Dec FasTrack

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

Full: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/ass ... ck-dec.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Solo: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/ass ... c-solo.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Craig Naylor]

#12465 STS & STC Combining Proposal
The STAC has provided the following proposal for member review and feedback:
Effective 2015, all cars currently classed in STC will be re-classed to STS.

The STAC keep tossing this one on the table.

These are two of the largest classes at Nationals. They pretty consistently 40+ driver classes... why do they seem intent on making and 80+ driver class? What a nightmare that would be! But in reality they won't.... they will just make one 40 car class, and drive the other 40 drivers off. I guess the intent is to repopulate other classes, and assume those in STC & STS will go fill those that are less popular?

I don't get it.

Playing Devils Advocate...
If the argument is close RTP Pax indexes, why not just toss STX in there too. The STX RTP index lies between the two. Shoot ESR & DSR only have one year left to them also, their RTP index also lies between STC & STS. Hell why not just combine STS, STC, STX, ESR & DSR into one (big happy family) class. The indexes are all within .05 of each other. There is always talk of "to many classes" this could consolidate 5 classes in one swoop! (Yes I know the proposal is for '15 after DSR & ERS disappear, my point was similarity of Pax's as it could be extrapolated elsewhere... aka slippery slope)

On the other hand... they wanted a place for cars not competitive with the STC & STS cars to play w/ ST allowances, and created STF. Those people still haven't shown up in numbers even with their own class.

Neither STC or STS are broken. Why is the STAC continually trying to "fix" the base ST classes?

[Jonathan Lugod]

[Bobby Beyer]

Just for reference
2013 Solo National Championship
STC = 25
STF = 24
STS = 20

2013 SD National Tour
STC = 9
STF = 9
STS = 5

[Craig Naylor]

I stand corrected on this years entries. However out of 41 classes contested...

STC was the 10th most populated class in Open There were 31 smaller classes.
STCL was tied for 5th most populated class in Ladies There were 21 smaller classes and, 18 uncontested classes
STS was the 16th most populated class in Open There were 25 smaller classes
STSL was tied with 6 other classes for the 10th most popular class. Ok so not so popular here... but There were 11 smaller classes, and the uncontested classes again

If combined it would be the 3rd largest open class after removing RTR (as it will itself become 9 new classes), and the largest Ladies class bar none.

Hardly sounds in need of fixing by combining to me.

[Max Hayter]

The point is that the numbers for STC ans STS are dwindling fast. Combining those classes makes sense to me.

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

The point is that the numbers for STC ans STS are dwindling fast. Combining those classes makes sense to me.

Exactly. Now that stock has been killed ST will die because the cheap tire floodgates have been opened.

[KJ Christopher]

The point is that the numbers for STC ans STS are dwindling fast. Combining those classes makes sense to me.

Yep. And the reasons for it dwindling fast (cars leaving, people leaving for other classes) all point to it not returning. The STAC's preference is to have classes that bring 40ish people to Nationals. Just as we tweaked STU due to participation, with Nationals behind us verifying the trend we've seen all year in STS/STC - it's time to act. Combining these classes will also give room for a new class, should it be decided that there is a demand.

[Marshall Grice]

i think the spac needs to put all wrx's on one line, not just the 02-07 version.

[Marshall Grice]

The point is that the numbers for STC ans STS are dwindling fast. Combining those classes makes sense to me.

Yep. And the reasons for it dwindling fast (cars leaving, people leaving for other classes) all point to it not returning. The STAC's preference is to have classes that bring 40ish people to Nationals. Just as we tweaked STU due to participation, with Nationals behind us verifying the trend we've seen all year in STS/STC - it's time to act. Combining these classes will also give room for a new class, should it be decided that there is a demand.

i think the jury is still out on weather the "fix" for STU will actually increase car counts. I think in general autox math goes something along the lines of 2+2=2.

[KJ Christopher]

The point is that the numbers for STC ans STS are dwindling fast. Combining those classes makes sense to me.

Yep. And the reasons for it dwindling fast (cars leaving, people leaving for other classes) all point to it not returning. The STAC's preference is to have classes that bring 40ish people to Nationals. Just as we tweaked STU due to participation, with Nationals behind us verifying the trend we've seen all year in STS/STC - it's time to act. Combining these classes will also give room for a new class, should it be decided that there is a demand.

i think the jury is still out on weather the "fix" for STU will actually increase car counts. I think in general autox math goes something along the lines of 2+2=2.

True, that. All we did was tweak it. Results pending. Hopefully we didn't tweak it the opposite direction....

[Sebastian Rios]

Greg spent all of those years, and $, and effort to build a great ESP car, and now they give him the boot. Not cool.

95 Octane? How will that be enforced? It's easy to smell E85, 95+ I don't know. What if I mix 100 and our crap 91, am I out of compliance?

[Marshall Grice]

Greg spent all of those years, and $, and effort to build a great ESP car, and now they give him the boot. Not cool.

95 Octane? How will that be enforced? It's easy to smell E85, 95+ I don't know. What if I mix 100 and our crap 91, am I out of compliance?

greg's not getting the boot, he gets to come play with us. He still has a great ASP car. Also the precedent was set years ago that if you win ESP in a non pony car you get moved out. M3's, evo/sti, etc. So this isn't exactly a new thing.

and agreed. 95 octane limit is ridiculous. 100 is legal in stock/street but is somehow not streetable in a higher classing level? I mean what the hell is the 'spirit' of the category that allows you to completely retune the ecu and install 1000 lb/in springs but not run high octane street legal fuel? god forbid anyone get an advantage for doing something...

the result is you have a tune that detonates like crazy and you can't drive on the street because it will blow your motor...but will win races.

[Sebastian Rios]

Greg will deal because he is rad. They should put all WRX on the same line, you are right. I know there was precedent for moving cars that have an independent rear axle once they win ESP, but still, it would be nice to have at least some stability.

[KJ Christopher]

There are two things behind the 95 octane WDTY. First, when we put out the E85 WDYT, a significant number of them said "you should ban over 93 octane too". A significant enough number that we thought about it. Then, we were told that we can get fuel testers easy/cheaply now. So, there wasn't a lot of downside to the WDYT to membership. A level of 95 was chosen to give lots of leeway around the 93 octane commonly available in the rest of the country. Perhaps it should be 94.

[Marshall Grice]

There are two things behind the 95 octane WDTY. First, when we put out the E85 WDYT, a significant number of them said "you should ban over 93 octane too". A significant enough number that we thought about it. Then, we were told that we can get fuel testers easy/cheaply now. So, there wasn't a lot of downside to the WDYT to membership. A level of 95 was chosen to give lots of leeway around the 93 octane commonly available in the rest of the country. Perhaps it should be 94.

so a significant portion of the people don't understand how fuel works so now we're going to make up some arbitrary limits just because we can cheaply measure it?

[KJ Christopher]

There are two things behind the 95 octane WDTY. First, when we put out the E85 WDYT, a significant number of them said "you should ban over 93 octane too". A significant enough number that we thought about it. Then, we were told that we can get fuel testers easy/cheaply now. So, there wasn't a lot of downside to the WDYT to membership. A level of 95 was chosen to give lots of leeway around the 93 octane commonly available in the rest of the country. Perhaps it should be 94.

so a significant portion of the people don't understand how fuel works so now we're going to make up some arbitrary limits just because we can cheaply measure it?

No. A significant portion of the people don't understand how fuel works so we're going to ask the opinion of the even more significant portion of the population if this is a good idea. Hopefully we get letters back with substance. Something that begins other than "hey, you dumbasses".

[Marshall Grice]

No. A significant portion of the people don't understand how fuel works so we're going to ask the opinion of the even more significant portion of the population if this is a good idea. Hopefully we get letters back with substance. Something that begins other than "hey, you dumbasses".

haha, good luck with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ZDhN69eMg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[KJ Christopher]

No. A significant portion of the people don't understand how fuel works so we're going to ask the opinion of the even more significant portion of the population if this is a good idea. Hopefully we get letters back with substance. Something that begins other than "hey, you dumbasses".

haha, good luck with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ZDhN69eMg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You buttmunch. Now my brain hurts.

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

No. A significant portion of the people don't understand how fuel works so we're going to ask the opinion of the even more significant portion of the population if this is a good idea. Hopefully we get letters back with substance. Something that begins other than "hey, you dumbasses".

haha, good luck with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ZDhN69eMg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You buttmunch. Now my brain hurts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Steve Ekstrand]

WTF?

Just WTF?

Convene a bunch of relatively smart and decent people onto a rules making board and the common sense gets sucked out of the room.

[Bill Schenker]

No. A significant portion of the people don't understand how fuel works so we're going to ask the opinion of the even more significant portion of the population if this is a good idea. Hopefully we get letters back with substance. Something that begins other than "hey, you dumbasses".

haha, good luck with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ZDhN69eMg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You know, there's an opening on the S.E.B., I think.... (j/k Patch!)

[Will Kalman]

Convene a bunch of relatively smart and decent people onto a rules making board and the common sense gets sucked out of the room.

[Jonathan Lugod]

Convene a bunch of relatively smart and decent people onto a rules making board and the common sense gets sucked out of the room.

I guess I am the dark hand of the bunch ...

Surprising (actually not surprising) that people forget that these are request letters that flood through over time. The changes we "propose" to the membership is in response to letters from the membership and what they ask for. There needs to be logic in the letter requests (ie. stc/sts); there are more letters with supporting arguements for combining than there are against. Its surprising how the membership complains and yet never write letters.

[Craig Naylor]

So your saying your getting letters requesting to combine ST/STS? While I understand why the STAC might want to combine based upon KJ's we want 40 car classes (even though I disagree), I don't buy that people are writing in asking they be combined so they could have a bigger class at Nationals.

If regions have small classes, they have the right to make their own classes as is often pointed out. That is not a valid reason to change a national class. If that were true just about every Mod and Prep class would have been eliminated based upon regional level competition in those classes.