NOTLD's Future: The Discussion and Poll

[Randy Chase]

Despite the fact that everyone else seems to have written it off (except for Doug), I think that saftey is still a large concern for this event.

If you poll the people that don't attend (waves), you may find more. I am not comfortable with the idea, but then that is just me, so I stay away.

[George Schilling]

So if you had to choose between NOTLD or a test-n-tune/Championship, what would you choose?


(actually, that could be construed as slightly off topic, oops)

Marshall Grice.....paging Marshall Grice. Seems your girlfriend is straying from topic. Please delete

[Christine Grice]

Hey Hey Hey, I'm back on topic now!

Thank you Randy for speaking up. I didn't put any limit on who could answer to poll (not that I actually can) so that people like you could give input. I am preparing a seperate survey to better judge the overall events situation but I am many iterations away from completeing that

I would prefer to stay away from this event but because it is a points event and I need every chance I can get to gain points on Marshall (not very sucessfully I might add) so I chose to run although in retrospect I probably shouldn't have due to fatigue, a headache and a complete lack of concentration.

[Jason Uyeda]

OK, I had a huge reply going but most probably wouldn't even read it... If NOTLD is really such an issue, how about we add a drop for each night event? I think we need more drops anyways...

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Yeah, that has never eaten into the number of points events.

i'm confused. How does the NOTLD being a non points event eat into the number of championships? are we unable to schedule extra event next year to make up for it, if it were to not be a points event?

I don't see why we couldn't. But I don't see any great rush down the path to make so-called "different" events non-points. That the SCNAX cup was non-points isn't relevant here; it never was going to be a points event. It started out as something to spice up an already existing 2-day practice weekend.

Regional points were earned at the divisional. How different anybody thinks the event is or isn't, each day counted as a regional for points card holders. You either earned points both days or only one day and dropped the other. Or dropped them both.

If NOTLD was a non-points event I'd probably run it. As it is, I'd rather drop it; thanks to the work schedule I used to have that's what I've been forced to do most years.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

So if you had to choose between NOTLD or a test-n-tune/Championship, what would you choose?


(actually, that could be construed as slightly off topic, oops)

I'd choose pie.

/gunnar nettleship

[Doug Teulie]

So if you had to choose between NOTLD or a test-n-tune/Championship, what would you choose?
(actually, that could be construed as slightly off topic, oops)

What would I choose?
1) Aug Test-n-tune/Championship at El Toro for points. and no extra NOTLD for no points
2) NOTLD for points and no extra Aug Championship for points but add a Nationals Test-n-tune for no points at El Toro just for Nationals drivers.

[Tom Tanquary]

Last year we had 5 lights instead of the 4 that we normally use. We should, IMHO, have 6-8 lights.

First, thanks for the nice comments about the course by so many of you. I'm learning a little bit at a time.

I also realize I had one the hardest designs of the year to do (who would want to do this?) The parameters for this event are really tough. And lighting (which means safety as much as anything) is a very big part of this. With only 4 lights you can't illuminate much of an area. To get a 45 second course as Steve would like, it would mean making it really slow to stay in the lit areas or spending a lot of time driving toward a light as the course would have to fold back on itself (like in years past). I went with a faster course and finish for the adrenaline factor but had to make it short enough to be lit as best as possible. My theory was to do a circle as such and light from the middle, which I understand is what happened last year, but I wasn't there. That more or less guarantees an even level of light without having to drive right at one. It also puts the lights at the back of most workers so they look away from it while watching course. The next part of the concept was to make it fun and challenging. But with only 4 lights you can't cover a very big circle. I agree with Glenn that this event should have at least 6 lights and 8 would be better. That would deal with safety issues and allow a better course, both in design and illumination. And cost a lot more money. It's a value call.

An aspect I really liked about this year was the chalked grid: Brilliant, Bill. I would do every event that way, no matter what style of grid. I hate tripping over cones in grid day or night.

[Kurt Rahn]

I agree with Glenn that this event should have at least 6 lights and 8 would be better. That would deal with safety issues and allow a better course, both in design and illumination. And cost a lot more money. It's a value call.

I'd be willing to pay $5-10 more in the interest of safety. It's a unique event.

An aspect I really liked about this year was the chalked grid: Brilliant, Bill. I would do every event that way, no matter what style of grid. I hate tripping over cones in grid day or night.

Agreed. It's one of those why-didn't-someone-think-of-that-before type things.

[George Schilling]

Last year we had 5 lights instead of the 4 that we normally use. We should, IMHO, have 6-8 lights.

First, thanks for the nice comments about the course by so many of you. I'm learning a little bit at a time.

I also realize I had one the hardest designs of the year to do (who would want to do this?) The parameters for this event are really tough. And lighting (which means safety as much as anything) is a very big part of this. With only 4 lights you can't illuminate much of an area. To get a 45 second course as Steve would like, it would mean making it really slow to stay in the lit areas or spending a lot of time driving toward a light as the course would have to fold back on itself (like in years past). I went with a faster course and finish for the adrenaline factor but had to make it short enough to be lit as best as possible. My theory was to do a circle as such and light from the middle, which I understand is what happened last year, but I wasn't there. That more or less guarantees an even level of light without having to drive right at one. It also puts the lights at the back of most workers so they look away from it while watching course. The next part of the concept was to make it fun and challenging. But with only 4 lights you can't cover a very big circle. I agree with Glenn that this event should have at least 6 lights and 8 would be better. That would deal with safety issues and allow a better course, both in design and illumination. And cost a lot more money. It's a value call.

An aspect I really liked about this year was the chalked grid: Brilliant, Bill. I would do every event that way, no matter what style of grid. I hate tripping over cones in grid day or night.

Very nice job Tom. Not just with the design, which worked very well, but also with the execution. Bravo.

[Tom Tanquary]

but also with the execution

Obviously I had a lot of help from Mike, Toby, Beverlee, Micheal, and Bill. They kept my mistakes to a minimum.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Tom-

I just want to make sure you understand my desire for a longer course isn't a knock on a course designer. Instead, its a reason I hate the NOTLD. I'm well aware of the lighting problem causing the short course.

As between staying up all night to run a 30 second course and risking getting run over in the paddock or having to sit through depositions for years when somebody gets killed at this event, or surviving the heat to run a 60 second course in August. I'd take the heat thank you. This isn't Texas or Vegas or Phoenix. Its SoCal. Bring sunscreen and water and get over it.

[Steve Lepper]

I agree with Glenn that this event should have at least 6 lights and 8 would be better. That would deal with safety issues and allow a better course, both in design and illumination. And cost a lot more money. It's a value call.

I'd be willing to pay $5-10 more in the interest of safety. It's a unique event.

Me too. It's only a few $ more... a small price to pay for increased safety and longer/more course options.

If we're concerned about running too late, start an hour earlier, make this a non-novice event, and/or limit the car count. Again, I don't mind paying a few $ more if it would support the smaller car count.

I didn't make it this year (2-year old battery developed a short that didn't show up until I tried to start the car to leave for the event ) but this is one of my favorite events: maybe it comes from my old drag / street racing days, but I love running in the evening. I can understand how running at 3am could be a concern for those running for points, but you're still running at the same time as your classmates, so it's still the same for everyone. Personally, I don't care about points... I'd show up either way, just because it's fun.

[Tom Tanquary]

my desire for a longer course isn't a knock on a course designer.

It wasn't taken as a knock, so not to worry. It was just a jumping off point to talk about the inherent problems with doing a night course. I think we'd all like a much longer course if possible. I'm just glad I got through it.

[Steve Ekstrand]

In past NOTLD's I've had some really scary close calls in paddock and grid. Those areas are woefully underlit. That was my point about Vegas. They may add lights for the course, but their paddock and grid have atleast the lighting of a normal mall lot. We're going to hurt somebody someday at one of these events.

[Tom Tanquary]

We're going to hurt somebody someday at one of these events.

Sadly....... I agree.

[Glenn Duensing]

We're going to hurt somebody someday at one of these events.

Sadly....... I agree.

What's really sad is all these SSS saying how bad it is yet not one has ever made an official complaint... Read your rule book. The DSSS and SSC don't respond to rumours.

[Curt Luther]

In past NOTLD's I've had some really scary close calls in paddock and grid. Those areas are woefully underlit. That was my point about Vegas. They may add lights for the course, but their paddock and grid have atleast the lighting of a normal mall lot. We're going to hurt somebody someday at one of these events.

I almost hurt myself good when I couldn't/didn't see the ramp on the trailer and tripped. I gotta agree, some more lighting in the grid, paddock areas is a must.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Does Tom Phillips have additional lighting added to his motorhome? Maybe we could have a row of motorhomes putting off lights. I have a 5500watt generator and don't mind hooking up some additional lighting to the 4 floods and 1 spot I already have mounted on the trailer.

[Ashley Armstrong]

In past NOTLD's I've had some really scary close calls in paddock and grid. Those areas are woefully underlit. That was my point about Vegas. They may add lights for the course, but their paddock and grid have atleast the lighting of a normal mall lot. We're going to hurt somebody someday at one of these events.

I almost hurt myself good when I couldn't/didn't see the ramp on the trailer and tripped. I gotta agree, some more lighting in the grid, paddock areas is a must.

Seconded.

I wanted to turn off my lights when I was pulling back into grid but it was too dark to see much of anything if I did.

[Kurt Rahn]

Couldn't read my tire gauge

[Christine Grice]

Checking tire pressures was a two person job, one holding the tire gauge and one holding a flashlight

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Checking tire pressures was a two person job, one holding the tire gauge and one holding a flashlight

Intercomp 2.5" Glow-in-the-dark gauge:

[George Schilling]

Couldn't read my tire gauge

I can't read mine in broad daylight. Do they make a model in braille.

[Mako Koiwai]

Karen wisely bought the over sized Senior mode. I'm use to holding a thin flash light (end wrapped in tape) clinched in my teeth when I'm "checking the gate" at work.