R1R TW200

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Leonard Cachola
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Leonard Cachola »

Doug Teulie wrote:My point is.........If it is OK for some to run 140 it should be OK for all to run 140.
Let's be real here, I don't think anyone's going to protest running old tires at the local level. It's if someone shows up with brand new ones and expects to run those without protest that will be the problem. The rules have been out long enough for that not to happen.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Jason Isley BS RX8 »

Craig Naylor wrote: No... I'm not looking forward to tossing a (still) good set of tires, and I definitely can't afford to do it twice within a couple of months. I'm hardly the only one in this boat. MANY who run street tires (all the way back to the SK days) run them for multiple years. That's part of their appeal to budget minded participants.

In '14 I made it to 7 events at 4 runs each that's 28 runs. Add the Nat Tour and 2 ProSolo's , and the occasional re-run... I'm up to a little over 60 runs in '14. If I was on race rubber I'd have a good portion of a season left, but they would be starting into a down hill trajectory, going away with heat cycles. Not the same for the street rubber.

However I bought my tires for '13 SD Tour.... so I probably have 100 runs on them.... I'd need a lot more spins to "burn up" street tires in that number of runs.


... and comparing the to helmets. Your comparing apples to oranges. The 140 to 200 change is/was/ and never will be a safety related thing. The helmets are.
No you are not the only one in the boat faced with buying new tires this season, every R class driver (less SSR) is also buying tires. Many people will have bought fresh Rs for Natls that may only have 6-12 runs on them, and they have to buy new tires if they want to run in Street this year. There is nothing stopping you from using your existing tires for practice days, commuting, or running in SP where they would be allowed. You could even sell them to someone who would actually use them as street tires. All the same options the R comp people have.

Bill brought up the helmets as a comparison, I simply pointed out that just like in the case with the helmets you had lots of warning this was coming.

The street tire people got what they wanted and still aren't happy, that's a shock. :roll: The new tire rule impacted every Stock R comp driver (less SSR), but only those Street drivers that were not already on a 200tw, and look who is asking for an allowance.
Last edited by Jason Isley BS RX8 on Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Jason Isley BS RX8 »

Marshall Grice wrote:200tw tires exist and everyone can buy them. if you don't like them who's fault is that? it's not like the timeline has been unfairly rushed or anything, it's been years in the making.

However, given that toyo has all but explicitly stated that the 140 and 200 tw version are identical other than the stamp on the sidewall, why should anyone care if you show up on 140tw toyos? Even in pax I wouldn't protest a 140tw toyo tire. but show up on a bridgestone or yoko <200tw tire and i'd protest.
So the 140 Toyo that was excluded at one point is being brought back as the same tire with 200 on the sidewall? Who says it does not go back on the exclusion list due to magic pixie dust?
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Leonard Cachola »

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote:
The street tire people got what they wanted and still aren't happy, that's a shock. :roll:
Generalizing much, Jason? I think there's a majority in this region who are happy with the rule.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Jason Isley BS RX8 »

Leonard Cachola wrote: Let's be real here, I don't think anyone's going to protest running old tires at the local level. It's if someone shows up with brand new ones and expects to run those without protest that will be the problem. The rules have been out long enough for that not to happen.
Now you are crossing over to absurdity. Who makes the call on what is an old and what is a new tire? What if someone has a stockpile of old new tires? Following the rules seems a lot simpler.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Jason Isley BS RX8 »

Leonard Cachola wrote: Generalizing much, Jason? I think there's a majority in this region who are happy with the rule.
Happy with it so long as it does not require them to buy new tires. ;)
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Leonard Cachola »

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote: Following the rules seems a lot simpler.
Fair enough.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Leonard Cachola »

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote:
Happy with it so long as it does not require them to buy new tires. ;)
:lol:
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Jeff Wong »

I'm sure we can all agree that this topic revolves around the new 2015 STS class, Team Picks and PAX. Personally, I could care less if my eligibility for team picks and PAX are excluded because I'm running a 140UTQG R1R and the 200UTQG R1R won't be available until February or March? I just want to be eligible for those solo bucks! It is apparent though, that majority of the members within our new STS class are okay with the "gentlemen's agreement" and almost everyone within STC/STS is running a 140 and 180 UTQG tire. I am signed up in STS and will be showing up to grid with 140UTQG R1R, so if you are in STS and have a problem, please let me know in advance so I can change classes.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Nicole Wong »

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote: So the 140 Toyo that was excluded at one point is being brought back as the same tire with 200 on the sidewall? Who says it does not go back on the exclusion list due to magic pixie dust?
Jason your internet information needs updating. Haven't you heard there are 2 magic toyos now! LOL every time I hear this #unicorntires
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Sean Fenstermacher »

Jeff Wong wrote: I just want to be eligible for those solo bucks!
You Chang, brah :lol:
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Jeff Wong »

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:
Jeff Wong wrote: I just want to be eligible for those solo bucks!
You Chang, brah :lol:
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Bill Martin »

Some of you seem to have missed my point on helmets. Sometime back, a new Snell was released and official. But the helmets weren't actually on the shelves. SCCA extended the retirement date on the oldest helmets until the new helmets were actually in stock. I see that as similar to the Toyo situation.
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Re: R1R TW200

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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Leonard Cachola »

Bill Martin wrote:Some of you seem to have missed my point on helmets. Sometime back, a new Snell was released and official. But the helmets weren't actually on the shelves. SCCA extended the retirement date on the oldest helmets until the new helmets were actually in stock. I see that as similar to the Toyo situation.
The difference here is that there are 200tw alternatives readily available for purchase.
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Re: R1R TW200

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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

I chimed in on the committee board that to suspend the rule to help some simple screws others. That was based on the presumption that a faster tire was being outlawed, so allowing it still to run would put those on the 200tw tires at a disadvantage.

But info has now changed. The tire that really matters at least for STS is the 195 R1R. The pixie dust will return with a different stamp on the sidewall. Very little doubt it will be here by the tour and pro. So, at least for STS competitors Isley is mocking those who don't want to buy a new set of tires just to run 1, 2, or 3 local events that will be unsellable junk with the real tires are available. That's silly given the current lack of hardcore competition locally. I'm probably the only one in the class considering doing just that. I would not ask others to follow.

Why are the biggest internet troublemakers guys who don't even compete anymore in our sport? Big time road racer that desparate for attention they need to come down and crap all over the little people in solo?
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Doug Teulie »

Marshall Grice wrote: However, given that toyo has all but explicitly stated that the 140 and 200 tw version are identical other than the stamp on the sidewall, why should anyone care if you show up on 140tw toyos? Even in pax I wouldn't protest a 140tw toyo tire. but show up on a bridgestone or yoko <200tw tire and i'd protest.
If this is true the entire 140 Toyo phase out program was just a wast of time and side wall tooling.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

200TW aligns nicely with Good Guys type Muscle cars rules and the world of chump car and Lemons.

If the thing was a ruse to get rid of Toyo pixie dust then it was BS and they get what they get. In the threads about that tire in online forums I read the most idiotic stuff from holier than though Gods of autocross that have never even run the tire and speak totally out their ignorant asses. We ran locally just as fast on the Rivals, but they died at Lincoln. Is that Lincoln? Or does the Rival not work as well with R-Compound rubber laid down. No idea. But at least locally the Toyo is not infinitely faster. And it lasts fine. And its one of the cheapest tires. At Lincoln it really needs to be shaved, but not so at Auto Club or Qualcomm. Street tires have been shaved since the beginning of time.

The issue here is simple. The STS guys don't want to buy a set of Dunlops, Hankooks, or Rivals just to run a couple of local events, when they will need Toyo's for the Tour and Pro. The Toyos and the Rivals for example drive a little differently and require a slightly different setup. I screw up my driving and my setup enough without switching back and forth between national events and local to use up a needless set of tires. And I'm the guy both willing to spend and who has 3 sets of wheels. I could try to screw over STS to gain an advantage, but I'm not willing to do that to friends to try and grab that 3rd or 4th place trophy.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Doug Teulie »

Steve Ekstrand wrote:200TW aligns nicely with Good Guys type Muscle cars rules and the world of chump car and Lemons.............. If the thing was a ruse to get rid of Toyo pixie dust then it was BS and they get what they get...................
Steve,

Thanks for that.
I think the Toyo is going to be the tire for that application and waiting for it is what folks need to do unless they want 4 15" tire swings in the back yard. ... _ _ _ ... ... _ _ _ ... ... _ _ _ ... ... _ _ _ ... ... _ _ _ ... ... _ _ _ ... ... _ _ _ ... ... _ _ _ ... This thread has provided visibility to the issue so the region knows about it.

This is a silly idea that solves the problem.... desperate times call for desperate measures.
All you drivers are running 4 X 100 15" wheels with similar offset. How about if you all chip in and purchase just 4 200 TW tires, mount them on a single set of old wheels and you all use them. Change wheels between runs on every car in the class (It would be very fun to watch the pit work). You may need to bring a ICE BUCKET to cool them. At the end of the first two events that set of tires would be done (and all your lugs could be stripped).
Last edited by Doug Teulie on Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Jason Isley BS RX8 »

Steve Ekstrand wrote:I chimed in on the committee board that to suspend the rule to help some simple screws others. That was based on the presumption that a faster tire was being outlawed, so allowing it still to run would put those on the 200tw tires at a disadvantage.

But info has now changed. The tire that really matters at least for STS is the 195 R1R. The pixie dust will return with a different stamp on the sidewall. Very little doubt it will be here by the tour and pro. So, at least for STS competitors Isley is mocking those who don't want to buy a new set of tires just to run 1, 2, or 3 local events that will be unsellable junk with the real tires are available. That's silly given the current lack of hardcore competition locally. I'm probably the only one in the class considering doing just that. I would not ask others to follow.

Why are the biggest internet troublemakers guys who don't even compete anymore in our sport? Big time road racer that desparate for attention they need to come down and crap all over the little people in solo?
Yeah Steve, why would I have an opinion on tires after more than 20 years in the sport and seeing the category I spent most of those years in killed off. Sorry if I dont feel bad for a few of you that want your Toyo and wont pony up to buy legal tires when you had a years notice. There are a lot more stock category drivers having to buy tires or changes classes right now. And just because I am not out chasing championships does not mean I have not done events. Or is there a minimum number required per year before you can speak up?
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Craig Naylor »

Jeff Wong wrote: I just want to be eligible for those solo bucks!
You gotta win first! (Ok, so yours odds are good....)
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Kurt Rahn »

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote:Since its such a hardship for those with 140/180tw tires that there is talk of not adopting the new standard that has been on the way for over a year, would the same opportunity to burn up existing Rs be given to the people whose classes were killed? Rs in Street. :roll:
LOL. Bring 'em!
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Kurt Rahn »

Craig Naylor wrote:
Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote: ...you had all of 2014 to burn up the old stuff.[/i]
No... I'm not looking forward to tossing a (still) good set of tires, and I definitely can't afford to do it twice within a couple of months. I'm hardly the only one in this boat. MANY who run street tires (all the way back to the SK days) run them for multiple years. That's part of their appeal to budget minded participants.

In '14 I made it to 7 events at 4 runs each that's 28 runs. Add the Nat Tour and 2 ProSolo's , and the occasional re-run... I'm up to a little over 60 runs in '14. If I was on race rubber I'd have a good portion of a season left, but they would be starting into a down hill trajectory, going away with heat cycles. Not the same for the street rubber.

However I bought my tires for '13 SD Tour.... so I probably have 100 runs on them.... I'd need a lot more spins to "burn up" street tires in that number of runs.


... and comparing the to helmets. Your comparing apples to oranges. The 140 to 200 change is/was/ and never will be a safety related thing. The helmets are.
Maybe my car burned tires faster than yours, but I barely make through a season on one set, just driving myself. with Max (who's much more squirrily) i'm happy to get 2/3 a season. I usually use my more elderly sets in practice.
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Re: R1R TW200

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

Once again Isley loves to spout off, but he really has not a clue what the issues are in this discussion. Loud doesn't mean right.
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