2500 versus 3500 Trucks

[Steve Ekstrand]

Thinking about trucks today....

Specifically, Dodge Ram RWD Mega Cab Cummins Automatics...
Target towing weight 14K lbs Fifth Wheel

Also my primary vehicle, not that I drive all that much anymore.

Is there a big difference in ride quality between the 2500 and the 3500? I presume yes.

And can the 2500 handle the weight of a towing 14K lbs around. I know the drivetrain can do just fine.

Since I have to drive the truck around town I'd like to avoid the 1-ton dually experience.

I remember when you couldn't get a good deal on a new Cummins truck... Man, those days are gone. Its deal city right now in Dodgeland.

[Jayson Woodruff]

Subjective observation I've made: 2500s ride pretty well unloaded and are bareable at high loads (although 14k is significaly more than my experiance). 3500s are rough unloaded, but handle much better at high loads (can lull you into forgetting to brake early).

Jay W

[Reijo Silvennoinen]

Sounds like you need to do a couple of test drives!

Trucks in general seem very refined these days so I wouldn't be surprised if the 3500 rode well!

14,000 lbs? Sounds like a bit of weight and perhaps getting close to the max and beyond of a smaller truck. But what do I know, I've never real seriously looked at anything like that.....well a little bit. Friends had the GM diesel 2500's and they seemed to haul their Caterhams and such in enclosed trailers OK at 75 mph (no 55 mph limit like here!). The big box shape of the trailer's aerodynamics also play a part is what I recall. Hmmmm.....I wonder if an aero pkg. for the trailer/truck might be a help also.....

Reijo

[Curt Luther]

Sounds like you need to do a couple of test drives!

Yeah, drive 'em. Kari's '08 2500 4x4 crew cab rides way better than her '99 F-350 4X4 crew cab did. It also rides better than Paul's 2500 4X2 std. cab. Wheelbase and the blown shocks on Paul's truck might also have a little something to do with that...

[John Coffey]

Generally a "one ton" (350, 3500) truck has at least 1,000lbs more carrying capacity then a "3/4 ton" (250, 2500). Be sure to compare the GVWR, not the Load Capacity between the two models. The one ton's have upgraded axles, bearing, tires, wheels, and sometimes frame channels. That extra capacity is not needed if you're using the truck mostly for towing. The most important figure is the GCVWR which is the weight of the truck, trailer, what's int he truck, and what's in the trailer. Don't exceed that. If you get scaled and you're over the GCVWR you are parked until you can take weight off/out.

For my F350 I had a 3,300 lb camper in the bed and towed a 8,800 lb enclosed race trailer. That combination would have been way over the GVWR on a F250. As it was, I was still about 600 lb over the rated GVWR for the F350 but 1,420 lb under the 20,000 lb. GCVWR.

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

I think Andy Mckee is using an F250 to tow his 5th wheel/car hauler.

[Robert Puertas]

I wonder if you could pull the civic up into the back of a Dodge Sprinter van?

[Eric Clements]

Get the 3500. It will be slightly more hastle around town but it will tow a big load much much better. The extra rear tires make it much more stable and make a rear tire blowout a non-event.

[Earl Merz]

I'd offer my opinion, but it's not like you'd listen to me...

[David Avard]

I wonder if you could pull the civic up into the back of a Dodge Sprinter van?

Probably, but he'd never be able to get out of the car.

And while a winch can pull it in, you still need to steer.

[David Avard]

Get the 3500. It will be slightly more hastle around town but it will tow a big load much much better. The extra rear tires make it much more stable and make a rear tire blowout a non-event.

Do blow-outs really happen that often on tow vehicles, especially well maintained ones?

And after you go test drive your Dodge, go try a Chevy. I had to whisper that one around Chrysler boy.

[Ethan West]

Just make sure to get a Super Duty with the 6.4L diesel so you can shoot some flames.

[Steve Ekstrand]

A Chevie? When you could get a cummins?

Toss it up Earl... You're a truck expert.

We're looking at getting a majorly big fifth wheel trailer with living quarters and car area big enough to house not just a 13' long 2040lbs honduh, but also a 16.9' long 3500lbs Road Runner.

I've only towed fifth wheels with 1-ton duallys (23 years ago). But I also remember that those trucks plain sucked driving back and forth to the hotel and out for food. Its hard. We'll tow a lot. And I want Stacey to be able to tow with it comfortably. But it will be my daily driver too. And I need to be able to park it in the city.

Why are all these big trailers fifth wheels? With the goosenecks you and get those cool hide away balls in the bed. We want to be able to ditch the trailer at an RV campground and drive the truck into some national parks for a day or two tossing luggage in bed with a retractable bed cover.

[Curt Luther]

I'm a Ford guy, but I really like Kari's 2500 4WD. You should get with Paul on a test drive. I think the big thing is not Cummins v. Duramax but Allison v. Aisin.

They do make quick connect/disconnect 5th wheel hitches, but yeah, a goose would be better.

[Jayson Woodruff]

The extra rear tires make it much more stable and make a rear tire blowout a non-event.

This is a pretty good point. My E350, fully loaded with new tires and more than adequite pressure, the bulge that appears in the rear tires still make me nervous.

Jay W

[Earl Merz]

Rear ride quality in a DRW truck has a lot to do with the tire you choose. Our Goodyear(OEM) rode horridly, the Bridgstones Revos were okay but steering was numb, the Michelin LTX M&S are very smooth. Yes the sidewall is softer, but I find the tire has more grip than the Revos did and they don't make as much noise. They handle the weight well(7klb truck with 7klb load on it) and wear quite good. Goodyears, I got 52kmiles out of them, Revos- 60k, the LTX M&S are at 45k now and still have 8/32 tread depth left. I keep tire pressures at 70psi in the steer and 60psi in the drives, that helps the empty ride also. If I was looking for a new truck for towing, I'd be all over the 3500. The size doesn't bother me, I park out in the boonies even with my 1500. The only thing I don't like about the 3500/DRW is doing rotations, you either have to do it yourself or be there directing the tech so he doesn't mess it up. All my DRW's ave been flat beds so it doesn't matter to me, but when you do have a blow out on the drives, usually the fender/flare gets taken out with it. If you are lucky, you'll get by with no bed damage. Touch wood... I've only had two blow outs in my life. Bald tires on my first Omni and the SoloII trailer on the way to Lone Pine(although that was more of just a tread separation). Not bad for over a million miles of driving.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Thanks Earl

I've had really bad experiences with Goodyear OEM's (though the SRT and vette guys seem to like their Goodyear Supercar tires).

I hadn't thought of tire choice making a ride difference, but I'm normally looking at sporting tires. Makes sense. I do remember on my old '67 D200 with 1-ton D60 and springs that putting on HUGE rear radials made an enormous help in the ride. That truck still wanted to rattle itself apart though without a load.

Its a hard choice because its uses are too varied. Buying a serious tow vehicle that you still want to run city errands and occassionally park in a parking structure. To me it would make sense to keep the neon for errand driving and such. Or pick up a Mini Cooper. But the wifey is more concerned about number of vehicles in the fleet than actual cost.

[Earl Merz]

The OEM Goodyears were horrid for ride. We chose the Bridgstone for the next set because people were raving about them. But with out experience with Michelins on the Semis, we tried them next and I must say, I wont be going back to the Bridgstones. We got the M/S tires purely for the fact the truck sees off road use on jobsites where an A/S might have problems(earthmovers+soft muddy dirt =speedbump).

Any problems you are going to have with the 3500 will be there with the 2500. Length is the same and unless you get a 4x4/chassiscab, the suspension is nearly the same in the front. The 3500 will take up more room in the parking space. Thats about it. And you have to allow for more room when hitting apexs on Angeles Crest.

As for the 5th wheel hitch, get a removable one. Pull a couple pins, hitch slides out, put in back of trailer.

[Steve Ekstrand]

How heavy is that removable 5th wheel hitch?

I've heard you can convert the tongue on the trailers from 5th wheel to goose pretty easily, but I would think 5th wheel is the superior setup in terms of strength. Don't really know much about it.

[Curt Luther]

How heavy is that removable 5th wheel hitch?

Probably no heavier than Robert

[Eric Clements]

Blow-outs don't happen often. I've had one in @100,000 miles of towing. Debris in road must have cut the sidewall.

Most living quarter trailers come with 5th wheels so people can legally ride in the trailer.

[Earl Merz]

How heavy is that removable 5th wheel hitch?

Probably no heavier than Robert

Reese 18k hitch Part # 30081, 120lbs
http://www.reeseprod.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Goosenecks are more stout than a standard hitch, but they do not have the carrying capacity of a 5th wheel. The King Pins I've seen on 5th wheel setups(20kGCWR) are about half the size of the king Pins we have for our trucks(80kGCWR). Goosenecks use a ball like what you use for your current trailer. Benifit of a Gooseneck is having the load centered in front of the axle instead of at the rear of the vehicle. Better balance, less likely to cause oversteer in abrupt manouvers.


IMO, based on whet you stated here, 3500DRW, Opt for engine brake, removable 5th wheel plate. You would learn what can and cannot be done quickly. Easy adjustments to overcome those problems, BUT you won't be left hanging high and dry the one time you need every last bit of capacity/room.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Given what you want to tow, you'd be close to the limit with a 2500/250. I'd go 3500/350.

One advantage with Dodge right now is the gas card and lifetime powertrain warranty, although I'm not sure either of those extend to the 3500 Cummins.

I ran the numbers on the gas card deal based on trading in a 7 year old T&C minivan for a new one, typical 5 year car loan and interest rate, 15,000 miles a year driving and gas at what was the nationwide average 3 weeks ago, $3.81 a gallon. Total savings over life of the gas card was $850.

[Steve Ekstrand]

I think the card is based on 12,000 miles per year and using and average of the city and the hwy mileage ratings.
I see the incentive listed under Ram 3500 but I don't know what they use as a mileage rating.

15mpg would be 800 gallons per year for 3 years.

The latest avg prices published yesterday for California were $4.24 for regular and $5.02 for diesel.

A difference of $2.03 times 800 is $1624. For the three years, $4,872.

I'd rather have a $4500 rebate upfront.

[Earl Merz]

15mpg

So, you will be towing 100% of the time? Irish gets high teens to low 20s empty. Mid teens towing.