Nationals run days question

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Marshall Grice
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Nationals run days question

Post by Marshall Grice » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:16 am

As some of you may or may not be aware, at the national convention this year the national staff announced their intention to change the national championship run day schedule. Historically we've run either Tue/Wed or Thur/Fri and the newly proposed run days would be Tue/Thur or Wed/Fri which would insert a non-competition day in between the two competition days. I've talked to many people in our region about this in person, but I'd like to get feedback from a larger audience. Any thoughts?

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Re: Nationals run days question

Post by Jonathan Lugod » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:59 am

I prefer the flexibility of being able to leave early. I think the better play would have been to require running a tour/divisional (like in the past) as a qualifying event. Next step would be to only allow registration at nats for the class that was ran at the qualifying tour. Charge a much higher cost to sift through the "casual entries" for nats. This would prevent run day hoppers at Nats making it easier to balance out the run days.

What are they trying to solve?
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Anthony P.
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Re: Nationals run days question

Post by Anthony P. » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:00 pm

Before I comment can you share the reasons why this decision was originally made?

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Re: Nationals run days question

Post by Jonathan Lugod » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:14 pm

...whelp I guess it doesn't matter :clap: Great Communication by the SCCA. Bra-vo. :crazy:
...Having said this, we are compassionate and want to do what we feel is right for our membership. The extensive member feedback received since the Convention has made it clear that there are aspects of this change—and others—that we need to reconsider. For 2020, we will forego the run day change, continuing the discussion and searching for better options for 2021. The reality is that, as in all organizations, leadership makes decisions on behalf of the membership on a daily basis. It is the nature of large organizations. However, there are issues that have significant impact on the membership at large, and deserve more formal, broader input. This is clearly one of those issues. - Mike King
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Marshall Grice
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Re: Nationals run days question

Post by Marshall Grice » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:30 pm

Anthony P. wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:00 pm
Before I comment can you share the reasons why this decision was originally made?
I'm just asking for opinions, I'm not sure how the reasons for the change impact your opinion.

Either way, as Jon pointed out, it has been walked back so I guess it doesn't really matter anymore.

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Re: Nationals run days question

Post by Anthony P. » Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:14 pm

Well, to me, if you asked it matters. I value your post and you wanting to reach out to your local membership as a member of the seb.

Personally, I like things the way they are. I'm opposed to growing the event beyond what is currently handled. We are already the largest amateur motorsport event in the world.

When I race Thursday Friday, I like the option as I have excersized to come in Wednesday to support other racers. When I race in the Pro finale and race Th/Fr I enjoy the time Tu/We either working, relaxing, supporting other racers, working the Evo test n tunes, etc.

That being said, with Penelope this year we came in and left as efficiently as we could. I like having the options and flexability to accomplish both my racing and personal goals. I hope one day to be the parent of an FJ karter and missing fewer days of her new school year seem helpful. But of course, that only applies to a small portion of the overall competitors. My point is I like MORE options as opposed to an obligation.

For operational changes like these, I would really have liked the opportunity to read about a proposed change in a fast track and be able to send in a letter before a decision was made. Not so much to vote, but to have at least said my peace. I don't see the SCCA as a democracy, but knowing they at least solicit member feedback is appreciated.

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Re: Nationals run days question

Post by Mike Simanyi » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:11 pm

Having seen all the uproar and the retraction, in retrospect I have a few thoughts:
  • The impact on senior volunteers, like Ops Stewards, is likely the biggest negative from an operational standpoint. I think few people care about that, but given the SEB's responsibilities in managing Nationals, I know it's hard to procure quality volunteers. The easier we can make their lives, the better.
  • We are victims of our own success. I was on the SEB when we pulled the "qualifier" requirements for Nationals. At the time it was irrelevant as we were trying to increase participation. We're now to the point where I think it would be prudent to bring it back. I'd even suggest doing it in slightly grander fashion, like we use for Pro Solos. It's not *just* that you participated in a Tour, but that participation is "scored." Then we tier Entry for Nationals as we do for the Pro Finale.
  • Consider running FJ on Monday. It's a perennial problem, weaving them in with Open classes on Tu/Wed, Th/Fr. The logistics on it are a real nightmare. Putting them on Monday we can easily guarantee their safety without a monumental effort and no delays to the rest of the operation.

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Re: Nationals run days question

Post by Jonathan Lugod » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:59 am

Mike Simanyi wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:11 pm
Having seen all the uproar and the retraction, in retrospect I have a few thoughts:
  • Consider running FJ on Monday. It's a perennial problem, weaving them in with Open classes on Tu/Wed, Th/Fr. The logistics on it are a real nightmare. Putting them on Monday we can easily guarantee their safety without a monumental effort and no delays to the rest of the operation.
I'm not sure that't a good idea either. Like it or not, the Junior karters are SCCA members as well and deserve to be treated as such. They deserve the same mindset training of being able to do it (racecraft) between two days.

Supplemental classes are not in contention for a jacket and make more sense for a single day event if we had to go that route.
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Anthony P.
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Re: Nationals run days question

Post by Anthony P. » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:27 pm

Jonathan Lugod wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:59 am
Mike Simanyi wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:11 pm
Having seen all the uproar and the retraction, in retrospect I have a few thoughts:
  • Consider running FJ on Monday. It's a perennial problem, weaving them in with Open classes on Tu/Wed, Th/Fr. The logistics on it are a real nightmare. Putting them on Monday we can easily guarantee their safety without a monumental effort and no delays to the rest of the operation.
I'm not sure that't a good idea either. Like it or not, the Junior karters are SCCA members as well and deserve to be treated as such. They deserve the same mindset training of being able to do it (racecraft) between two days.

Supplemental classes are not in contention for a jacket and make more sense for a single day event if we had to go that route.
Yup. Also, if no member wants to walk, run, rest, and repeat twice in one day, what makes anyone think it would be safe/fair/reasonable for a JB or JA karter?

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Re: Nationals run days question

Post by Reed Gibson » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:05 pm

Jonathan Lugod wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:59 am
Supplemental classes are not in contention for a jacket and make more sense for a single day event if we had to go that route.
Best idea I've heard yet :clap:

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Re: Nationals run days question

Post by Mike Simanyi » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:50 pm

And FJ is a group of supplemental classes, so the SEB can easily and immediately change rules if needed.

Edit: To be clear, I am not an anti-FJ person. I fully support the program. It's just that FJ is the only category where not only does everything in grid have to be motionless (besides FJ, that is) but also can't be running on course while FJ is gridding, and even the adjacent course isn't supposed to be running cars while FJ is running on their course.

So while they're all SCCA members, they also have a highly restrictive set of safety rules that adversely impact the overall operation of Nationals.

I could totally support Supplemental classes running their two courses on Monday...

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Re: Nationals run days question

Post by Rick Brown » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:39 am

Mike Simanyi wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:50 pm
I could totally support Supplemental classes running their two courses on Monday...
Sounds basically like a good idea, only negative I can think of is for FJ parents who run Thursday/Friday.
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Re: Nationals run days question

Post by Steve Ekstrand » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:36 pm

Stacey and I have made very clear our total and complete opposition to FJ on Monday at Nationals. I don't want to start that war up again.
Stopping the other course ONE year was the result of a poor course layout and the one of the worst weather conditions we've had for that heat.
Hysteria over so much as pushing a BM car in grid was an overzealous and misinformed Chief of Safety who I was promised would not be in that role again.
FJ probably didn't cost more than 10 minutes time per heat last year. I was the first car out after JB and monitoring the rest of the FJs. So, I was well aware of exactly how much hold time there really was. Adults who weren't even at that heat will quickly turn minutes into Sam Strano hours.
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