R1R TW200

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Bill Martin
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R1R TW200

Post by Bill Martin »

In case anyone cares, I saw photographic evidence from SEMA that it's now official. But have no other information.

I guess the big tire companies do pay attention.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

But when does it arrive? How many local events am I going to sit out waiting?
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Pete Loney »

Steve Ekstrand wrote:But when does it arrive? How many local events am I going to sit out waiting?
Locally, 2014 STS people talked and agreed to use up what we have as a Gentlemen's agreement.
I am fine with 2014 rubber locally.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

I'm ok with that locally given it appears that 2014 isn't an advantage once 2015 rubber is available.

But I can't ask PAX class to accept that.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Jeff Wong »

Nicole and I are okay with 2014 rubber locally as well. Need to free up space in the garage anyways. :D
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Adam Tarnoff »

Kumho and Toyo will take there time on this I think.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Craig Naylor »

Steve Ekstrand wrote:I'm ok with that locally given it appears that 2014 isn't an advantage once 2015 rubber is available.

But I can't ask PAX class to accept that.
You not running in STS with us?
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Nicole Wong »

Adam Tarnoff wrote:Kumho and Toyo will take there time on this I think.
The Toyo will be out before the 4/1 deadline.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Doug Teulie »

Craig Naylor wrote:
Steve Ekstrand wrote:I'm ok with that locally given it appears that 2014 isn't an advantage once 2015 rubber is available.

But I can't ask PAX class to accept that.
You not running in STS with us?
Overall PAX and Team points are scored in addition to Class points.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

It looks like Stacey will run PAXL. I will run whatever fits on the same side of lunch with PAX. I don't matter.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

Doug makes a good point. Maybe STS needs to take a broader look at it.

I've changed my view somewhat when this was brought up at the committee level, I didn't think we should officially allow 140TW in 2014. But at least for the R1R, although it can't be proved beyond all doubt, it now appears fairly certain the 2014 and 2015 version is the same. There are other tires of course like the Federal, RE-11?, Yoko? But the R1R seems to be the biggest issue for people.

So any opinion the new star specs? I thought I read somewhere that they were worse than the straight up ZII's.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Pete Loney »

Steve Ekstrand wrote:Doug makes a good point. Maybe STS needs to take a broader look at it.

I've changed my view somewhat when this was brought up at the committee level, I didn't think we should officially allow 140TW in 2014. But at least for the R1R, although it can't be proved beyond all doubt, it now appears fairly certain the 2014 and 2015 version is the same. There are other tires of course like the Federal, RE-11?, Yoko? But the R1R seems to be the biggest issue for people.

So any opinion the new star specs? I thought I read somewhere that they were worse than the straight up ZII's.

Hmmmm.....

Personally, I am not going to buy any interim tires until the 200 TW Toyo shows up budget wise.
If I have to be excluded from team and overall points so be it.
This might be the year for me to go to Nationals in my own car and I can't waste money on tires.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Doug Teulie »

Pete Loney wrote:
Steve Ekstrand wrote:Doug makes a good point. Maybe STS needs to take a broader look at it.

I've changed my view somewhat when this was brought up at the committee level, I didn't think we should officially allow 140TW in 2014. But at least for the R1R, although it can't be proved beyond all doubt, it now appears fairly certain the 2014 and 2015 version is the same. There are other tires of course like the Federal, RE-11?, Yoko? But the R1R seems to be the biggest issue for people.

So any opinion the new star specs? I thought I read somewhere that they were worse than the straight up ZII's.

Hmmmm.....

Personally, I am not going to buy any interim tires until the 200 TW Toyo shows up budget wise.
If I have to be excluded from team and overall points so be it.
This might be the year for me to go to Nationals in my own car and I can't waste money on tires.
I am not running on Street tires so........
Proposed--->
I think we should make a local rule to allow all classes to run 140 tw till summer (June)......
Allow people to use up old 140 tires and not force them to change if they have 80% tread.
Just don't purchase any new 140 tires and if you have them burn them up ASAP. <---- NOTE, NOT A RULE AT THIS TIME.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Craig Naylor »

I already proposed that last fall, that we allow 140TW tire FOR ALL STREET TIRE Classes until the SD tour.... and it was quashed by several board types.

They're response was to buck up and buy tires. And then more or less added, if we want to save tire money we should have bought 200TW tires last year.

IMHO that was shortsighted, for us to be competitive last year... but their race tire types who have to buy tires yearly anyway, so there wasn't much sympathy for budget minded participants. One of the reasons I originally went to SK was budgetary, because street tires last more than one season.

On to the over all... STS also got slapped with a tougher PAX for '15.

While we have some NAT champions in the class, and some Nationally competitive cars.... even with last year softer PAX... STS didn't play into the YEAR END OVERALL championship. So with a tougher PAX... while an argument can be made for anything... it doesn't have legs to stand on. The team stuff.... again STS won't upset that one either. For the PAX based one, our change in PAX will compensate, for the other only one 100 can be scored in a class, and it's class based, so it does not effect anyone else.

I'm with Pete, though I'm missing the Jan event... until new tires are avail, I'll be protest bate too.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Doug Teulie »

Craig Naylor wrote:I already proposed that last fall, that we allow 140TW tire FOR ALL STREET TIRE Classes until the SD tour.... and it was quashed by several board types.

They're response was to buck up and buy tires. And then more or less added, if we want to save tire money we should have bought 200TW tires last year.
The STOCK (R) classes had notice to move to Street 200 as well. The notice was given that 200 TW was going to happen for 15 way back (I think it was in late 13 or early 14) so I can see how the board would see it that way. So if you show up with 140 TW you can run them in Time Only and then X to use up your tires. You can join your class later in the year or get tires now. Can you run in SP, P, M or SM with 140TW?
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Leonard Cachola »

Doug Teulie wrote: The STOCK (R) classes had notice to move to Street 200 as well. The notice was given that 200 TW was going to happen for 15 way back (I think it was in late 13 or early 14) so I can see how the board would see it that way.
The Street classes have known since late '13 this change was coming. (http://www.scca.com/solo/news.cfm?cid=51652) It's not like this just came up in the last month or so. Drivers have had plenty of time to prep for this change.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Jason Isley BS RX8 »

Since its such a hardship for those with 140/180tw tires that there is talk of not adopting the new standard that has been on the way for over a year, would the same opportunity to burn up existing Rs be given to the people whose classes were killed? Rs in Street. :roll:
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Bill Martin »

We do the same thing with helmets. Helmets become illegal when they are more than two Snell revisions old. For example it's currently 2015 and the Snell 2000's are set to expire. But at least in the past, SCCA has extended their use until the new helmets actually reach the shelves and we can buy them.

This tire thing is mostly about just one tire which has been the benchmark for a couple of classes. Toyo has said it will accommodate SCCA's rule change but are a few weeks from getting it done. This isn't about drivers not getting their act together having been given sufficient notice. IMO, people should be able to continue use of current tires until they can actually buy the new ones. We seem to forget that this hobby is for sport and fun.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Pete Loney »

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote:Since its such a hardship for those with 140/180tw tires that there is talk of not adopting the new standard that has been on the way for over a year, would the same opportunity to burn up existing Rs be given to the people whose classes were killed? Rs in Street. :roll:
Good way to generalize the situation Jason.

In my case it's not a general issue.
I am not wasting money on a set of non Toyo 200TW tires to run legally before the Toyo 200TW gets released.
I am investing a good chunk of my 2015 racing budget elsewhere currently.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Leonard Cachola »

Bill Martin wrote: We seem to forget that this hobby is for sport and fun.
Which is why STS went with a gentleman's agreement to allow for those with the tires to continue to run. As far as local PAX class is concerned, I don't see why anyone wouldn't let you run the old tires as a gentleman's agreement. It's not like you're buying fresh ones to compete. Right?
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Jason Isley BS RX8 »

Bill Martin wrote:We do the same thing with helmets. Helmets become illegal when they are more than two Snell revisions old. For example it's currently 2015 and the Snell 2000's are set to expire. But at least in the past, SCCA has extended their use until the new helmets actually reach the shelves and we can buy them.

This tire thing is mostly about just one tire which has been the benchmark for a couple of classes. Toyo has said it will accommodate SCCA's rule change but are a few weeks from getting it done. This isn't about drivers not getting their act together having been given sufficient notice. IMO, people should be able to continue use of current tires until they can actually buy the new ones. We seem to forget that this hobby is for sport and fun.
The same thing was done, you had all of 2014 to burn up the old stuff.

Old helmets don't age out automatically on Jan 1, 2015, its when the new standard is actually put into effect by Snell. In the case of the SA2015 it will be nearly the end of the year before they come into play.
From HJC:
We have received a number of questions regarding when the next Snell homologation standard will be implemented. The changeover to SA2015 Snell standard will take effect on October 1, 2015. For the balance of the 2014 race season and the majority of the 2015 selling season, the Snell SA2010 standard is and will be the most current standard . No manufacturer is allowed to label or sell a Snell SA2015 homologated helmet prior to October 1, 2015 per the Snell Memorial Foundation.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Jason Isley BS RX8 »

Pete Loney wrote: Good way to generalize the situation Jason.

In my case it's not a general issue.
I am not wasting money on a set of non Toyo 200TW tires to run legally before the Toyo 200TW gets released.
I am investing a good chunk of my 2015 racing budget elsewhere currently.
So is your car sitting on blocks? What is stopping you from running in SP with your 140 Toyo?
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Craig Naylor »

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote: ...you had all of 2014 to burn up the old stuff.[/i]
No... I'm not looking forward to tossing a (still) good set of tires, and I definitely can't afford to do it twice within a couple of months. I'm hardly the only one in this boat. MANY who run street tires (all the way back to the SK days) run them for multiple years. That's part of their appeal to budget minded participants.

In '14 I made it to 7 events at 4 runs each that's 28 runs. Add the Nat Tour and 2 ProSolo's , and the occasional re-run... I'm up to a little over 60 runs in '14. If I was on race rubber I'd have a good portion of a season left, but they would be starting into a down hill trajectory, going away with heat cycles. Not the same for the street rubber.

However I bought my tires for '13 SD Tour.... so I probably have 100 runs on them.... I'd need a lot more spins to "burn up" street tires in that number of runs.


... and comparing the to helmets. Your comparing apples to oranges. The 140 to 200 change is/was/ and never will be a safety related thing. The helmets are.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Doug Teulie »

The drivers that are running every event, tour, pro and practices with a few sets of wheels could get a practice set of ZII*s now and then run the Toyo when it is available. The practice set would be a bummer but they could run in class for points for the first 2 events.

If they don't get tires they have to run TO or SP. ST and Street Class attendance drops for points.

Many of the Street class driver's are driving on a single set of street tires and many of them show up to 5 or so events a year. They could have 80% tread on a older set of 140s. They have to run TO or SP. Street Class attendance drops for points.

My point is.........If it is OK for some to run 140 it should be OK for all to run 140.

For fun.... how about if 140tw drivers make it a point to hit a cone before the start until they get 200TW tires.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Marshall Grice »

200tw tires exist and everyone can buy them. if you don't like them who's fault is that? it's not like the timeline has been unfairly rushed or anything, it's been years in the making.

However, given that toyo has all but explicitly stated that the 140 and 200 tw version are identical other than the stamp on the sidewall, why should anyone care if you show up on 140tw toyos? Even in pax I wouldn't protest a 140tw toyo tire. but show up on a bridgestone or yoko <200tw tire and i'd protest.
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