know the word psychopath comes to mind Jason. I'll help you out with the definition. A person with no conscience and no empathy. Unfortunately the psychopaths control everything on earth and every walk of life has people in positions of authority that exhibit those behaviors.

I can see that there are a lot of views on this thread but nobody answers the questions I ask. Is our stock Solstice going to be moved for achieving success against the RX8, 370Z, MS-R and ZOK Solstices? Time will tell...
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Re: National Champion Solstice For Sale

Post by Jason Isley BS RX8 »

Tim Albin wrote:Steve I'm sorry to say our NB has been parked for the last 5 years. I have given up on there ever being a class where I can fix all the inherent shortcomings of a stock Miata. Of course the seb has a class to run in but I have declined to run in C/S against our superior Solstice or in an underdog position in STR. Ryan would be in the STR mix but out of principle it stays parked.

Support the changes? Are you saying that the SEB moving the stock Solstice to B/S is something you support? Of course C/S is dying with convoluted classing decisions as one of the main factors. The MSR decision is the worst I have seen in my 9 years of solo. We could still be running our 99 Miata after all these years. Ryan would still win. It's all the guys who aren't Ryan who had to bite the bullet. The SEB screwed all the stock Miata's. There would have been 14 years worth of similar cars in C/S had the SEB followed their own rules. Tell me Jason, how many Miatas are running in stock classes now?

How can you possibly take pride and try to justify classing an illegal car to be the class overdog for the last 7 years. Please don't try to convince me because any words on that decision will fall on deaf ears. No way on earth will that decision ever resonate with reasonable thinking competitors with vested interests. You know the word psychopath comes to mind Jason. I'll help you out with the definition. A person with no conscience and no empathy. Unfortunately the psychopaths control everything on earth and every walk of life has people in positions of authority that exhibit those behaviors.

I can see that there are a lot of views on this thread but nobody answers the questions I ask. Is our stock Solstice going to be moved for achieving success against the RX8, 370Z, MS-R and ZOK Solstices? Time will tell...
You seem overly emotional about this, so there is not much point in trying to discuss it further. However, I will again attempt to correct some points to seem to be misinterpreting...

I did not say I support the agenda that is on the table, neither the moving of any of the current cars or the idea of moving to street tires. Stock as I knew and loved it will be dead under this proposal. I said that had I been on the SEB at the time I would have been in support of the CS/BS merge that put the RX-8 and MX-5 together - which just happened to kill my car in the process. Neither class was healthy enough to support itself, even when they were popular. To answer your other question, a top three finishing SS driver built and campaigned an STU RX-8, making it pretty easy to figure out the car did not fit. You can try and twist it all you want, moving the RX-8 to STX was no favor to me, I think everyone knows how I feel about autocrossing on street tires.

So now you say the MSR screwed CS, and that you would be still running your 99? But in your first post you say you don't want to run your 99 against the overdog Solstice? So which is it? Do you actually believe if left alone a non-MSR/Solstice CS would still exist? Do you honestly believe there would be enough 99s running around to warrant its own class? I am not sure where you got this idea that you would come in to Solo and the first car you bought would be the car to have for your entire Solo career.

And how in the hell do you come up with the MSR being an overdog for the last seven years? Have you looked at the results? 2012 MSR, 2011 Solstice, 2010 MSR, 2009 Solstice, 2008 MSR, 2007 NB Miata, 2006 Solstice.
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Sebastian Rios
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Re: STX solstice discussion split from Tim's for sale thread...

Post by Sebastian Rios »

Tim: You and I have had this classing conversation at length, in the Fontucky/El Toro sun a few times...While you have some good points, I think you do overlook key factors when determining the progression from Stock to ST. I would take your Solstice for STX over a BRZ/FR-S for sure.

Wishbones>mcstruts
power isn't everything
gearing on FR-S/BRZ is it's achilles, and something you can't fix in ST.

Jason: I think your argument is a little self contradictory in that you say the RX-8 was moved because it was built for STU and lost, but in the same paragraph you say that cars are considered for classing based on how they do in the hands of a great driver.
I feel bad saying it, but I wouldn't be the first, and I bet Sipe himself will tell you that he is no Ryan. His car, however is well prepared.
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Re: STX solstice discussion split from Tim's for sale thread...

Post by Tim Albin »

Overly emotional? You can say that Jason. I would describe ALL the ranting that I have done as venting my displeasure with the volunteer board. Expedient decisions particularly irk me which brings us right back to why I have ventured out to vent publically. My attempt to address the board was basically rebuffed with the customary SEB rhetoric.

One option was to just move past scca solo out of principle. After thinking about it I thought IF I don't call attention to what I perceive as wrongful decisions; who on earth is? Hence this foray into a public arena. We have always stayed out of scca politics. We did our talking at the track. Already told you that I bought the stock Solstice because of the MS-R decision.

Your attempts to correct some points you say I am misinterpreting show me you haven't been paying attention or didn't actually read what I have written. No problem Jason. I will make a final attempt to make my position very clear to you. These are the questions I would hope you take the time to answer. Only you know why you have chosen to offer your dissenting views.

1. The August SEB proposal had the stock Solstice being moved to B/S along with the ZOK Solstice and MS-R Miata. The original proposal had the stock MX5 Miata and stock Solstice staying in C/S. It is common knowledge that the ZOK Solstice is .4 to .6 faster than the stock Solstice. Of course the stock MX5 Miata was still classed in C/S but for reasons you can probably understand the stock Solstice was moved to B/S behind closed SEB doors. I saw where one insider said that nobody wrote a letter to keep the stock Solstice in C/S. I had never written a letter to the SEB. We have never asked for anything. Even when we were confronted with the bogus MS-R decision. Our plan was to beat the ZOK and MS-R with an underdog car and Ryan did exactly that. Had the SEB done the right thing and not singled out a single car and driver combination we wouldn't be having this discussion. Did I make my position clear Jason? The SEB decision to move us happened behind closed doors after the original draft was made. My bet is because we have never expressed our opinions that the SEB could just do what fits in with whatever their agenda is and I think their agenda is very apparent.

2. The MX5 certainly didn't kill your RX8. It was the MS-R and guess what Jason; it killed all the C/S cars. I have said it before and know it's time to stop venting but RYAN is the only driver who has EVER beaten the MS-R. One driver ever. You say that neither class was healthy. Well for sure C/S lost every MX5, NB and MR2. I picked C/S when I started because if I remember right there were over 50 entries in C/S. After the decision they were gone...Jason the stock Solstice and ZOK Solstice are 2 different factory configurations.

While we're on the subject can you tell me why every MX5 NC ever produced wasn't allowed to add the suspension package to their cars too? This subject would never have come up IF ALL the NC's could add the package then all the NC guys would perceive that they are in a fair situation. Seems apparent that had the SEB allowed the MS-R package to all the NC's and allowed the NB's the similar springs there would be great competition amongst similar cars. I think our NB would be competitive and Bartek's NA E/S straight timed the MS-R C/S winner last year.

3. The Solstice is a better/easier car to drive for mid pack drivers like my wife and I. I will stand by my statement that our 99 would be way more refined and faster today. You know Ryan beat all the ZOK's and MS-R's in 07 with our NB. You certainly know that Ryan straight timed your 4 time B/S National Champion RX8 with our NB many times. (Great accomplishment winning 4 straight years) Jason. Congratulations.

I'm in edit mode now. In response to your NB questions and rest of that stuff, I don't know Jason. In hindsight it turns out that YES I think we could have run the 99 Miata up until now. We might just compete against ourselves next year. The NB vs. the Solstice. The Miata might be faster. Time will tell. I told you we quit running the 99 Miata out of principle. In hindsight we probably should just kept winning with the NB...
Last edited by Tim Albin on Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: STX solstice discussion split from Tim's for sale thread...

Post by Tim Albin »

Edited this post Jason. Sorry if you read the first one.

Again you make my point about MS-R's and results. Take Ryan out of the equation and the MS-R would have won every year. That is 6 for 6 the MS-R Jason. If you and I had could choose the best car for C/S we both would take the MS-R for several reasons. We own the to best NB Miata and it is my driver with A/C installed. IF ours is parked what chance do the 100's or 1000's of Miata guys have with any other than the guys who created a car that only Ryan has proven to be true? All they want to do is have a chance. A competitor can have a great experience IF there is a perception that he can prep

2012 MSR. Ryan choose not to run in C/S. Odds are pretty good he would have won again. By the way without Ryan in C/S; E/S straight timed the winning C/S MS-R
2011 stock Solstice with ZOK package our current car. Ryan National Champ again and top PAX stock car. Didn't check results but it should been someone in a MS-R
2010 MS-R....NOT Ryan
2009 ZOK Solstice....Ryan won again in a co drive with Bud Collins with the MS-R probably second. I didn't check.
2008 MS-R...Ryan won again in a co drive
2007 NB...Ryan won and beat the ZOK Solstices and MS-R with our 99 NB

The only man on earth to ever beat a MS-R at the Nationals is Ryan and he did it with 4 different cars.
Last edited by Tim Albin on Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:27 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: STX solstice discussion split from Tim's for sale thread...

Post by Tim Albin »

I did edit this post Seb. Sorry if you read the first version. Yes we did have a conversation about the Solstice. As a matter of fact I remember telling you I wasn't concerned about the Solstice being moved to B/S because our Solstice is a stock Solstice with the ZOK package added. We could remove the ZOK stuff and be stock again. At the time the stock Solstice stayed in C/S like the stock MX5. I told you that because I wanted to sell you and Shauna the other half of our Solstice to partner up with Bonnie and Danny who bought the first half. I thought you wouldn't be interested in the Solstice if it was moved to B/S. Can't blame you. Getting re classed was never an issue in my mind because knew Eric Clements could reverse what he did when he built it. I even checked with Eric and he still has all the brake system and I have the stock springs. When I read the SEB August Draft and noticed the stock Solstice was moved with the base ZOK I knew that 1 car and 1 DRIVER was being singled out by the SEB. I have been a very grumpy old man since.

I offered you, Shauna, and Max runs in the Solstice so you would want to buy the last 1/2 share. You and Shauna both drove the Solstice like you owned it.

Your new STR ride would be much happier running with NA's NB's NC's MR2's and Solstices with STR type rules. Guess you have accepted that the s2000's and Z's come from higher classes or you wouldn't have bought Max's car. I know you are very knowledgeable. Cawthorne will swear the Miata is faster the s2000. That is what makes competition so much fun. Jeff certainly puts his money where his mouth is and I give Jeff a lot of credit. Definitely very knowledgeable and very experienced. He has owned both and prepped both the Miata and s2000 twice each and bought a FSR too boot. If a new class can be established then you and Jeff would be in the catbird's seat. Henry would probably bring his Miata back out again. How does that class sound Seb? Maybe with Jeff, Henry, Max and you doing some politicking to go along with the Solstice camp maybe that would be a nice solution. What do you think?

Of course what I said about the FRS is pure conjecture BUT that is what makes a race. Different opinions make the world go around. I think I said IF we totally prepped a FRS for Ryan he would win STX. There has never been a race that has been won on paper. I don't think there will be any shortage of the Twins in STX so as I like to say TIME WILL TELL. In my opinion Ryan is worth .2 or .3 on really good drivers...
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Re: STX solstice discussion split from Tim's for sale thread...

Post by Tim Albin »

Time to delete this thread Marshall. Open venting and ranting is over. Ryan is laughing at me for being the way I am. Re read some of the stuff I wrote and I'm laughing at myself. One of those cases where a 72 year old man went off into the red mist and exercised suspect judgement at the keyboard. I accept my human frailty and apologize for ranting in such an uncharacteristic manner. Feeling a bit contrite right now.

GOOD LUCK to everyone going to Lincoln.
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