Cal Club Autocross Forums

I thought this thread was about videos and photos? Anyways here is a video of Shelby's second race she has ever raced in . She had no problem figuring out the coarse..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTZUfqBQImQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David showing me how to go faster in my corvette 77.494

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyMey2hqPaY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Run from camera on the inside of windshield

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHeLJ0u765A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

same run go pro mounted to center top of window

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THkFmmyT7SQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

one of my practice runs Saturday

Bill

Me: http://youtu.be/ZX8xuBysdIE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mark: http://youtu.be/YRI3Y9eEkMs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tom Denham wrote:I have a idea, put your knowledge to work and design a course.

Not my first rodeo... In case you were not aware, I've heavily involved in course layout professionally.

But for the SCCA, you haven't been around long enough. In my 15 yrs Ax'ing, I've probably done a dozen courses, and chaired a few more than that too... sourced three sites (Soak City, NTC, and the return to Norton two years ago)... and spent about 8 years as a Safety Steward. Current job keeps me from being able to commit in advance to attend, let alone lead an event.

Craig Naylor wrote:

Tom Denham wrote:I have a idea, put your knowledge to work and design a course.

You haven't been around long enough. In my 15 yrs Ax'ing, I've probably done a dozen courses, and chaired a few more than that too, and sourced three sites. (Soak City, NTC, and the return to Norton two years ago)... and spent about 8 years as a Safety Steward. Current job keeps me from being able to commit in advance to attend, let alone lead an event. Some day that may change again.

I recall driving some of Craig's courses. I believe Craig understands just how difficult and how much work it is to be a course designer. It takes way more work than most people think. Thanks should go out to all course designers that step up. Course setup requires more than just the layout. It helps so much if the Event Chair, SS and the Chief of workers help with the details and they need to know how to layout course as well. If anyone sees a safety issue when walking in the morning please contact the EC, CD, CW, and the SS. The EC, CD, CW, and the SS should be able to work together to fix any issue.

Craig Naylor wrote:

Tom Denham wrote:I have a idea, put your knowledge to work and design a course.

Not my first rodeo... In case you were not aware, I've heavily involved in course layout professionally.

But for the SCCA, you haven't been around long enough. In my 15 yrs Ax'ing, I've probably done a dozen courses, and chaired a few more than that too... sourced three sites (Soak City, NTC, and the return to Norton two years ago)... and spent about 8 years as a Safety Steward. Current job keeps me from being able to commit in advance to attend, let alone lead an event.

That is a great resume. 15 years that is a long time. I can tell you are really proud.
I am not going to debate your knowledge, You know me. If you say you can do it better DO IT or help do it.
But complain , the way you did, then the above, Just makes you look like a know it all .
If you can't commit the time to the sport, that is fine ,Maybe you could be a little more gracious,in your complaining.
.

Most newer course designers should review Johnson's Course Designing guide lines ... besides keeping the SCCA guidelines in mind, ie. Solo is NOT suppose to be a memory test ... while keeping the newbies in mind ... who are probably the biggest potential "danger" in our sport.

http://www.houscca.com/solo/courses/Cou ... _4-1-2.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Again ... loved Sunday's course ... Sat's was a bit confusing

http://youtu.be/QC5gWrgmfAI 76.1xx so close to 75's

Craig Naylor wrote:Lesson... I hate drivers meetings.

We apparently need them.

There was a drivers' meeting. All the stuff on the safety checklist were gone over - including what to do when you get red flagged & when to red flag a car. I don't remember if he was there or not, but I pulled aside all the newbies for extra course/safety information.

The driver was a novice, but it was not his first time autoxing with us. At least 1 or 2 GRA event officials talked with the driver afterward. I also talked with him. He didn't walk the course, didn't take advantage of instructors, & it was obvious he freaked out when he got lost, made all the wrong decisions, and was still shook up after he got back. Much of the talk was just to make sure he was okay & knows what he did wrong as well as what to do in the future if something like that happened.

Anthony Porta wrote:http://youtu.be/QC5gWrgmfAI 76.1xx so close to 75's

Oh Porta, at least you didn't cone away both of your winning times :barf: haha. Next time Gadget! Next time! Btw, I will post my vid soon so we can compare notes. Do you know how to sync up the vids side by side?

Quoc-Viet Dang wrote:

Craig Naylor wrote:Lesson... I hate drivers meetings.
We apparently need them.

There was a drivers' meeting. All the stuff on the safety checklist were gone over

My point was... I was against them as I don't believe those who need it show, and or pay attention. I concede, even with those feelings, we apparently need them in some form or another.

I still feel, they should be mandatory for novices. Check off sheet like... like we do the workers check in. And along that point, afternoon people are not always their in the morning, a separate one needs to be held for afternoon novices too in the same detail.

Craig Naylor wrote:

Quoc-Viet Dang wrote:

Craig Naylor wrote:Lesson... I hate drivers meetings.
We apparently need them.

There was a drivers' meeting. All the stuff on the safety checklist were gone over

My point was... I was against them as I don't believe those who need it show, and or pay attention. I concede, even with those feelings, we apparently need them in some form or another.

I still feel, they should be mandatory for novices. Check off sheet like... like we do the workers check in. And along that point, afternoon people are not always their in the morning, a separate one needs to be held for afternoon novices too in the same detail.

Would it be possible to group novices into any group other than the first run group? That way they can get decent access to instructors. Also, if possible make it mandatory to have an instructor do at least a ride along for their first event/run?

It would be nice to have more instruction more readily available for novices. While some 1st event novices may be shy about asking for instruction and moving them to a different than class run group may create a bit more work for registration, I think the potential time saved by reducing red flags/reruns and increasing course worker safety should be weighed.

Sean Fenstermacher wrote: Would it be possible to group novices into any group other than the first run group? That way they can get decent access to instructors. Also, if possible make it mandatory to have an instructor do at least a ride along for their first event/run?

It would be nice to have more instruction more readily available for novices. While some 1st event novices may be shy about asking for instruction and moving them to a different than class run group may create a bit more work for registration, I think the potential time saved by reducing red flags/reruns and increasing course worker safety should be weighed.

I think you might be over reacting to a rather rare, isolated incident.

One problem with putting all novices in one group is you then end up with a group with mostly inexperienced workers, which would actually be less safe. Also, Novice class size can vary considerably, making trying to balance run/work groups more difficult if a large number show up (many do not pre-register). While I know there are those who volunteer to instruct in addition to their regular work assignment, it can also be a work assignment, especially in Group 1. With current numbers at events, we don't have an abundance of workers. It might be reasonable for the grid person to make an effort at the beginning of their group to ask any obvious novices (not all actually run in Novice class and there are lots of experienced people that run 600 numbers) if they would like an instructor.

If you work as an instructor before your competition runs, you forfeit your competition point, correct?
I thought that was always the case, thus the low availability of instructors on Sundays for the first run group.

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:If you work as an instructor before your competition runs, you forfeit your competition point, correct?
I thought that was always the case, thus the low availability of instructors on Sundays for the first run group.

True, but Leonard always makes an effort to recruit at least one person who isn't worried about points. If there was really a large amount in the first group I'm sure more could be found. We have even let some people run in the two driver line to finish early then instruct. Since the number of those needing instruction can vary from zero to several, it's mostly just a matter of identifying who needs help.

I believe there were two folks in the last first run group that didn't get the Instructors that they requested

Mako Koiwai wrote:I believe there were two folks in the last first run group that didn't get the Instructors that they requested

I was aware of one after the course walk. The one on the course walk I informed we did not have a first group instructor. If there were two who requested for one, they weren't on the walk.

I did have two volunteers for instructors last weekend, but they volunteered for the second group onward, which, while helpful for later groups, doesn't do anything for the first group, which is where the most help is needed. Unfortunately, nobody qualified has stepped forward to do first group instruction the last few times it's been offered. It's an ongoing problem, but it's only solved by finding people on a regular basis willing to give up their competition runs to instruct. BTW, complaining there isn't a first group instructor without volunteering yourself or helping find someone to instruct isn't helpful.

I agree with Rick that putting all the novices in one group is a bad idea. Not just because you have all the novices working in a single group, but we're simply not going to have enough instructors to cover the group. Can you imagine, say, 15 novices in one group with only one to three instructors covering? It's better if it's spread out over the course of the day because the more common situation is 1-2 instructors to 3-4 novices in any given group.

I don't support having mandatory instruction for novice first runs. Not all novices want it or need it and I think one wayward novice isn't a good enough reason to change existing rules. If this were a problem with a majority of novices, I would support it, but it isn't.

Leonard Cachola wrote:...I think one wayward novice isn't a good enough reason to change existing rules.

Maybe attitudes would be different if had one of those lost novices blow through your section of workers or the group of workers next to you? I know all of us working course experience it at least once every couple of events.

If there is something we can do about it while keeping the courses challenging, you'd think it would be worth discussing and finding a solution that would require Sunday drivers/workers to give up their own competitive status.

An other club does require novices/new members to have an instructor ride along to evaluate safety. Not that I'm saying this needs to be done nor would it be the "end all" solution, but it seems to be a step in the right direction. Also, you would think that exposing new drivers to some experienced instruction their first time out would increase the chances they would return to participate regularly. If numbers are as low as Rick suggest, maybe we should reasses how novice autocross drivers are treated to encourage their return and increase course safety.

Sean Fenstermacher wrote:
Maybe attitudes would be different if had one of those lost novices blow through your section of workers or the group of workers next to you? I know all of us working course experience it at least once every couple of events.

If there is something we can do about it while keeping the courses challenging, you'd think it would be worth discussing and finding a solution that would require Sunday drivers/workers to give up their own competitive status.

An other club does require novices/new members to have an instructor ride along to evaluate safety. Not that I'm saying this needs to be done nor would it be the "end all" solution, but it seems to be a step in the right direction. Also, you would think that exposing new drivers to some experienced instruction their first time out would increase the chances they would return to participate regularly. If numbers are as low as Rick suggest, maybe we should reasses how novice autocross drivers are treated to encourage their return and increase course safety.

Novices blow through sections with or without instructors in the car. I know, I've been on a few of those runs.

Everything you've said has been talked about in meetings over the last few years. It's nothing we haven't discussed or heard about before on the board and if you attended the meetings - and every member of our region is encouraged to attend - you would know that. We have been encouraging novices to take instruction for years now, both on the course walks and in the driver's meetings. We have novice walks in the morning and during lunch on autocross Sundays and encourage novices to participate on those. We pull aside novices to give them an extra safety meeting. We have implemented a Novice class so they have a season of learning and it's a class that has been thriving for the past few years now.

Many novices used to be one event and done, now many of them will stick through at least half, if not a whole season and beyond. I run into people who have returned - maybe not the next event, but several events down the line - sometimes a year later. Many of the problems you mention could easily be alleviated by having us as a COMMUNITY - not just one novice coordinator - be welcoming to novices, either through offering a helping hand or giving instruction - every veteran AX'er should be out there volunteering to help instruct when they can. It used to be a more hostile environment before when novices were seen as an inconvenience, but ever since we implemented the novice class I have seen a major shift in attitude these past few years toward novices and I commend the powers-that-be for having had the vision to do this.

We've talked about a mentoring program in the past, but I suspect this is something that is best implemented at the individual club level rather than having it pushed from the board. That said, this always dies on the vine for various reasons.

Many novices don't return due to financial troubles, work commitments, or life changes like getting married or having kids, not just because they didn't get instruction at a single autocross. Some drop out due to cost of developing a car or being stuck with an uncompetitive car. Some don't feel they measure up competitively. I know, I talk to them all the time. To say that not getting that single instructor run is the reason they don't come back is over generalizing and not reality.

Also, if you haven't noticed the many new faces the past few years become regular participating members, then you haven't been paying attention. Many attendees who have stopped coming out can be attributed to regular faces dropping out due to the reasons I listed - did you see how many GRA members showed up this past event that haven't been out since the last GRA event? Attendance is definitely down from when I first started, but our events have had steady participation these past few years despite the recession because we've been able to replace the dropouts with new blood.

Could it be better? Of course. But only if we change as a community. We've come a long way, but judging from some of the responses on this thread, there's still a lot of work to do.

The only thing I can add is that running in the Novice group can be frustrating, since you don't always get a target to chase depending on what group your running. You can't believe how frustrating it can be running first group, with the guy who your trying to beat running 6th group and not knowing immediately if your fast time held up or not. Don't get me wrong the runs were still fun, but thrill of the chase is a bit diminished with the group split as it is.

And Leonard is correct, I've worked course watching a Novice with an instructor in the passenger seat, get lost on a section of slalom on 3 of their 4 runs, it happens its just another learning experience.

I try to talk to at least one Novice an event...probably not a good thing ... but its my attempt at least at making new folks feel welcomed, I know I had a hard time my first few events and it wasn't a particularly pleasant experience.

Bobby Beyer wrote:I try to talk to at least one Novice an event...probably not a good thing ... but its my attempt at least at making new folks feel welcomed, I know I had a hard time my first few events and it wasn't a particularly pleasant experience.

If everyone did this, just saying howdy to one newbie, think of the impact it could have.

Bobby Beyer wrote:I try to talk to at least one Novice an event...probably not a good thing ... but its my attempt at least at making new folks feel welcomed, I know I had a hard time my first few events and it wasn't a particularly pleasant experience.

As a novice (first time ever autocrossing), I can say that I appreciated the clubs hospitality very much. Everybody I interacted with was quite friendly, and very helpful. I did have to be a bit assertive during registration (mostly because I didn't what the heck I was doing at all), but every single person I engaged did try to help keep me pointed in the right direction. It's tough showing up to something like this when you know absolutely nobody, but by the end of the day, I had at least 5 or 6 acquaintances that knew my name and I knew theirs.

The novice course walk was very valuable for this newbie. The most valuable information I could have taken away from it was "look ahead...way ahead". Of course during my runs, I was so focused on each individual piece of the course that I was barely looking at the next cone. Most turns I came out of, I mentally paused a moment to figure out the next section....but hopefully that's just a beginner thing. The novice course instructor (sorry, I forgot his name), did an excellent job of making us all comfortable, and was an absolute wealth of good information and advice (that I'm sure most of us novices didn't realize was great advise until after the runs).

I worked section 1 with a great guy (Mike) that really helped me understand what was going on. He was obviously a regular and knew most of the drivers by name. Again, tons of valuable insight gained by working along side him. "This is so and so, listen to the way he's feathering the throttle there....", "watch this guy, he's carrying too much speed there and it's pushing him wide...", etc. Great stuff.

When it came time for my run group, I got in line next to another first timer that I'd been talking to. We asked for instructors, and I was fortunate enough to have Craig as my guide. His guidance was perfect for me. I made the horrible mistake of guzzling an energy drink after the work session (it was warm, I was thirsty), so I was amp'd up...nervous, and a friggen' sugar/caffeine rush to boot. Craig was calm, cool, and got me through that first run (even with my missing the first slalom cone screech to a dead stop!). Again, I really appreciated his hospitality and the time he spent helping me get acclimated and comfortable....especially since I felt major nausea after my first run (chalking that up to nerves and the lousy Rockstar I guzzled).

Anyway, for those of you that do extend that "olive branch" to the newbies, I just wanted to let you know that it's very much appreciated. I'll definitely be back....even with the announcers hilarious comment over the PA after my first run: "95.286, that puts him comfortably in 12th place!".....out of 12 in my class....it still makes me laugh when I think about it.

I have to say, being a novice myself this year, that the assistance/instruction has been great. Whether it be the novice course walk, instructions from others about how to drive the course, or the instructor runs. They have all been ALOT of help to me.

Randy Gonzalez wrote: Anyway, for those of you that do extend that "olive branch" to the newbies, I just wanted to let you know that it's very much appreciated. I'll definitely be back....even with the announcers hilarious comment over the PA after my first run: "95.286, that puts him comfortably in 12th place!".....out of 12 in my class....it still makes me laugh when I think about it.

"that puts him comfortably in 12th place!"......Had to be Max!

Thanks for the write up Randy and glad you had a good time. Our excellent Novice Coordinator is Leonard Cachola. I agree with you.....he does a great job!

And great to here you time with Craig was also fun and productive!