Steve quit responding to messages from august, haha.Steve Ekstrand wrote:If we allow it on X-runs, then we should allow it on time only first run sets. I'd like confirmation from old guard types because this has been an area of contention...
At one point after a last run passenger ride at a Buttonwillow event resulted in a lunacy driven DSQ of ALL of a competitors runs the Solo Committee in this region made it VERY clear that it was okay to take a passenger, but that run and all subsequent runs would be scored as DNF. Prior runs would stand just fine. So, let's say five or six fast guys get sick and don't show. I smoke the STS field after two runs and I want to stand on those runs and take a third with a passenger, I can. That was the outcome of that very heated and controversial meeting. By extension, I would think you could declare all your runs DNF'd and just take a qualified passenger along.
Over the subsequent 6 years or so, who the heck knows. I've heard oldtimers at the meeting scream that it never happened. I've seen passengers yanked rudely out of the car by screaming idiots at the starting line.
Good luck to ya'.....
One additional note.... SCCA offers a free weekend membership for passengers. Its only good for being a passenger and I don't believe it offers any discount for subsequent membership applications.
Passengers allowed??
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Re: Passengers allowed??
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One signature for spectators; two for participants. Both must be witnessed by an SCCA member or signatures notarized.Aaron Goldsmith wrote:
Well I guess it depends of it it's sanctioned as a "nonspectator" event or not (and on the speedway).
Since the child waiver IS the waiver for a child, they would need to have a dualy signed waiver for any kid on the site.. though Erik would know the actual answer to this. As would many of the other parents.. I aint one of them, haha.The vast majority of Solo events are sanctioned and insured as “nonspectator”
events. Therefore, any non-participant lingering on the
event premises for more than a few moments must sign the SCCA
waiver or leave the facility.
MINOR RELEASE AND WAIVER OF LIABILITY AND INDEMNITY AGREEMENT
(READ CAREFULLY BEFORE SIGNING)
________________________________________________ ___________________________________
EVENT NAME/LOCATION EVENT DATE(S)
IN CONSIDERATION of allowing the below MINOR participant to compete, officiate, observe, work for, or participate in any way in the above event and/or activities (“Event(s)”) and/or being permitted to enter for any purpose any RESTRICTED AREA (defined as any area requiring special authorization, credentials or permission to enter or any area to which admission by the general public is restricted or prohibited, including but not limited to the competition area and any hot pit or paddock area), EACH OF THE UNDERSIGNED, for himself/herself, his/her personal representatives, heirs and next of kin agrees:
Last edited by Bob Beamesderfer on Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Passengers allowed??
Indeed, found the actual rule in the junior kart guidelines.Bob Beamesderfer wrote: One signature for spectators; two for participants. Both must be witnessed by an SCCA member or signatures notarized.
In accordance with SCCA insurance guidelines, all competing and non-competing
participants over the age of majority in the state in which the event is being conducted must sign a Release and Waiver of Liability,
Assumption of Risk and Indemnity Agreement (form MS1.) Those under
the age of majority must have a completed Minor Release and Waiver of Liability
and Indemnity Agreement (form MS2 or MS2A) on file with the
Registrar/Region. All competitors, except participants in the Junior Driver
program, must also have a valid driver's license.
For competitors, the Minor Waiver form must be signed by both parents/legal
guardians. For non-competitors, the form may be signed by only
one parent/legal guardian on a per-event basis. If signed by both parents/legal
guardians, the form is valid at all Solo events held in that Region
for the remainder of that calendar year unless otherwise notified.
All parent/legal guardian signatures must be witnessed by an adult SCCA
member. The Region may, at its discretion, require that any form
completed off-site be signed and witnessed in the presence of an adult SCCA
member or a Notary.
Copies of the original Minor Waiver form may be used at individual events or a
Minor Photo ID card may be issued by the Region. Minors may
not attend non-spectator events without a properly completed
waiver
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Re: Passengers allowed??
wow.... it sounds like there are a lot of hoops for someone that just wants to show up, have a good time, and take his kid for a ride to see what daddy does.
I understand there are insurance reasons, and that’s fine. but as far as the scoring goes, if he does not care about times, then just let people have a passenger and DNF that run and the runs after. (like Steve’s scenario)
Now to be clear, there is NO problem with a passenger on an X run or a fun run right? The runs in question are normal and time only runs?..... correct?
I understand there are insurance reasons, and that’s fine. but as far as the scoring goes, if he does not care about times, then just let people have a passenger and DNF that run and the runs after. (like Steve’s scenario)
Now to be clear, there is NO problem with a passenger on an X run or a fun run right? The runs in question are normal and time only runs?..... correct?
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Re: Passengers allowed??
1. X runs = time only runs
2. X runs/ time only runs you CAN have a passanger
3. Timed Competition runs - Passanger must be an instructor
4. Timed Competition runs - If Passenger is not an instructor then you must declare that run a DNF
5. Having kids always makes life more difficult.
6. Passengers must fill out an SCCA application (free) Insurace purposes
7. If passenger is a kid then minor waiver form must be filled out and signed properly
2. X runs/ time only runs you CAN have a passanger
3. Timed Competition runs - Passanger must be an instructor
4. Timed Competition runs - If Passenger is not an instructor then you must declare that run a DNF
5. Having kids always makes life more difficult.
6. Passengers must fill out an SCCA application (free) Insurace purposes
7. If passenger is a kid then minor waiver form must be filled out and signed properly
~Christine Grice
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Re: Passengers allowed??
ASFAIK, if he buys X runs, he's allowed a passenger. If that passenger is a minor, then both parents' signatures are required and must be witnessed.
One other thing that should be pointed out: Under NO circumstances can someone who is not at least 18 years old sign the normal waiver. [Age of majority in California is 18.]
One other thing that should be pointed out: Under NO circumstances can someone who is not at least 18 years old sign the normal waiver. [Age of majority in California is 18.]
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Re: Passengers allowed??
Aaron Goldsmith wrote:
Steve quit responding to messages from august, haha.
Uhm...
Did you notice this one?
......by Casey Brier on 21 Oct 2008 13:12
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Re: Passengers allowed??
Right, but herein lies the confusion. And we have people working the gate at times who don't know or fully understand the rules about minor waivers. Some have even allowed minors to sign the adult waiver, which is pointless. Minors CANNOT sign contracts, which is what the waiver amounts to.Christine Berry wrote: 7. If passenger is a kid then minor waiver form must be filled out and signed properly
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Re: Passengers allowed??
Also hopping on this thread.... I heard someone say that passengers needed to be SCCA members. This was never true as far as I can recall. Was this changed?
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Re: Passengers allowed??
Christine Berry wrote:1. X runs = time only runs
2. X runs/ time only runs you CAN have a passanger
3. Timed Competition runs - Passanger must be an instructor
4. Timed Competition runs - If Passenger is not an instructor then you must declare that run a DNF
5. Having kids always makes life more difficult.
6. Passengers must fill out an SCCA application (free) Insurace purposes
7. If passenger is a kid then minor waiver form must be filled out and signed properly
thank you, I like answers to the point.
so it look slike he will be fine..... as long as:
he continues to do time only runs
his son is 12 or older
BOTH parents sign the waiver at the front gate
the son applies for an SCCA membership for the weekend. (the free thing)
..... right?
your right kids are a pain, I am a soon to be dad! (by the way) and I am finding this out.
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Re: Passengers allowed??
As far as my understanding of the system goes, yes that should take care of it
PS - Congrats to the future dad!
PS - Congrats to the future dad!
~Christine Grice
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Re: Passengers allowed??
Randy Chase wrote:Also hopping on this thread.... I heard someone say that passengers needed to be SCCA members. This was never true as far as I can recall. Was this changed?
There you have it, straight from the horse's mouth....No offense to Nancy, I'm not trying to call her a horse.Nancy Downing wrote:Passengers, who must meet the requirements of Section 1.3.2.C of the
2008 National Solo Rules, must be members. They can be either be Regular
members(First Gear, Military, Spouse, Family, etc.) or be Weekend
Members.
However, while non-member passengers must fill out a Weekend Membership
form, the Region will NOT be billed or charged the usual $5 for these
folks. To avoid any confusion in the processing on either end (Region or
National Office), please write "Passenger" on the Weekend Membership
form near the number in the upper right corner.
Hope this helps.
Nancy Downing
Solo Events Manager
1-800-770-2055
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Re: Passengers allowed??
I never know what the current truth is... You'd think there would be some clear FAQ or event directions coming direct from SCCA for those critical things like waivers.
I didn't realize til today that the whole notary or SCCA member witnessing off site was at the region's discretion.
We were told at Registration that SCCA wanted everybody to be SCCA members even passengers and they told us take the weekend form and write PASSENGER across the top. Its free.
Depending on day of the week and who you talk to in Topeka that could change!
Don't get me started on how confusing and inappropriate for solo the Incident Report forms are. At nationals, it took the Event SSS, an SSC member, and Kathy Barnes to figure out how to fill out my report. It was such a hot potato, I filled it out and submitted it as the SSS on behalf of myself... Nobody else wanted near it. Its only my 3rd incident of the year... When the sanction and insurance goes up next year, you'll know who to thank.
Just to add to the Chaos.... There is in fact a minor waiver on the SCCA site that has a space for a minor driver to sign. I think its for club racing, not sure. I would imagine the idea there is to get a 16 or 17 year old driver to acknowledge what the deal is regardless of its being legally binding. I'm good with that.
I didn't realize til today that the whole notary or SCCA member witnessing off site was at the region's discretion.
We were told at Registration that SCCA wanted everybody to be SCCA members even passengers and they told us take the weekend form and write PASSENGER across the top. Its free.
Depending on day of the week and who you talk to in Topeka that could change!
Don't get me started on how confusing and inappropriate for solo the Incident Report forms are. At nationals, it took the Event SSS, an SSC member, and Kathy Barnes to figure out how to fill out my report. It was such a hot potato, I filled it out and submitted it as the SSS on behalf of myself... Nobody else wanted near it. Its only my 3rd incident of the year... When the sanction and insurance goes up next year, you'll know who to thank.
Just to add to the Chaos.... There is in fact a minor waiver on the SCCA site that has a space for a minor driver to sign. I think its for club racing, not sure. I would imagine the idea there is to get a 16 or 17 year old driver to acknowledge what the deal is regardless of its being legally binding. I'm good with that.
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Re: Passengers allowed??
Does that include the one you had to fill out on yourself?Steve Ekstrand wrote:...Its only my 3rd incident of the year...
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Re: Passengers allowed??
Two I've filled out on myself.
One that Stacey had to fill out on me.
The total bill on the last one might reach $150K. But I have 100% primary medical with large caps, so I don't see any reason SCCA would have to pay anything as their medical coverage is a secondary policy. When I talked with Kathy Barnes at Nats about this stuff, she said the real risk we face as a sport is the uninsured person at our events. If I understood her right, if I had been uninsured, SCCA would be picking up all of my medical bills which includes the prospect of multiple shoulder surgeries (more expensive that the knee, but not too bad--but 20-25% takes a second try), the possibility of neck surgery (that's the major bucks), and maybe knee surgery (relatively cheap).
So, I guess, again if I'm understanding this right, SCCA would benefit from a socialized medicine scheme under Kalifah Obama.
One that Stacey had to fill out on me.
The total bill on the last one might reach $150K. But I have 100% primary medical with large caps, so I don't see any reason SCCA would have to pay anything as their medical coverage is a secondary policy. When I talked with Kathy Barnes at Nats about this stuff, she said the real risk we face as a sport is the uninsured person at our events. If I understood her right, if I had been uninsured, SCCA would be picking up all of my medical bills which includes the prospect of multiple shoulder surgeries (more expensive that the knee, but not too bad--but 20-25% takes a second try), the possibility of neck surgery (that's the major bucks), and maybe knee surgery (relatively cheap).
So, I guess, again if I'm understanding this right, SCCA would benefit from a socialized medicine scheme under Kalifah Obama.
Dr. Conemangler
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.... what did I miss. what hapened?
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Re: Passengers allowed??
I saw this quoted above... does that mean that I only need one signature for my 5 year old son and 3 year old daughter to come watch (i.e. my wife signs the minor waiver form with me as the SCCA member vitnes), or...?... For non-competitors, the form may be signed by only
one parent/legal guardian on a per-event basis. ...
-kg
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Re: Passengers allowed??
It's one signature for spectating children not entering a hot area, which means grid or course. It's two for those who enter those areas and/or are going to compete or ride with a car on course.Kristoffer Gjevre wrote:I saw this quoted above... does that mean that I only need one signature for my 5 year old son and 3 year old daughter to come watch (i.e. my wife signs the minor waiver form with me as the SCCA member vitnes), or...?... For non-competitors, the form may be signed by only
one parent/legal guardian on a per-event basis. ...
-kg
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Re: Passengers allowed??
I seam to remember children are not allow in Grid or on course when hot.... unless competing, then the would have two sig anyway. Has that now changed?Bob Beamesderfer wrote:It's one signature for spectating children not entering a hot area, which means grid or course. It's two for those who enter those areas and/or are going to compete or ride with a car on course.
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Re: Passengers allowed??
Yeah, that's right. Minors aren't allowed in hot areas without both sigs, competing or not.Craig Naylor wrote:I seam to remember children are not allow in Grid or on course when hot.... unless competing, then the would have two sig anyway. Has that now changed?Bob Beamesderfer wrote:It's one signature for spectating children not entering a hot area, which means grid or course. It's two for those who enter those areas and/or are going to compete or ride with a car on course.
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Re: Passengers allowed??
Or.. You sign as the parent and the gate person sign as the SCCA witness.
Jay W
Jay W
Kristoffer Gjevre wrote:I saw this quoted above... does that mean that I only need one signature for my 5 year old son and 3 year old daughter to come watch (i.e. my wife signs the minor waiver form with me as the SCCA member vitnes), or...?
-kg
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Re: Passengers allowed??
Ah, yes, that is an option too then for me or my wife if only one of us go and bring kids.Jayson Woodruff wrote:Or.. You sign as the parent and the gate person sign as the SCCA witness.Kristoffer Gjevre wrote:I saw this quoted above... does that mean that I only need one signature for my 5 year old son and 3 year old daughter to come watch (i.e. my wife signs the minor waiver form with me as the SCCA member vitnes), or...?
-kg
Jay W
Good to know that we only need one parents signature for spectating kids.
Anyway, looks like she will bring the kids a little after I get there.
Thanks,
Kristoffer