Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

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Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Stephen Yeoh » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:09 pm

Hi everybody,

For those of you that don't know who I am, let me add a little official flair to this posting - I'm the current autocross club chair :wave:

This posting is important because the nature of attendance by the various clubs has changed significantly in the last few years and it's now time to consider consolidation of the various clubs under one roof. While this may not apply to all of you, in the interest of transparency (and maybe getting more folks to step up and volunteer), we are putting this up for public review and feedback. Please post your feedback in this thread. This post will be open for feedback for 10 days only.

Below are the practical changes that would be needed to transition from the individual club model to a region model. With this, hopefully we can start to set and achieve new goals with the aims of making our events more successful for everyone and being able to offer all our members what they need to participate in autocross.
Consolidation under SoCal Solo II as “Cal Club Autocross”

1) All clubs shall be disbursed their accumulated proceeds within 30 days of approving the change to the by-laws. Clubs without a 1099 on file need to file one in order to get disbursement. Please email them to Treasurer@Solo2.com

2) Classes of members; (membership in Cal Club Autocross will be through the purchase of a points card).
a. Regular Member; all yearly points card purchasers.
b. Temporary Member; all weekend points card purchasers.

3) For the Initial year only following the consolidation of the club system, clubs that have hosted or one-half hosted an event during 2016 and are in good standing with the SoCal SoloII shall have their current club representative selected as director for the current year. Eligible clubs for 2017 include Scanx, Casoc, No$ and PSCC.
a. Additionally, one new director shall be appointed by the Chairman (presently Stephen Yeoh) until the next election cycle. (If any of current club reps wish to step down, they may, and elections will be held to fill their positions)

4) Directors (this section applies to the years following the dissolution of the club system)
a. There shall be one director for every 50 regular members as of September 1st each year.
b. Directors shall be 18 years of age or older, Regular Members in good standing, and an SCCA member. Directors may serve a maximum of two consecutive terms. Subsequent terms may be served after a one year break in service.
c. The board of directors shall consist of five elected directors with the Chairman as the presiding officer. The presiding officer shall only vote to break ties. Except, as provided in the by-laws for filling vacancies, the regular members shall elect three directors in odd numbered years and two
d. in even numbered years, each of whom shall serve two years, or until a successor is elected or appointed or such directors early resignation or removal.

5) Nominations and elections
a. At the during the month of September, self nominations for director positions shall be sent to chairman@solo2.com. A person cannot be nominated for more than one position.
b. During the October Cal Club Autocross meeting the Chairman shall present a draft ballot. A person cannot run for more than one position on the ballot.
c. Ballots shall be sent out to current regular members in good standing no later than seven days after the October meeting.
d. At the December meeting the Chairman shall present the vote counts and announce the new presiding directors. The new officers will be installed as of January 1st.
e. Club Officers (Treasurer, Secretary, Vice-Chairman, Chairman) will be voted in by the directors once per year, nominations may be sent to the chairman during the August or Sept meetings. The directors shall vote in the October meeting, with new officers “shadowing” the current officers until their installation on January 1st.

6) Removal, Resignation and Filling of Vacancies
a. Directors shall attend every Cal Club Autocross meeting, Missing more than three meetings or two consecutive meetings in a year, shall result in their automatic removal.
b. Unexpired terms shall be filled for the remainder of that term by election of the directors at the next Cal Club Autocross board meeting or by appointment by the Board Chairman.
c. An Officer or Committee member may be removed from office by action of the Cal Club Autocross Board membership. (Our existing by-laws address this in more detail)
d. Appointments to a vacancy which exceeds six months will be considered one term for tenure for Officers and one year of the term for a Director.
e. If a Director or Officer resigns their position then they must wait until the next election cycle to be nominated again. This would specifically preclude reinstalling a person that resigned any other way except by election for the membership.
Attachments
Cal_Club_Autocross_BOARD_2018_Bylaws_Changes_LP.pdf
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Stephen Yeoh
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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Anthony Porta » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:41 pm

Please read the attached document as well because the text shown are some of the goals and the wording is cleaner in the proposed by-laws
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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Jason Swindle » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:23 am

Clearly there is a goal here, and perhaps as one among many who doesn't regulatory attend board meetings, someone could state that goal in plane English.

Is it to remove the vote of any club that hasn't hosted and event in 2017?

Then as a member of one of those clubs, I would ask that we be given a chance to rectify that in 2018 before we're removed.

Thanks,
Jason

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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby George Schilling » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:09 am

Jason Swindle wrote:Clearly there is a goal here, and perhaps as one among many who doesn't regulatory attend board meetings, someone could state that goal in plane English.

Is it to remove the vote of any club that hasn't hosted and event in 2017?

Then as a member of one of those clubs, I would ask that we be given a chance to rectify that in 2018 before we're removed.

Thanks,
Jason


The goal is to change the make-up of the voting members from club representatives to directors elected from the general membership. The reason behind the proposal is the lack of participation/interest in most clubs. Because the number of votes is directly linked to club participation, most clubs have little or say in how the region is run. This does not eliminate clubs per se. What it does eliminate is direct club representation on the voting board.
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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Eric Nelson » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:03 am

This is a welcome move.

When I started Solo here in 1998, there was a requirement that I be affiliated with one of the autocross clubs. I had just joined the SCCA and I could never understand what the purpose of a club-within-a-club was supposed to be. For several years I made an effort to be involved in the governing of Cal Club / So-Cal Solo 2. I found the committees to be highly partisan in nature, along the lines of these clubs, each of which had its own signature car type and / or culture. To my mind this was not a healthy situation for a small sporting club with such large requirements.

Insurance, lot procurement, the strength of our region's delegation to the SCCA... in my experience these things work better with unity. (Sorry Stephen that was not meant to be a pun!)

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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Jason Swindle » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:06 am

Thanks for the clarification George. With that as background, re-reading the proposed change makes more sense.

Jason

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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Sean Fenstermacher » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:07 am

I like the new proposal.

It should allow for a more accurate representation of current (with the regular rotation) membership voices in leadership decisions.

And with basically only 2 clubs doing the volunteering (event hosting) and heavy reliance on E-Board hosted events the current governance model is broken.

Participation by a majority of the clubs has been on a steady decline. Of the 7 (CASOC, GRA, No$, PSCC, SCNAX, TCC, and Morgan+4) established clubs, only 2 (CASOC and SCNAX) have consistently hosted events.

A quick look at 2016 says only SCNAX, CASOC, NO$/PSCC (joint host) hosted events. Technically, GRA, TCC, and Morgan+4 should have already been eliminated as voting clubs for governance purposes. I think the last event hosted by GRA was 2014 and for Morgan+4 in 2013. Just looking at past MSR event flyers, it seems like the last time PSCC hosted an event on its own was 2014 and for No$ it was 2011. I remember correctly, TCC technically is was the "No Club"-Club, but since the inclusion of the "no-club" option in purchasing a points card, not sure what even their purpose is.

It should be noted that there is nothing unusual in the proposal. This is how it is successfully done in many other SCCA regions around the nation.

It would be nice though if there was a way to keep the names of the clubs alive.
Perhaps through renaming some of our year-end recognition awards or something similar?

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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Anthony Porta » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:21 am

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:I like the new proposal.

It would be nice though if there was a way to keep the names of the clubs alive.
Perhaps through renaming some of our year-end recognition awards or something similar?


These would be the new by-laws for governance , the supps remain the same with the "club" awards.
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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Robert Stangarone » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:44 pm

I'm not especially active in this region, but the proposal looks reasonable to me.
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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Rick Brown » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:19 pm

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:I like the new proposal.

It should allow for a more accurate representation of current (with the regular rotation) membership voices in leadership decisions.

And with basically only 2 clubs doing the volunteering (event hosting) and heavy reliance on E-Board hosted events the current governance model is broken.


This is the one thing I don't really agree with. The current system gives votes (up to 6) to the rep based on actual participation, so a vote equals a certain number of people (not exactly the same number in each club, but similar). In the director system I assume each gets 1 vote, and while each director should be concerned with what's best for the entire organization, it's a simple fact that some will be more in touch with a lot of people and some just a small clique. So some will vote based on who they hang with. One director's vote could be based on the 5 people he knows well, another's vote may represent the 50 people he socializes with. To me, that actually dilutes the representation.

The two big clubs doing most of the volunteering isn't really an issue since they are the vast majority of the members. That should allow them to spread the event responsibility over a bigger number of people, with different people taking key positions at each event. When there were 6 or 7 active clubs of similar size, each club typically did 2 events a year, which gave us more people trained in event management. Currently the two big clubs seem to pretty much have the same core people to most of the work. Not saying that's bad, it's typical of any volunteer organization. One of the reasons for the increase in E-Board hosted events was the cost of renting El Toro, which made profit sharing with the club minimal. Part of the incentive for a club to host an event was that they made money for their members.

Obviously going forward, the big focus is on getting more people involved/trained in the event management jobs. While there are some who like doing a particular job every event all year (guilty), to lessen burnout most jobs needs to be rotated.

Just to be clear, I have no problem with the new system, and agree it's necessary at this time. There will be some learning and adapting, but we will be better for it. Having been part of the system for 45 years (a majority of that in various board level positions), I've seen a lot of growth, changes, experiments and methods of running things, good and bad. Just wanted to share some of my views.
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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Sean Fenstermacher » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:42 pm

Rick Brown wrote: One of the reasons for the increase in E-Board hosted events was the cost of renting El Toro, which made profit sharing with the club minimal. Part of the incentive for a club to host an event was that they made money for their members.


True about ET, but no denying that a good amount of ACS events have been e-Board in recent years (likely due to lack of hosting by other clubs).
If no club steps up to host, seems the default is e-board.

Under the current system, the limit on votes allowed per club does limit member representation, in my opinion.
For example, SCNAX membership and event participation has exceeded CASOC's on many occasions, yet each club is limited to the same 6 votes.

As total membership will vote in the the directors, hopefully any candidates will need more than a small clique following to be selected.
Limits on repeat terms will hopefully allow for a healthy mix of veteran and new blood.

Under the current system points card holders who are not a part of any of the 7 clubs have no representation, nor avenue to become part of the decision making process (club rep, voting power, etc...) other than to lobby to voting club reps for their viewpoint. Hopefully this new system would address that.

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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Ed T » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:33 pm

Eric Nelson wrote:This is a welcome move.

When I started Solo here in 1998, there was a requirement that I be affiliated with one of the autocross clubs. I had just joined the SCCA and I could never understand what the purpose of a club-within-a-club was supposed to be.


:thumbup: Agreed! Newer member here, became part of the region last November. The whole clubs-within-a-club (Clubception?) was very confusing to me when I first joined and I still don't completely get it. Having introduced some of my friends to the region since, they also found it to be complicated and intimidating.
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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Doug Teulie » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:03 pm

Thanks Stephen.

The club landscape has changed.
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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Craig Naylor » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:12 pm

If it's stated on the internet... it must be true...Part 1

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:Under the current system points card holders who are not a part of any of the 7 clubs have no representation

How do you come to this conclusion?
1.) the no club option is new (relatively speaking)
2.) when introduced it was to be for ONE YEAR ONLY, to allow nubies to learn about the clubs, not a long term option.
3.) If you want representation, before that 1st year is up... join a club sooner.
Pretty simple.

Sean Fenstermacher wrote: nor avenue to become part of the decision making process (club rep, voting power, etc...)

This one baffles me, did something new pass forbidding new members from joining a club?

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:other than to lobby to voting club reps for their viewpoint. Hopefully this new system would address that.

And how will this be different under the new proposal?

I wasn't a fan of the "non club" option when introduced. IMHO is you want to participate enough to earn a trophy, join a club.
In years past... if you didn't volunteer to assist your club, clubs booted you. Call it conscripted volunteerism. Whether total participants were up or down... we didn't have volunteer issues.

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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Rick Brown » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:26 pm

Ed T wrote:
Eric Nelson wrote:............. I could never understand what the purpose of a club-within-a-club was supposed to be.


:thumbup: Agreed! Newer member here, became part of the region last November. The whole clubs-within-a-club (Clubception?) was very confusing to me when I first joined and I still don't completely get it. Having introduced some of my friends to the region since, they also found it to be complicated and intimidating.

History Lesson:
There were local clubs putting on events for themselves long before there was any National organization. Some realized it would be fun to compete against each other and needed a set of rules, plus it would increase their ability to get insurance. They formed an organization called the Southern California Council of Sports Car Clubs (SCCSCC) sometime in the 50's if I recall. The clubs took turns hosting events, and initially didn't even run their own event, so competitors didn't have to work, the host did it all. It was still that way when I started in the early 70's. When SCCA came along in the mid 80's and wanted to do autocrossing (Solo2) here, it was decided rather than compete with SCCA, SCCSCC would become that part of Cal Club. A contract was made maintaining autonomy for the Solo2 group from the rest of Cal Club so there was no mixing of funds (Solo2 was more profitable than Club Racing at the time). The basic SCCSCC rules were re-written somewhat, but the only thing that really changed was adopting SCCA's classes. The club system has worked fine for nearly 60 years. But things change, time to move on.
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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Craig Naylor » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:29 pm

If its stated on the internet it must be true... Part 2
Sean Fenstermacher wrote: If no club steps up to host, seems the default is e-board.

Again, not true. A board member (not club rep), with the support of another board member took the events from the clubs. Period. End of story.

Clubs who wanted more than one event, were told they could only have one event. SCNAX for example, went from three hosted events in a year, to one co-hosted the next (the 1st full year this person was elected to the board, and admittedly a low club-member year), and has remained at one event per year since, even though additional events have been requested.

This board member hated the club share/financial arrangement, felt the funds belonged to the region, so he effectively limited the club share, by limiting the club hosted events.

Reality - E-board event's became the default, and clubs were begrudgingly allowed one event a year, because the Sub-regs require them to host one per year. Without allowing that one hosted event, our current governance rules fall apart.

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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Sean Fenstermacher » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:31 pm

Craig Naylor wrote:If it's stated on the internet... it must be true...Part 1

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:Under the current system points card holders who are not a part of any of the 7 clubs have no representation

How do you come to this conclusion?
1.) the no club option is new (relatively speaking)
2.) when introduced it was to be for ONE YEAR ONLY, to allow nubies to learn about the clubs, not a long term option.
3.) If you want representation, before that 1st year is up... join a club sooner.
Pretty simple.

Sean Fenstermacher wrote: nor avenue to become part of the decision making process (club rep, voting power, etc...)

This one baffles me, did something new pass forbidding new members from joining a club?

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:other than to lobby to voting club reps for their viewpoint. Hopefully this new system would address that.

And how will this be different under the new proposal?

I wasn't a fan of the "non club" option when introduced. IMHO is you want to participate enough to earn a trophy, join a club.
In years past... if you didn't volunteer to assist your club, clubs booted you. Call it conscripted volunteerism. Whether total participants were up or down... we didn't have volunteer issues.


Okay Craig.
Please describe to us how a No Club member is represented in the eBoard?
Note that there are currently no renewal restrictions on No Club status members.

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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Rick Brown » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:34 pm

Craig Naylor wrote:If it's stated on the internet... it must be true...Part 1

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:Under the current system points card holders who are not a part of any of the 7 clubs have no representation

How do you come to this conclusion?
1.) the no club option is new (relatively speaking)
2.) when introduced it was to be for ONE YEAR ONLY, to allow nubies to learn about the clubs, not a long term option.
3.) If you want representation, before that 1st year is up... join a club sooner.
Pretty simple.

Sean Fenstermacher wrote: nor avenue to become part of the decision making process (club rep, voting power, etc...)

This one baffles me, did something new pass forbidding new members from joining a club?

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:other than to lobby to voting club reps for their viewpoint. Hopefully this new system would address that.

And how will this be different under the new proposal?

I wasn't a fan of the "non club" option when introduced. IMHO is you want to participate enough to earn a trophy, join a club.
In years past... if you didn't volunteer to assist your club, clubs booted you. Call it conscripted volunteerism. Whether total participants were up or down... we didn't have volunteer issues.

In addition, while maybe not well publicized, board meetings have always been open to anyone. While there is a 26 person limit on the current conference call meeting, it is always on the calendar at solo2.com, no membership in anything required.
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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Craig Naylor » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:14 pm

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:Please describe to us how a No Club member is represented in the eBoard?
Note that there are currently no renewal restrictions on No Club status members.


Read my response. A "No-club" member was to be for you 1st year only.... SO YOU COULD PICK A CLUB.
- At the time introduced, the club reps passed it by ONLY allowing someone to choose that option, as a new member for the 1st year.
- If that's not being enforced... then that's on the current club reps for not enforcing.

Simple answer, one acquires representation by joining a club.
- No different than voting... at your local poling place. You must pick a party... even if it's "independent" (No$ & TCC are those choices in our relm)

Do you relly think any individual will have a bigger voice by NOT being a member of a club... in a no-club future?
---- DRINK THAT kool-aid you have there, and live in that bubble.

Eliminating the clubs, will give an individual no more, and no less a individual say.
- It will do is narrow the heavy lifter volunteers even more than they are now.

In years past under the auspicious of being kicked out of your club for not showing up and working a Club sponsored event... and therefore not earning points for the year... we had many sponsoring club volunteers at every event. Club members set up course, clubs members work reg, clubs members worked TECH, and those club members also worked their assigned run group. They also filled in if run groups were short workers.
- Now in our everyone deserves a participation trophy ways, one does not have to join a club... one does not need to participate in club sponsored event... to earn a year end trophy.

The "be nice" changes over the last 10 years or so, have brought our lack of volunteers on ourselves. Our lack of club run events, was allowed to be brought upon ourselves. All of these moves, have reduced the incentive to volunteer more... and have in return placed the workload on fewer & fewer people.

IMHO this proposed change will only bring more of the same. Without inducement to volunteer, (conscripted volunteerism, as I called it above), the core will continue to shrink. Each Club had a core under the club concept, as the e-board retained events reduced those, so to did the core club volunteerism. Remove the remaining club sponsored events, and the core falls even farther. It's simple human nature.

I propose we go the opposite way, as it worked until it was fiddled with.
- Require Club membership to earn EOY points.
- Clubs need to have the balls to do so... but club's need once again... require their members to work club events. (Clubs can decide for themselves, what level of "work" that is, that may drive membership in their club)
- This will force greater participation, and reduce the workload on the few.

But hey... we live in a YOLO society... so why make/give people responsibilities. Let the few do all of the work, when they tire out... the freeloaders will just move on to the next "easy" thing to do.

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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby David Barrish » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:26 pm

Change, like making sausage is never easy or fun. But I would like to thank those who have take on this task and I commend this effort.

My tenure with this group started in 1988 co-driving a Honda CRXsi built by Oscar Jackson for Jeanie Ross. I had met Jeanie while living in Northern California and had reached out to her when my wife and I relocated to Southern California. Without hesitation she offered her car and walked me through the process and steps of becoming a SCCA and No Bucks member. Renee and Craig Angel had found a willing victim, my sticking around to help clean up at the end of an event might have been a tell. Then after 1992 my desire to compete was superseded by covering the cost of two little one in dippers. Then it was dance class and soccer. But I had hope. And the Auto Trader.

In 2000, on the cover, was a 1968 Granada Red BMW 2002. Turned out to be a one family owned car that yes was complete but completely worn out. That was mine for $400, and the cost of getting it towed home. In 2002, my first event in 10 years was a November Novice school. My first stop was registration and there to greet me were the Angles. I can't repeat what Craig said under his breath but Renee's comment on what the cat might have dragged in was spot on. I felt like I had never left.

Robert Puertis was my instructor at that event. After my first run, his first comment was "why was I at a Novice School"? My answer, because after 10 years I needed someone to confirm that I might remember how to drive an event.

Now for the reality of today. I have and will continue to encourage new, willing participants to join our monthly activity. One that requests both working and running, for three or four laps using their pride and joy that has to fit into some sort of group that no matter how fast they are willing to drive in the canyons gets killed by a green miata. How "we" help a new person manage their expectations is reflected in, do they come back for another event.

The club that I joined had a group of members that could offer guidance and direction. But I had to make my self available to do more than just run my three laps and pick up some cones. It takes both. How does the new frame work provide the first and encourage the second?

David

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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Sean Fenstermacher » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:40 pm

Craig Naylor wrote:
Sean Fenstermacher wrote:Please describe to us how a No Club member is represented in the eBoard?
Note that there are currently no renewal restrictions on No Club status members.


Read my response. A "No-club" member was to be for you 1st year only.... SO YOU COULD PICK A CLUB.
- At the time introduced, the club reps passed it by ONLY allowing someone to choose that option, as a new member for the 1st year.
- If that's not being enforced... then that's on the current club reps for not enforcing.

Simple answer, one acquires representation by joining a club.
- No different than voting... at your local poling place. You must pick a party... even if it's "independent" (No$ & TCC are those choices in our relm)

Do you relly think any individual will have a bigger voice by NOT being a member of a club... in a no-club future?
---- DRINK THAT kool-aid you have there, and live in that bubble.

Eliminating the clubs, will give an individual no more, and no less a individual say.
- It will do is narrow the heavy lifter volunteers even more than they are now.

In years past under the auspicious of being kicked out of your club for not showing up and working a Club sponsored event... and therefore not earning points for the year... we had many sponsoring club volunteers at every event. Club members set up course, clubs members work reg, clubs members worked TECH, and those club members also worked their assigned run group. They also filled in if run groups were short workers.
- Now in our everyone deserves a participation trophy ways, one does not have to join a club... one does not need to participate in club sponsored event... to earn a year end trophy.

The "be nice" changes over the last 10 years or so, have brought our lack of volunteers on ourselves. Our lack of club run events, was allowed to be brought upon ourselves. All of these moves, have reduced the incentive to volunteer more... and have in return placed the workload on fewer & fewer people.

IMHO this proposed change will only bring more of the same. Without inducement to volunteer, (conscripted volunteerism, as I called it above), the core will continue to shrink. Each Club had a core under the club concept, as the e-board retained events reduced those, so to did the core club volunteerism. Remove the remaining club sponsored events, and the core falls even farther. It's simple human nature.

I propose we go the opposite way, as it worked until it was fiddled with.
- Require Club membership to earn EOY points.
- Clubs need to have the balls to do so... but club's need once again... require their members to work club events. (Clubs can decide for themselves, what level of "work" that is, that may drive membership in their club)
- This will force greater participation, and reduce the workload on the few.

But hey... we live in a YOLO society... so why make/give people responsibilities. Let the few do all of the work, when they tire out... the freeloaders will just move on to the next "easy" thing to do.


Thank you for your input.

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George Schilling
Club Representative
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Club: CASOC
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Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby George Schilling » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:07 pm

Enjoying reading and learning from different perspectives. Please keep the comments coming.
CASOC Autocross Club, 1984 Van Diemen RF-84, 1600cc Kent, Hewland Mk9, Centerline 2 pc. wheels, Hoosier R25B, SuperTrapp, Zimmer Alloclassic titanium left hip w/Metasul LDH chromium-cobalt lg dia head

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Bill Martin
Posts: 465
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Club: GRA
Car#: 74

Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Bill Martin » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:45 pm

So glancing through the bylaws -- I assume there are only five votes, unless I've missed something. Given that, all the various minimums seem pretty awkward. 50% for one thing, 80% for another, 2/3 for something else. Jeez, there's only five votes. Do those numbers really make sense now?

On another note, whats the stated purpose of an annual points card fee? Typically you tax or fee things you wish to discourage.

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Rick Brown
Club Representative
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Club: PSCC
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Location: Lake Elsinore, CA

Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Rick Brown » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:49 pm

Bill Martin wrote:So glancing through the bylaws -- I assume there are only five votes, unless I've missed something. Given that, all the various minimums seem pretty awkward. 50% for one thing, 80% for another, 2/3 for something else. Jeez, there's only five votes. Do those numbers really make sense now?

On another note, whats the stated purpose of an annual points card fee? Typically you tax or fee things you wish to discourage.

For your first question, I agree that stuff needs to be looked at. When most clubs had 5 or 6 votes (and you didn't have to vote them all one way), it did make more sense.

For part two, in part it goes way back when we had little money and things weren't as expensive. We had trouble at the beginning of each year reserving lots because there was usually next to nothing in the treasury by the time the banquet was paid for. So points card renewals gave us the cash to start each year. Not as important now as we are better off financially. Secondly, rather than trying to discourage, having a permanent number is a benefit: you can have permanent numbers for your car, makes timing & scoring and points keeping easier. And it used to cover the cost of physical points cards and rule books.
Since light is faster than sound...many people look bright until they speak...

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Anthony Porta
Solo Safety Steward
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 30

Re: Everybody - Please read - Club consolidation

Postby Anthony Porta » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:04 pm

Bill Martin wrote:So glancing through the bylaws -- I assume there are only five votes, unless I've missed something. Given that, all the various minimums seem pretty awkward. 50% for one thing, 80% for another, 2/3 for something else. Jeez, there's only five votes. Do those numbers really make sense now?

On another note, whats the stated purpose of an annual points card fee? Typically you tax or fee things you wish to discourage.


80% or in the new by-laws 4 out of 5 is for expulsion of a board member. That's not something to be taken lightly and requires more than a simple majority.

I would like to see our permanent numbers run more like the sfr region, but this is more about the club consolidation.
http://www.anthonyporta.net Solo Safety Steward, Cal Club Autocross Treasurer


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