PAX Definition

[Rick Brown]

For those not on Facebook:



(Thanks to where2race.com)

[Craig Naylor]

"designed by slower drivers" - so they're saying Rick Ruth is slow, or C.P. is slow?

[Marshall Grice]

I think KJ proved this definition to be correct at the last event.

[Joey Schilling]

Hey Marshall did you see what was written in sports car about you and Tom.....ya buddy, it's time. I have faith in you bro!

[Julian Manolov]

...

Haha. Quite true
LeMans, WRC, etc. no serious race series including multiple classes use silly multipliers... Overall winner is always the fastest raw time

[Craig Naylor]

...

Haha. Quite true
LeMans, WRC, etc. no serious race series including multiple classes use silly multipliers... Overall winner is always the fastest raw time

True... but no other race series has as wide a field of vehicles, prep levels etc as we do. We have purpose built race cars (AM), to other series race cars (F2000/F1600, KM etc) to your most basic grocery getter (Yaris)

There is no "serious race series" as you called it where a grid would include: a F1, Top Fuel Dragster, NASCAR, and a 450 MX bike waiting for a green flag, and expecting some form of parity between them.

Now if we were a marque club, say like Porsche, Corvette, etc, I could see more validity to the the fastest raw time. As a side note... though I don't think a Trophy exists in CalClub anymore (some regions still due), Historically a TTOD - Top Time of Day award used to exist. We do still publish TTOD at the very bottom of the results page. Actually there are TTOD for a bunch of categories listed there.

[Julian Manolov]

There is no "serious race series" as you called it where a grid would include: a F1, Top Fuel Dragster, NASCAR, and a 450 MX bike waiting for a green flag, and expecting some form of parity between them.

Since I mentioned LeMans and WRC ... their grids are quite mixed if you look at the speeds between the different classes. Parity is not expected.

Look at the 24h of LeMans - the P1 class is way way faster than the GT class. There are separate class results for GT and P1 but there are the overall results which pretty much everyone quotes. Overall results are by raw speed (number of laps in the particular case) and no multipliers to try make up for the difference between the classes. At the end of the race first thing that happens is the podium where the big trophy is presented to the team who got the overall win. The only way a GT team to step on that podium and get it is if their GT car beats P1 on raw time.

Same thing about the world rally championship. The top class (WRC) usually wins and the only way some lower classes to sneak in the overall results and grab the overall event trophies is to beat the WRC cars on raw time. When they show results on WRC video feeds - they show the overall results, including all classes but sorted by raw time. Sometimes you can see Sxxxx class cars sneaking in between the WRC in the top 10.

And in both LeMans and WRC it is relatively easy to derive PAX index for their classes if parity was expected. It is not though. Since event winner = fastest raw time, overall results = sorted by raw time and that's all that matters ;) The class wins are excuses for those who didn't get the overall but these most of the time don't even show on TV

[Craig Naylor]

Look at the 24h of LeMans - the P1 class is way way faster than the GT class. There are separate class results for GT and P1 but there are the overall results which pretty much everyone quotes. Overall results are by raw speed (number of laps in the particular case)

Actually 24hr Lemans and other 24hr type races are actually bad examples to show your point. Fastest Raw speed does NOT sit atop the podium. Most completed laps does, often it's not by the fastest car or even class on the track, but the one who spent the least time making repairs and other off track time.


For most other motorsports, To sit atop the winners podium, you need to get to the end of the race, in AX you just need one fast lap for TTOD. Hell I bet a lot of NASCAR teams would run very different races if they just needed that ONE FASTEST LAP to win.

KJ's & Kessels cars often hold TTOD, but they would loose in your Lemans comparison, as they often don't complete all the laps afforded them (3,4, what ever).

[Julian Manolov]

Actually 24hr Lemans and other 24hr type races are actually bad examples to show your point. Fastest Raw speed does NOT sit atop the podium. Most completed laps does, often it's not by the fastest car or even class on the track, but the one who spent the least time making repairs and other off track time.

Some series do multiple laps, some do stages ... some refuel, some allow repairs. But it is the car with the highest average speed from the start flag to the finish flag travelling a certain track distance (distance sometimes calculated from imposed time limit). Sure, distance can slightly vary when you sometimes travel through pits but it is not that much variance in the big picture.
Same in 24h of Lemans - the highest average speed (== shortest time) over the preset race distance (distance is dynamically calculated from the 24h limit rounded to a lap of the leading car) is the one who wins. Lately multiple cars do the same number of laps since it has been a 24h sprint race for years.

For most other motorsports, To sit atop the winners podium, you need to get to the end of the race, in AX you just need one fast lap for TTOD. Hell I bet a lot of NASCAR teams would run very different races if they just needed that ONE FASTEST LAP to win.
KJ's & Kessels cars often hold TTOD, but they would loose in your Lemans comparison, as they often don't complete all the laps afforded them (3,4, what ever).

So our end of the race is one completed single lap. If they break down on the first lap and don't post a time you can take the overall win
In Solo - fastest single lap wins. If rules change to be sum of multiple continuous laps - KJ, Kiesel, etc. will just tweak their cars to survive that.
You can try swing this any way and start picking on the tech details but regardless ... no multipliers to try make slower classes look faster (or call them more durable, quicker, etc. depending on the series & spin it in whatever way you want) ...
KJ = overall winner, that's it