How to avoid getting your racecar impounded

[Andrew Bingham]

No impound, no $1000 Cat ticket, no NOTHING. I have to restore the car to stock soon anyway, so the BAR is no big deal. Had I opened my hood, I would have set in motion a chain of events that would almost certainly led to the impoundment of my vehicle - the CARB stickers are mostly gone from my modified intake and supercharger and headers, and the cat is just 49 state legal. This then gives them probable cause to keep searching. None of my visible modifications were illegal, so they could not impound the vehicle.

I've had quite a few modification tickets in my day and Impound due to illegal modifications was never a subject that had come up. Strange... I think the cop would have given you a REF ticket regardless if you popped your hood or not and in this case is what had happened. The threat of impound is just a tactic to make one comply with the officers demands, and the only time I've seen when vehicles are impounded was when the person is suspected of a Misdemeanor or a Felony traffic violation, which I had to go through once. It's a very very expensive and stressful ordeal.

You should talk to Jamie about what's been going on down near SD.... Lots of cars getting impounded down there.

[Jeff Shyu]

i have no empirical evidence to support this, but if my mazda forum is any indication of the general condition of the state, they're cracking down *everywhere* in california.

[Christos Adam]

Interesting. So why did you close up the windows, etc.?

I have the same questions and I have seen the youtube video where some layers suggest this kind of behavior - mainly for people carrying drugs or other illegal stuff in their car.
If you don't have anything like that to be afraid of, is there any other reasons of not letting the police officer search the interior of your car?
Were you afraid that he will pop your hood while searching? Can they do that?

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Interesting. So why did you close up the windows, etc.?

I have the same questions and I have seen the youtube video where some layers suggest this kind of behavior - mainly for people carrying drugs or other illegal stuff in their car.
If you don't have anything like that to be afraid of, is there any other reasons of not letting the police officer search the interior of your car?
Were you afraid that he will pop your hood while searching? Can they do that?

The problem is once you consent, it's a LOT harder to draw the line.

Most cops are given a crash course that's designed to help them spot potentially illegal stuff; SDPD had a laughable video a few years ago that used to be on YouTube. In it, they pointed at an MSD coil pack; too bad everything MSD makes is CARB legal.

Even if all your mods are legal and you have CARB E.O. number decals/paperwork, chances are the cop will send you to the referee unless he/she isn't a huge jerk. The cops aren't BAR licensed emissions systems inspectors like the refs.

[Chuck Fowler]

Even if all your mods are legal and you have CARB E.O. number decals/paperwork, chances are the cop will send you to the referee unless he/she isn't a huge jerk. The cops aren't BAR licensed emissions systems inspectors like the refs.

and why not, no penalty for them if they're wrong, poorly trained or just a hard ass :unimpressed:

[Steve Ekstrand]

They tried to bust me for an MSD coil pack. Then they tried to bust me for the EO sticker being on the radiator support not the part... I pointed out the label was bigger than any flat surface on the coil.... He didn't care, said he didn't know what the label was for. I pointed out the MSD part number on the label and on the coil....

Grunting noises....

Label has to be on the part.

Sorry, I get tired of educating traffic cops on the law. Suffice it to say you are wrong. 40 minutes later and three more cops, I got a Charlie, its fine, see look there's a part number, its legit.

Oh, gee a part number, why didn't I think to point that out to the cop.... Oh wait, nevermind. 40 minutes wasted. Last time I pop my hood because I have nothing to hide.

Only conclusion I can draw is that cops spend so much time mired down in the filth and scum of the world that they begin to take on equally dark traits. I guess I can find some forgiveness, but sometimes its tough.

[KJ Christopher]

They tried to bust me for an MSD coil pack. Then they tried to bust me for the EO sticker being on the radiator support not the part... I pointed out the label was bigger than any flat surface on the coil.... He didn't care, said he didn't know what the label was for. I pointed out the MSD part number on the label and on the coil....

Grunting noises....

Label has to be on the part.

Sorry, I get tired of educating traffic cops on the law. Suffice it to say you are wrong. 40 minutes later and three more cops, I got a Charlie, its fine, see look there's a part number, its legit.

Oh, gee a part number, why didn't I think to point that out to the cop.... Oh wait, nevermind. 40 minutes wasted. Last time I pop my hood because I have nothing to hide.

Only conclusion I can draw is that cops spend so much time mired down in the filth and scum of the world that they begin to take on equally dark traits. I guess I can find some forgiveness, but sometimes its tough.

One of the reasons I decided not to continue a career in the FBI after college (I clerked there during college) was the emotional drain and cynicism that came out of it. Some people have to do it. And 99% of the people good. But I didn't like how I felt. Well, that was a small part of it. Most of it was dealing with the bureaucracy. I'm too much of a renegade to deal with statutes and forms. So I became a tax accountant.

[Kevin Price]

Only conclusion I can draw is that cops spend so much time mired down in the filth and scum of the world that they begin to take on equally dark traits. I guess I can find some forgiveness, but sometimes its tough.

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that Steve might have gotten sideways with a cop! What, with your pleasant, accommodating manner and all. . . ;)

Once you've pissed the cop off by the side of the road, you've already lost, even if you're right. By contrast, if you're a nice guy, cooperative and respectful, you might be the only guy that day that the cop has contact with who's a "good guy." By the side of the road, before the Sarge shows up, the cop has a tremendous amount of discretion to let you go with a warning. (I've talked myself out of more tickets than I've gotten, that's for sure.) Once you push the cop into a corner by arguing, you're going to get a ticket or worse. I'm just sayin', a teaspoon of honey vs. a barrel of vinegar, Sun-tsu, and all that jazz.

Now, if there's something to hide in the car (like Bill's story), then its a whole 'nuther story.

[Steve Ekstrand]

I was very nice and reasonable despite the rude accusations and questions of the officer... "Where do you street race. Where you set up your races. Do you know this car is illegal. You can't drive street racers on the street." Last still makes me tilt the head and make that Scooby Doo confused sound...

Neanderthal boy was pushing pretty hard.

It was when he said, "I don't know, I'm going to have to write you up and let the judge decide", that I lost it, wrote down his name and badge number and whipped out the cell phone to start dialing the Pasadena chief of Police. That's when he offered to have his sarge who was just down the street look. His Sarge started immediately all hardcore, but settled when I was reasonable back to his blustering and stated clearly the reason I was upset was that the officer clearly admitted he didn't understand the law, didn't know if I was breaking any law, but wanted to right me a ticket, just to be absolutely sure. I said, listen I'm a law professor, do you understand how completely outrageous I consider that comment and threatened action?

Sarge, actually said in response, I understand, you're right. Would you mind just a couple of minutes and I can have my best smog guy here to take a look. I said no problem. I had researched and documented my mods, had the stickers, etc.

Smog expert cop shows up, and he was a kinda of an ass for the first 30 seconds, its amazing how they all seem to show up chest pumped. But as soon as he looked under the hood he seemed relaxed. He pointed out the part number on the coil and the label to the other two and even said something about coils and wires being legal mods. I had a blue goodyear hose on the PCV that had freaked out the traffic cop and the "expert" said its a replacement hose, its routed properly all legal. He recognized that the compressor bypass was in fact factory and not a blow-off valve. He stood up straight and said, its all legal, and a real nice ride.

My attitude was very calculated and matched to the changing situation. No ticket, no referee. But ultimately, it made me less inclined to "cooperate, because I have nothing to hide".

I was stopped a month earlier by a CHP officer who thought I had a blow-off valve. I totally understand why. Narrow street, tree covered, and he was on my intake side. I had sprinted across a busy four lane street then lifted right in front of the cop. Huge loud whooooooooosh. I'd pull me over too. That cop was amazingly cool. He had a supercharged mustang and was dying to take it the track. I referred him to some of the track days at Willow and the SVTOA guys. We talked cars for 30 minutes. It was a brofest.

[Kurt Rahn]

I'm too much of a renegade to deal with statutes and forms. So I became a tax accountant.

You're one funny mofo.

[Christos Adam]

I read all these and I understand how big time screwed I'll be if I ever get pulled over... }:)

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Corona PD never pay any attention to my Miata. Stock exhaust probably helps, but even with the sticker hootenanny they don't seem to care.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Corona PD never pay any attention to my Miata. Stock exhaust probably helps, but even with the sticker hootenanny they don't seem to care.

But cross a solid white line and they will lock you up.....

BTWBob-Cronkite died....

[Kurt Rahn]

I was very nice and reasonable despite the rude accusations and questions of the officer... "Where do you street race. Where you set up your races. Do you know this car is illegal. You can't drive street racers on the street."

What gets me is how many 40-something, chubby, graying white men like me street race. Haven't these idiots seen The Fast and the Furious?

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Corona PD never pay any attention to my Miata. Stock exhaust probably helps, but even with the sticker hootenanny they don't seem to care.

But cross a solid white line and they will lock you up.....

BTWBob-Cronkite died....

I saw that. The J-school at Arizona State is named for him, endowed chair, annual award, etc.

[Jamie Lessie]

i have no empirical evidence to support this, but if my mazda forum is any indication of the general condition of the state, they're cracking down *everywhere* in california.

You should talk to Jamie about what's been going on down near SD.... Lots of cars getting impounded down there.

Southern California got a grant to "crackdown on street racing" after that person was killed in Ramona. Funny they car involved was an unmodified Jaguar. They won't tell you that though. Apparently you need an illegal intake and a vtec controller to street race.

I have friends in high places in Chula Vista where this started (In Chula Vista on one Friday they wrote something like 110 fix-it tickets and impounded 18 cars) I was going to propose some things to the city that would actually help. Then I heard form a cop that they could give a rats a** about street racers and it is to generate revenue. They have made a lot of money on this. California wants money right now and you all are their target of opportunity. Needless to say I scrapped all my plans and after some thought I believe a class action would be the best way to fix this.

[Steve Collins]

Needless to say I scrapped all my plans and after some thought I believe a class action would be the best way to fix this.

Perhaps... OR...

We could simply release thousands of giant spiders trained to seek revenge! Muahahahahah :mrt: HAHAHA!

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Needless to say I scrapped all my plans and after some thought I believe a class action would be the best way to fix this.

Perhaps... OR...

We could simply release thousands of giant spiders trained to seek revenge! Muahahahahah :mrt: HAHAHA!

Sneak the spiders into San Onofre to expose them to radiation, then unleash them on, uh, ... Oh. Maybe not a good idea.

[Steve Collins]

Perhaps... OR...

We could simply release thousands of giant spiders trained to seek revenge! Muahahahahah :mrt: HAHAHA!

Sneak the spiders into San Onofre to expose them to radiation, then unleash them on, uh, ... Oh. Maybe not a good idea.[/quote]


Yes Bob!! They'll destroy everything in their path, crawling from thread to thread, hijacking topics and leaving nothing but dried husks!!

[Webster Jessup]

The 4th amendment doesn't use the word warrant. If you are detained, as in a traffic stop LEO has the right to "secure the scene" and search you for weapons as well as areas within your immediate control and access. This has been extended to include closed areas where another person could be hiding to ambush LEO.

Steve,

This is 100% false. US vs Terry did not say this. Officers need to have PC (probable cause) to search closed areas. They can only use what is in plain sight as well as your testimony to justify PC. Most people incriminate themselves or invite the search. Just keep your mouth shut and decline any searches and it will go much better.

If they continue to search without PC, then you can have the evidence suppressed in court. It may not be an easy fight, but none-the-less you will win.


Also to the OP. The referee ticket is bogus. Go to court and fight it. They didn't have any PC to give you that ticket. Otherwise, they could stop any vehicle and give them that ticket. That's not how it works.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Don't know.... Web.... Terry and the subsequent case, Michigan v Long are pretty basic, pretty universal, and pretty unchallenged.

Terry does NOT require Probable Cause, but reasonable suspicion. That's a lesser evidentiary standard and to SCOTUS its much like the Commerce Clause... Everything meets it. A cop is suspicious of everybody, and I doubt it really passes a reasonable person standard, but judges back officer suspicions. You can get all principled, its just in my experience, a cops reasonable suspicion cannot ever be overturned in court. Ever.

The successful challenge is not the stop itself, but that the search exceeded what is necessary for protection of the officer. The very reason they ask you to pop the hood is check for evidence of tampering, not hidden ninja's. That right there is your basis for telling them to piss off. Reasonable suspicion gives the officer the unquestioned right to search for weapons. NOT EVIDENCE!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_v._Long" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bob Beamesderfer]

A cop is suspicious of everybody, and I doubt it really passes a reasonable person standard, but judges back officer suspicions. You can get all principled, its just in my experience, a cops reasonable suspicion cannot ever be overturned in court. Ever.

Web, keep in mind we're in Traffic Court with magistrates who are probably making not much more than public defenders. The marching orders from their Superior Court keepers is to move it along. If his/her honor hears nothing particularly unusual or abusive about the stop, you're toast. If you answer yes to any question from the bench that fits with guilty under the law, you're toast. Those on the bench are probably a wee bit jaded from hearing the same stuff ad nauseum.

Cops are really touchy when people talk about their rights. If you don't believe that, just ask amateur—or pro— photographers how they're treated when taking pictures while on public property of police actions or just a building like, say, Library Tower.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Seems like about 1993 or so, there was an article in the Los Angeles Daily Journal written by an anonymous traffic court commissioner.
Its was pretty interesting and pretty incriminating of the system as abusive and illegal, and based entirely around expediency.

The commissioner said that if you do not ask for your constitutional rights including guilt to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, then you will NOT get those rights.

I'm not sure how to respectfully ask a judge to please give me my rights. Its so ridiculous as to just smack of a contempt charge. But this anonymous guy insisted, that is why lawyers making rare appearances in traffic court always won. They demanded their full constitutional rights and protections and the system fails under that weight.

I know I saved the article..... But WHERE????? :unimpressed:

[Webster Jessup]

That suspicion does not extend to under the hood nor anywhere else closed.

If they have reason to believe that you are armed, then having you step out of the vehicle and frisking you is reasonable. Looking under your hood is not. Plain and simple.

In the Terry case, they specifically said that it only applies to offer safety, not evidence collection. So any evidence found is not admissible unless they happen to find a bag of blow on you.

I never said it would be easy in court, but you can win if you put forth the effort.



BTW, I hate how the commerce clause has been interpreted. It is complete BS and a disgrace to this country.

[Webster Jessup]

That article is spot on.

But, the reason why it appears so, is because people don't put forth their rights. You can beat most traffic stuff if you are willing to fight. Most people just plead no-contest or other BS because that's how the court has been set up to make it seem easier on the defendant and still get the court money. It's not about rights, but making money.