2017 Event Run Time Statistics

General discussions about Solo

Moderator: Mike Simanyi

User avatar
Anthony Porta
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 30

2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Anthony Porta » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:30 pm

Below are our Run Time statistics for 2017

RPH = Runs per hour incl worker changeovers
AM Time = Time an attendee spent at the site from 7:30am until the LAST run before lunch is finished
PM Time = Time an attendee spent at the site from 11:00am until the LAST run at the end of the event
Total Time = Time an event official is onsite including 30 minutes to pack the RV.

RunData2017sm.png
RunData2017sm.png (202.1 KiB) Viewed 2657 times
Last edited by Anthony Porta on Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.anthonyporta.net SOPAC solo Divisional Coordinator. Register Early for a better chance for your preferred work assignment!

User avatar
Sean Fenstermacher
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:56 pm
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 81

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Sean Fenstermacher » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:40 pm

Great data!
Is there access to cone count data to compare Sept and Dec events, as they had the highest RPH? December had a high cone count which further slowed the run pace.

User avatar
Anthony Porta
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 30

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Anthony Porta » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:49 pm

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:Great data!
Is there access to cone count data to compare Sept and Dec events, as they had the highest RPH? December had a high cone count which further slowed the run pace.


Yes I can, but it will take another couple hours worth of work to compile. I agree this is an important statistic, so bear with me and over the next few days ill update my post
http://www.anthonyporta.net SOPAC solo Divisional Coordinator. Register Early for a better chance for your preferred work assignment!

User avatar
Rick Brown
Club Representative
Posts: 4689
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 240
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Rick Brown » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:08 pm

Nice work Anthony. However, including change over in RPH distorts the info for me. I'd rather see the change over time separately, even if it's just a total for AM and PM.

Sean, no direct way to get cone totals from any of the reports, was looking for that this morning. Could probably save results as Excel and then do it. Just looking at the event in Axware, December was quite high in cones/DNFs, Sept was not as high, while above average, but also had excessive re-runs.
Since light is faster than sound...many people look bright until they speak...

User avatar
Anthony Porta
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 30

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Anthony Porta » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:19 pm

Rick Brown wrote:Nice work Anthony. However, including change over in RPH distorts the info for me. I'd rather see the change over time separately, even if it's just a total for AM and PM.


I think that is what is there.
Total Run time from start to last car before lunch / number of runs taken = AM RPH
Total Run time from start of first car after lunch / number of runs taken = PM RPH

edit: Ah yes, well since we are discussing worker swapping currently im including them so people can see how that effects our events since that is part of our event operations.

Rick Brown wrote:Sean, no direct way to get cone totals from any of the reports, was looking for that this morning. Could probably save results as Excel and then do it. Just looking at the event in Axware, December was quite high in cones/DNFs, Sept was not as high, while above average, but also had excessive re-runs.


Its under event statistics in AXware.
Last edited by Anthony Porta on Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
http://www.anthonyporta.net SOPAC solo Divisional Coordinator. Register Early for a better chance for your preferred work assignment!

David Barrish
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 58
Location: Lake Arrowhead

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby David Barrish » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:23 pm

Anthony,

Can you capture the "Average" requests when points cards holders went out of town for events?

David

User avatar
Marshall Grice
Former CSCC Overall Champion
Posts: 1537
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:27 am
Club: CASOC
Car#: 21

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Marshall Grice » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:31 pm

David Barrish wrote:Anthony,

Can you capture the "Average" requests when points cards holders went out of town for events?

David

Ok, I'm curious. How that relate to this topic? I feel like I'm missing something in your question.

User avatar
Anthony Porta
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 30

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Anthony Porta » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:00 am

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:Great data!
Is there access to cone count data to compare Sept and Dec events, as they had the highest RPH? December had a high cone count which further slowed the run pace.


Burning the midnight oil, but its Hanukkah, so for some reason one night of oil is lasting eight. lol

ConeData.png
ConeData.png (167.68 KiB) Viewed 2607 times
http://www.anthonyporta.net SOPAC solo Divisional Coordinator. Register Early for a better chance for your preferred work assignment!

User avatar
Anthony Porta
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 30

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Anthony Porta » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:37 pm

Added Average Raw, which is the average raw time for each event, including all runs. Our average for all 2017 events was 65.1 btw

RunDataavgraw.png
RunDataavgraw.png (169.13 KiB) Viewed 2579 times
http://www.anthonyporta.net SOPAC solo Divisional Coordinator. Register Early for a better chance for your preferred work assignment!

User avatar
Steve Ekstrand
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 7357
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: CASOC
Car#: 15
Location: This space left intentionally blank
Contact:

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Steve Ekstrand » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:57 pm

Remember on the December event we seemed to me to be doing really well and then the Generator problems slowed the 4th heat way way down. I had the kids down there about 45 minutes early because I hadn't anticipated the 4th taking so long compared to the first three heats. I didn't compare number of cars in each heat to see if they were balanced.
Dr. Conemangler
aka The Malefic One
2015 Wildcat Honda F600

User avatar
Jayson Woodruff
Posts: 1754
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 51

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Jayson Woodruff » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:54 pm

How about a work group duration stat.

Jay W

User avatar
Sean Fenstermacher
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:56 pm
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 81

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Sean Fenstermacher » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:15 am

Jayson Woodruff wrote:How about a work group duration stat.

Jay W


Why? Events with low RPH would also indicate long work groups.
Focusing on increasing our RPH should benefit many aspects of the experience of our events in general.

User avatar
Sean Fenstermacher
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:56 pm
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 81

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Sean Fenstermacher » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:14 am

Feedback from other regional organizers (Milwaukee, Wash DC, etc.) show that they typically are able to churn out anywhere from +950 to 1300 runs in a one day event.
If we could reach close to the 1200 runs per day level of efficiency, we would be able to provide either 4 runs per driver up to 300 drivers, or 6 runs for 200 drivers, or 8 runs for 150 drivers.

At the moment our format and level of event organization struggles to produce near the 650-700 run mark. As seen historically, we have cut runs from 4 to 3 when turnout is around 230 people (230 x 3 = 690 runs)

Ira Cruz
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: No$
Car#: 789

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Ira Cruz » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:35 pm

Other regions (maybe most) have short courses 30-4o sec

User avatar
Anthony Porta
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 30

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Anthony Porta » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:03 pm

Ira Cruz wrote:Other regions (maybe most) have short courses 30-4o sec


That doesn't directly effect runs per hour, it just means fewer cars on course at a time. Release interval is where its at.
http://www.anthonyporta.net SOPAC solo Divisional Coordinator. Register Early for a better chance for your preferred work assignment!

User avatar
Rick Brown
Club Representative
Posts: 4689
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 240
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Rick Brown » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:48 pm

When we used to have 250-300+ at events, we were more efficient. What isn't being taken into account is it adds stress to the core team. Thankfully we didn't have that turnout at all events. It also leaves little room for the car that blows up and you're down for 1/2 hour cleaning up. You end up cutting runs from a later group, where's the customer benefit in that? There was a board meeting back then where we had a very long discussion about the optimum number of people, and it wasn't near 300. Sure you can crank out 1300 runs at an event, but why would you want to all the time? Mostly just for bragging rights, I think. I don't remember what we settled on, but thinking it was in the 200-250 range depending on time of year.
Since light is faster than sound...many people look bright until they speak...

User avatar
Jayson Woodruff
Posts: 1754
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 51

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Jayson Woodruff » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:00 pm

More than RPH factor in. Number of drivers in the group and number of runs. Plus with this form of RPH, shortening between group downtime won't shorten work groups.

To compensate for not having good workers on course, we increase group size which drives up work time quickly.

Also, getting RPH up can mean needing to have more workers on course to cover cones. You can get away with half the course workers if we're just releasing on the minute.

Jay W

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:
Jayson Woodruff wrote:How about a work group duration stat.

Jay W


Why? Events with low RPH would also indicate long work groups.
Focusing on increasing our RPH should benefit many aspects of the experience of our events in general.

User avatar
Anthony Porta
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 30

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Anthony Porta » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:32 pm

Rick Brown wrote:When we used to have 250-300+ at events, we were more efficient. What isn't being taken into account is it adds stress to the core team. Thankfully we didn't have that turnout at all events. It also leaves little room for the car that blows up and you're down for 1/2 hour cleaning up. You end up cutting runs from a later group, where's the customer benefit in that? There was a board meeting back then where we had a very long discussion about the optimum number of people, and it wasn't near 300. Sure you can crank out 1300 runs at an event, but why would you want to all the time? Mostly just for bragging rights, I think. I don't remember what we settled on, but thinking it was in the 200-250 range depending on time of year.



Thank you for bringing up the stress and burnout that can come from being a core volunteer. I have seen quite a few ideas pop up over the last months as people chime in and I hope we can implement a few that will make our jobs easier. Its been a top priority that any changes I request to make the treasurer position easier don't make someone else's job harder.

The plus side for being able to do more RPH would be finishing earlier is those hot summer months, or being able to offer more "fun/practice" runs on Sunday (see more of Marshalls ideas) .

Can you speak more towards the conversation back then about what was a reasonable range? What kind of things made us more efficient and what were some of the concerns/complaints from the core members?
http://www.anthonyporta.net SOPAC solo Divisional Coordinator. Register Early for a better chance for your preferred work assignment!

User avatar
Bill Martin
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: GRA
Car#: 74

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Bill Martin » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:00 pm

Came back and re-looked at this data. Seems like an amazing amount of effort involved...but then we all moved on. Since this type of data can be available, I wonder what is being done with it? When something sticks out like a sore thumb, it would be a shame not to consider, discuss and dwell on it a bit to definitize and perhaps document lessons learned.

For example a couple events had twice average DNFs. There was also significant variation in % cars with cones. I would think these metrics are a result of course design specifics and could be improved upon if analyzed and then getting the word out.

RPH is probably a little more complex as it is subject to both efficient time management by officials but also random hits, be they event equipment failures or car-on-course failures. Still, there must be something to be learned by comparing RPH from event to event.

One metric we don't have, and I assume is not available is % event time with no cars on course. Pity as that would be a great thing to somehow minimize. Attention and discussion are the prelude to improvement. Not suggesting we agonize over last year's data so much as doing an event by event data-based review. But perhaps that's being done by others currently and I'm just not aware.

User avatar
Rick Brown
Club Representative
Posts: 4689
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 240
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Rick Brown » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:52 pm

Bill Martin wrote:One metric we don't have, and I assume is not available is % event time with no cars on course. Pity as that would be a great thing to somehow minimize. Attention and discussion are the prelude to improvement. Not suggesting we agonize over last year's data so much as doing an event by event data-based review. But perhaps that's being done by others currently and I'm just not aware.

No cars on course data is available because every finish is time stamped, so gaps can be seen. Doesn't happen too often, but there are multiple causes: Small run groups with cars that need tire/engine cooling, a grid person not fully trained in keeping things going (if someone is not ready when it's their turn, move on to someone else), taking X-runs in the same group and not getting in the 2 driver lane, computer issues (although that is often a people problem rather than the computer - can't always get fully trained people).
Since light is faster than sound...many people look bright until they speak...

User avatar
Bill Martin
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: GRA
Car#: 74

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Bill Martin » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:37 pm

I'm also thinking of the accumulations of late start, course changeovers, kart to car changeover, lunch breaks running long etc. It must occasionally add up to a depressing number when the sun is going down. There's been a lot of talk about how we used to be more efficient. Perhaps we should be looking here? There's nothing less efficient than an empty course.

User avatar
Anthony Porta
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 30

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Anthony Porta » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:23 pm

Bill Martin wrote:I'm also thinking of the accumulations of late start, course changeovers, kart to car changeover, lunch breaks running long etc. It must occasionally add up to a depressing number when the sun is going down. There's been a lot of talk about how we used to be more efficient. Perhaps we should be looking here? There's nothing less efficient than an empty course.


If anyone would like to go over more event statics and parse through the raw data I can send you the logs and anyone is welcome to look for those items. Unfortunately, the only way is either to do so manually or write a program of sorts to go through a text file. We also used to have enough participants that we could hot swap morning and afternoon work groups. Kart to car changeover is minimal considering the whole kart times are less than about 20 minutes. The starts are listed with most starting within 10 minutes of 9:00am. Yes there is time to be saved in changeovers, with hopefully continuing to run formats whenever possible that allow for hot swapping.
http://www.anthonyporta.net SOPAC solo Divisional Coordinator. Register Early for a better chance for your preferred work assignment!

User avatar
Bill Martin
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: GRA
Car#: 74

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Bill Martin » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:25 am

Your tables vary a bit, but some of them include total time. Is that total time of day time? 1st car out until last car finish? If we were to compare total time to the number of total runs x 25 seconds (my estimate of typical time between starts), would we now have a way to estimate total time of no cars on course? Can we do better than estimating the 25 seconds from your data?

I agree that most delays are minor and probably justified by the circumstances. My point is I think their total accumulation may be bigger than most of us realize. If we really wanted to improve on that stat, perhaps we could. When concerned about efficiency I see downtime as the enemy.

User avatar
Bill Martin
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: GRA
Car#: 74

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Bill Martin » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:40 am

So tell me where I'm going wrong here: January '17, 176 entries, 9:41 hrs

176 x 4 x25/60 = 293 minutes = 4.9 hrs vs 9:41 actual. This is all nominal data, no re-runs etc so just approximate. Approximate and maybe wrong -- I'm sure some will see it differently.

The difference between nearly 10 hrs and nearly 5 hrs is the downtime accumulation. Obviously much of it is justified. The question is how much and can we do anything about it? I'm bringing this up after reading the recent thread on how we need to change things up in lieu of long days and decreasing interest.

Also, the total times of 9 to 10 hours doesn't seem right. Am I misinterpreting that number? A typical 9am to 5pm would be 8 hrs.

Tony R
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:04 am

Re: 2017 Event Run Time Statistics

Postby Tony R » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:08 pm

Kudos to you guys for really digging deep into the data and asking other clubs about their processes & run counts. I think an important point to look when you're comparing to inland and east coast is that they don't have cheap track days available outside of TNiA, nor an abundance of other clubs vying for the same membership. When the options are limited and everyone is under the same banner, it's much easier to save core members from burnout by further dispersing responsibilities, and rotating seats. Plus, if you regularly have a lot of invested workers, a lot more can be done in a day.

Up north we have the same issues you guys do, so looking forward to anything you all come up with to help your situation. IMO, you guys run a far tighter ship with much better communication so I think you'll be OK.
-Tony
Auto Innovations Snowflake #87 | E Street MR2-S #86 (sold)


Return to “Solo Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests