Course data... aquisition in non-OBD2 cars

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Craig Naylor
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Course data... aquisition in non-OBD2 cars

Post by Craig Naylor » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:53 am

Received the SCCA email re: VRIB v/ AutoRacing bundle. After 30min on the phone w/ Garmin... NONE of the data (even camera derived) will display, w/o the OBD2 sensor plugged in.

I realize all engine data is out w/ a stock non-OBD2 ecu.

BUt with the VRIB, no Speed, no Accl/Braking G, or lap time, as all of these require some input from the OBD2 sensor to trigger the recording.

It will record the track shape with 3-15m accuracy, depending on satellite reception. According to them this is the best avail, for non- military usage. I know I've seen people with tracking that appears to be accurate than 15meters... is 3 meters (more than the width of a car) still the best anyone is getting?

Those w/ non- OBD2 cars, what systems are others using, and what do those systems cost?
What can you record w/o ECU data, if anything

Can your system be feed into/ or merged with GoPro footage?

Thanks

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Adam Tarnoff
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Re: Course data... aquisition in non-OBD2 cars

Post by Adam Tarnoff » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:23 am

Solostorm with a 10hz gps puck will give you most of the data you need to see where you are going fast or slow on a given course. It will derive vehicle speed from gps.
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Eddie Atherton
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Re: Course data... aquisition in non-OBD2 cars

Post by Eddie Atherton » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:33 pm

All the G-Metrix stuff is available with just the camera. None of that data relies on the ODB2 dongle.

One thing I did notice though. If you just turn on the recording with the lever, without turning the camera on first, it doesn't start recording the G-Metrix stuff until the GPS has a lock. So the first few minutes of the video will be missing it.

Oh, and by the way, just because a car has an ODB2 it doesn't mean that the camera will record the information. Following a couple of threads on the Garmin forum I'm not the only one who gets an active connection between the camera and the dongle, but nothing is recorded. I'm working with Garmin to see if they can work out what's happening.

Although I might just return the camera because I find the battery life a little on the short side. About 1hour 30 minutes tops.

Cheers.

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Craig Naylor
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Re: Course data... aquisition in non-OBD2 cars

Post by Craig Naylor » Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:31 am

Hi Eddie:

Thanks for the reply on the Garmin.

The 1st numb-skull I spoke to at Garmin, stated I could not use the camera in a car that was older than 1996.
Say what? A car is not necessary to use the camera... I can use it by hand. She was dead set on the camera was not compatible with cars older than 1996. She was having nothing to do with my attempting to explain to her the warning was specifically related to the OBD2 dongle, not the camera.

I then moved on to level two support
30 min later with multiple holds... that person stood firm that the dongle was necessary to acquire the g-metrics... and it needed powered by the OBD2 port to enable the recording of the metrics... camera, or OBD2 port sourced.

So for clarification... your currently recording g-metrics in a OBD1 (or older car)... with no dongle present in the car?

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Marshall Grice
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Re: Course data... aquisition in non-OBD2 cars

Post by Marshall Grice » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:34 am

garmin stuck a couple virbs on KJ's car at nationals one year. Definitely still gives G data without obd2.

It's important to keep in mind the differences between accuracy and precision. GPS has 3-15m accuracy (global position) but the short term precision is usually much better than that. Meaning it will draw great maps that are shifted 3-15m from they really should be. sometimes you'll drop a satellite in the middle of the run so there will be a jump in the map, not much you can do about that.

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KJ Christopher
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Re: Course data... aquisition in non-OBD2 cars

Post by KJ Christopher » Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:12 pm

Marshall Grice wrote:garmin stuck a couple virbs on KJ's car at nationals one year. Definitely still gives G data without obd2.
http://www.scca.com/videos/1972328
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Eddie Atherton
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Re: Course data... aquisition in non-OBD2 cars

Post by Eddie Atherton » Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:45 pm

Marshall Grice wrote:garmin stuck a couple virbs on KJ's car at nationals one year. Definitely still gives G data without obd2.
The lateral g-force display has been smoothed out a lot in a later version of the software since that video was shot.

To confirm, here is a snapshot showing what data you get from a Virb XE, by default, without any OBD2 dongle attached.
G-Metrix.jpg
G-Metrix.jpg (25.49 KiB) Viewed 4308 times
Now, what exactly is the Auto Racing Bundle and what do you get.

Obviously the Virb XE camera. This is the same as just buying the regular camera. It's the same exact model and accessories.

In addition to the camera, you get an OBD2 dongle, a suction mount, and a 16GB memory card.

The ODB2 dongle is a re-branded Scantool OBDLink MX, however it will not work with the Scantool application. What there is to note here, is that this dongle is no different from any other Bluetooth dongle in that it uses the ELM327 standard protocol, which means that any other ELM327 Bluetooth dongle can communicate with the camera and record the data including home-built units for vehicles that don't have OBD2 ports.

Lastly a couple of warnings, mentioned earlier. Even though the camera uses the standard ELM327 protocol, this does not guarantee that the camera will record the data correctly. I actually have the Auto Racing Bundle and can connect to the camera using either the Garmin branded Scantool or a generic BT dongle off eBay. However, neither record data, but both work perfectly with Torque. There are also threads on Garmin's forum that document the various successes and failures of different vehicles to connect. In all cases it seems like it's the vehicle that dictates this, not the dongle used, despite the fact that they are all ELM327 based. I have successfully recorded data from my wife's Prius using both dongles.

Also, I think the battery life leaves a little to be desired. I have only been able to get around 90 minutes out of a fully charged battery. This time is only dependent on the camera being turned on. There appears to be no difference in usage between actual recording and stand-by mode.

Cheers,
Eddie

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Re: Course data... aquisition in non-OBD2 cars

Post by Steve Ekstrand » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:26 pm

AIM MXL Pro works great in a non-OBD2 car.
Just requires an Amex card. And an EE degree to wire up.
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Q V
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Re: Course data... aquisition in non-OBD2 cars

Post by Q V » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:18 pm

Also, fyi, if you don't plan to use obd2 or need 1080p60, you can get the older virb elite, which is under $200 & has accel/speed along w/ standard 1080p30 or 720p60. Works great. Tom tom bandit isn't too bad either - has better resolution, but I've only used it for one event & had data drops.

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Matt Ales
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Re: Course data... aquisition in non-OBD2 cars

Post by Matt Ales » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:39 am

The main thing I dislike on the Garmin is the time delay between the video and the data. I read how to manually go in and shift the data start time but it kinda sucks that it doesn't have that compensation built in. You can see it in KJ's video. He puts his right foot to the floor for a straight while at the same time the speed is still reducing on the data. Other than that, I like mine. If I was more serious I'd probably try something else though. SoloStorm or Jeff's app probably so I can compare lap times and speeds between laps.
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