2009 Lone Pine Time Trials

[Steve Ekstrand]

Lone Pine has been run as an outlaw event in the past with no connection to SCCA. That all changes now that SCCA is the insurance/sanction. The rulebook governs. The relevant sections have been posted.

My read is that a bolt on kit for the hardtop must be used for the hard top to mean anything.

As for the Autopower bar, I don't know the issues there very well. Hopefully, somebody knowledgeable will chime in.

[Philip Strong]

So, according to the posted rules, a bolt on hardtop is allowed but a roll bar inside the hard top is prohibited unless it is SCCA/GCR compliant and a minimum 5 point harness is utilized?

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Why would you get an Autopower instead of a Harddog?

Where/when does the helmeted head 2 inches under the roll hoop rule come in regarding use of a harness?

It is funny how Harddog claims SCCA approval of his bars, yet SCCA (HQ) does not approve bars. Kirk and Auto Power are the only ones I have seen make a GCR legal bolt in rollbar.

See pg 89 of the Club Racing GCR for the 2" reference.

Legal by tubing diameter and wall thickness, or is there something else about those?

As for the 2" reference, I'm asking how that rule reconciles with the harness requirement in a rollbar equipped car. An SP Miata with rollbar isn't going to have 2" of clearance for most drivers.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Link in the first post seems to be broken.

[Steve Lepper]

This thread is not resolving my issues - does anybody know what is going to be required / enforced this year at Lone Pine??? It is a moot point for me, as I am out of the car for several months due to breaking my kneecap coming off my mountain bike last week. My son Bret was still planning on running - we have new tires, motel reservations, and we have the Autopower bar that was going in this weekend. I think that I can also borrow a clamp on hard top for the weekend, if that would make the cut - but we have to know what the rules are going to be. As I indicated before, it seems quite late in the game to be making major changes in car elegibility - and it's still not clear to me (is it to anyone else?) what will be enforced at the event. Any help/clarification by someone in charge would be very helpful.

Long story short: if you have a bar, it has to be legal. If you have the Autopower four-point bar with a diagonal brace you should be okay there, but you will also need properly-installed harnesses: to do that in a Miata, you also need an aftermarket seat because a stock one doesn't have a place for the shoulder belts to pass through (and running them around the seat is NOT acceptable, even though you will see people do it.)

The cost effective solution for this one event would be to use a hardtop with a bolt-on kit and leave the roll bar out. If you're using stock seat belts, you have to drive with the window up. Drink lots of water.

[Rick Brown]

Link in the first post seems to be broken.

Works fine for me using Firefox.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Link in the first post seems to be broken.

Works fine for me using Firefox.

Using Firefox also. Works in Safari. I think Firefox's clumsy .pdf handling is at fault.

[Christine Berry]

Link in the first post seems to be broken.

Works fine for me using Firefox.

Using Firefox also. Blank page is all I get.

Using IE, seems to work fine.

[Quoc-Viet Dang]

Link in the first post seems to be broken.

Works fine for me using Firefox.

Using Firefox also. Works in Safari. I think Firefox's clumsy .pdf handling is at fault.

Works fine for me as well. It's 100% the way you have Firefox setup for .pdf handling (I notice this when working on other ppl's pc's). Sometimes when you update/reinstall Adobe PDF or another 3rd party pdf reader, things go haywire.

In any case, perhaps changing the tinyurl link to the actual link will help ppl (if it doesn't load for them, they can right click/save as) - the link isn't that long:

http://members.quixnet.net/free2000/LonePineEntry09.pdf

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

Lone Pine has been run as an outlaw event in the past with no connection to SCCA.

Steve is correct. In the past it was run with BMWCCA insurance/sanctions via the LA chapter.

[Rick Brown]

Lone Pine has been run as an outlaw event in the past with no connection to SCCA.

Steve is correct. In the past it was run with BMWCCA insurance/sanctions via the LA chapter.

True for a few events. We actually used to deal directly with the insurance company in the old days when turnouts were bigger and insurance was cheaper.

[Mike Simanyi]

I'm posting this as a separate sticky thread so the info isn't buried in the other Lone Pine thread. This year Lone Pine is a Solo Trial event with a number of significant differences from a regular autocross. Please read this carefully and refer to the 2009 rule book for more specifics in Appendix D. These rules will be applied without exception. If you have any doubt about compliance, please ask in the Lone Pine thread.

• Novice drivers may not participate in any Solo® Trials event. Drivers in a Solo® Trials event must have experience in at least four parking lot type Solo® events within the last two years.
• Street Modified, Prepared and Modified category vehicles and all open vehicles must have a roll bar meeting current Solo Appendix C standards (exception: open cars may substitute factory hardtops equipped with bolt-in fasteners.)
• All drivers in which a roll bar or roll cage is installed shall utilize either a five-, six- or seven-point restraint harness.
• Arm restraints are required on all open cars including open targa-tops, sunroofs and T-tops.
• The single anti-submarine strap of a 5-point system shall be attached to the floor structure and have a metal-to-metal connection.
• Stock, Street Touring and Street Prepared vehicles not equipped with a roll bar or roll cage may not use an upper body restraint system other than the factory system.
• All open cars and closed cars that do not have original equipment roll up windows must be equipped with a window net or the driver must wear an approved arm restraint system.
• Vehicles with original equipment roll up windows may compete without either a window net or driver arm restraint if the driver side window is rolled up during competition. (In other words, either drive with the driver side window rolled up or use a window net or driver arm restraint.)
• All drivers must at a minimum wear 100% cotton (no blends) outer wear that effectively covers the body from neck to ankles and wrists. All drivers must wear shoes that cover the entire foot.

Edit: Our Safety Steward for the event has asked me to add a clarification about seatbelts and harnesses. For cars without an SCCA-compliant roll bar or cage, stock seatbelts must be used.

Additionally, cars with targa tops and sunroofs fastened with the stock method in their closed position are not considered "open" cars.

[Craig Naylor]

# All open cars and closed cars that do not have original equipment roll up windows must be equipped with a window net or the driver must wear an approved arm restraint system.
# Vehicles with original equipment roll up windows may compete without either a window net or driver arm restraint if the driver side window is rolled up during competition. (In other words, either drive with the driver side window rolled up or use a window net or driver arm restraint.)

Another clarification question. Does "roll up window" mean exactly that, or is it inclusive of modern day powered windows?

[Mike Simanyi]

The issue is having a window between your arm and the ground when the car goes over... the first time. *Why* that matters, I don't know. (I can't take credit for "the first time"; someone said it last night in the meeting.)

Mike

[Aaron Goldsmith]

The issue is having a window between your arm and the ground when the car goes over... the first time. *Why* that matters, I don't know. (I can't take credit for "the first time"; someone said it last night in the meeting.)

Mike

Ask Erik Strelnicks.. No you can't catch the car by sticking your arm out the window, but your instinct is to try.

[Craig Naylor]

Another clarification question. Does "roll up window" mean exactly that, or is it inclusive of modern day powered windows?

The issue is having a window between your arm and the ground when the car goes over... the first time. *Why* that matters, I don't know. (I can't take credit for "the first time"; someone said it last night in the meeting.)Mike

I understand the intent, but were being sticklers to other points above contrary to intent....
We apparently prefer convertibles with hard tops, over convertibles with hard tops and rollbars not to SCCA current specs, after stating the hard tops will crush like pancakes (or some other term).
We want harnesses in cars that solo does not allow them in. (same issue as above.)

All because thats what the "rules" require.

So again I ask the question. Do cars with electric vs. roll up windows require a net &/or arm band. Or are we letting this one slide, or will be just be surprised upon arrival?

[KJ Christopher]

So again I ask the question. Do cars with electric vs. roll up windows require a net &/or arm band. Or are we letting this one slide, or will be just be surprised upon arrival?

Seriously?

[Steve Collins]

Well, this is the last weekend of my show ( http://tacit.caltech.edu/shows.shtml ) and I was planning on doing Lone Pine, but sounds like the new rules DQ me.

Bummer.

[Quoc-Viet Dang]

Finally had time to make a decal for Lone Pine. Just a little something for attendees this year:



prototype:


Of course, it's taking me about 20-30 minutes just to put one of these together. I'll make as many as I can before next weekend. If anyone in the OC area attending wants to "weed" these out w/ me, just PM me .

Currently, they sit @ about 15"x2". I'm most likely going to make a windshield version for myself. If you want a custom size or a windshield banner version, PM me as well. These will all be free, my treat, just please leave them on for a lil while after the event (they are a b**** to make).

See you guys @ Lone Pine!

[Earl Merz]

since all prep and mod cars need rollbars and a harness, can I run STS instead? My civic is less prepared than most other STS civics. Only thing that keeps my civic out of STS normally is the D15 motor swap. But I'll be on old Azenis RT-215s. They did 20 runs last year and 8 runs the year before that. One of these days they will finally wear out.

[Steve Lepper]

Another clarification question. Does "roll up window" mean exactly that, or is it inclusive of modern day powered windows?

Yes, power or manual is the same thing.

You can tell we've spent too much time reading the Solo rulebook when we think of questions like this.

[Craig Naylor]

Another clarification question. Does "roll up window" mean exactly that, or is it inclusive of modern day powered windows?

Yes, power or manual is the same thing.

You can tell we've spent too much time reading the Solo rulebook when we think of questions like this.

Apparently everyone else though it was a stupid question, so I'll word it another way.

If someone said their car had "roll up windows" are you all telling me the first thing that comes to mind is a little lift/press button on the door console? I didn't think so.

So if roll up, isn't roll up, then whats the purpose of the inclusion of the term?

[John Coffey]

I'm betting that in Solo Trials (the same as Solo and Club Racing) you have to run with the windows down. As I've said before, the Solo Trials ruleset is the worst I've ever seen.

[Mike Simanyi]

C'mon Craig, we're done with that subject. Those windows are rolling up and down in their guides. Where's that :beating dead horse: smiley?

[Mike Simanyi]

John, the Solo Trials rules are foolishly clear. Without a window net or arm restraints drivers must run with the driver's side window rolled up.

And I agree with you - it's an inane rule.

Mike