Papa Cal Club Election : RESULTS

[Christine Grice]

Where does speed ventures get their corner workers from? Obviously something they are doing is working if they are able to staff the increasing number of track days.

[Mike Simanyi]

Name the top three things that need to be done.

Oli,

I truly appreciate your effort here, but I have to say that we are doing the things *we* need to do to protect our business. There is nothing you - Cal Club - *can* do to help us. Honestly, we are not looking for your assistance. We are working toward being the best SCCA autocross operation in the country with the changes we have already begun to roll out.

Our core members - the ones deeply dedicated to autocross - are obsessive about this form of competition. You won't find them attending track events because they simply don't have time to participate there. These are people performing at the highest National level, working toward a National Championship. They aren't going to dilute their focus and resources across other motorsports.

That said, I have no problem cross-marketing. We have a lot of interest from other participants who may have some time to attend your events. They may even be willing to volunteer.

The thing that sticks in the craw of our serious, core members is (1) we pay the highest SCCA membership fee in the country and (2) even though we check the box that our dues should go to the autocross program, we see $0. That's wrong, but it's the reality of where we are and I doubt Cal Club can afford to change it, given their budget constraints.

Cal Club creating a partnership with Speed Ventures in direct autox competition with our operation? That's fundamentally wrong. National should've never allowed it. But it's done and the way those events operate, I doubt they'll have any significant impact on our operation. We provide large, challenging courses that Speed Ventures simply can't create or staff.

I encourage you and your friends to come play with us whenever you have the opportunity. You are the best Marketing available for Cal Club, and it's in a grassroots manner. It's fun and I'm sure it will be effective.

I write this with the highest respect for both you and your efforts.

Mike Simanyi
'09 CSCC Chair

[Christine Grice]

Mike's comments always sound so refined.

Note to self: be careful when asking people on this message board for their opinions.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

Mike's comments always sound so refined.

That's why he's our LEADER.........

[Tom Tanquary]

I would disagree it is the economy, maybe some impact in the last 90 days, but track days in the last couple of years are selling out and there are more of them calendared than ever.

It most definitely is the economy, and that leads to Christine's other two points about the fall-off. I think it's fair to say that the rr and solo groups don't have that many cross-overs. Solo tends to be a "less moneyed" group. And the folks with fewer $$ of disposable income take the hit first as the economy fails. I used to turn down work to go to events - not any more. I used to run R compound tires - not any more. I used to run in non-stock class - not any more. We've lost a lot of hard core members due to job loss. I think the club is doing everything as right as possible to make up for all the bad that's happening but like everything in this economy, we are getting squeezed. I think you underestimate the impact of what's been happening and what's going to happen. I also think you'll really see a very different '09 than you saw in '08. We are preparing for that and that's why our guard is up.

[Jayson Woodruff]

By the way Christine, this is pretty much 100% my idea and doing. I was asked to represent the RallyX group at a booth for the Jan '09 event almost a year ago and eventually leveraged that into a free weekend for Solo on a significant lot that has nothing to do with SCCA membership fees. You may not be 'happy' with the small course or the big discount, but I bet the $2,000 we pull away from that event will make you happy. I can't believe the amount of resistance I'm still getting for all this work I put in.

Jay W

Steve Stavely's response is to give us use of a tiny little infeild lot that presents more saftey problems than it does full throttle locations piggied onto the back of a roadrace day. Yeah, thats going to make me happy. Our current Solo leadership is at least attempting to try the concept out. We are trying. (I won't be going to that practice) The way it comes across to me is Steve is saying: "we'll let you guys us the little lot for free (lets ignore the fact that it doesn't cost Cal Club anything extra) just let us keep all of your scca membership dues"

[Steve Ekstrand]

Solo is in trouble nationwide. Not surprising. The problems will pass. The strong and creative will survive just fine.

What do we want Cal Club to do about it? Not a DAMN THING!!!!

I have no problem with solo competitors being recruited for Road Race volunteers. Its the model across the country. I have no beef if the road racers want to come to our events and give info, set up a booth, stage some T1 vs Solo guy battles. I want us to be friends and root for each other as we represent SoCal at Nationals and Runoffs. I just want the autonomy respected. I don't want Monty Holt (the last RE who tried to take us over) to come in and explain to us how we'd have 500 competitors at every championship if he was running things. All while some of the top solo event organizers in the country were sitting in the room laughing to themselves about what a blowhard idiot was taking up their valuable time.

Several years ago we established the Conefest at Buttonwillow series where we took the East loop at Buttonwillow while a road racer school was held on the West Loop. The Solo competitors hosted a BBQ for the club racer types and we provided a live band. It was a blast and was featured in Sportscar as an example for a top solo event. The last 5 years or so we haven't been able to strike a mutually beneficial deal with the club racers to share an event site like that and strike up just the sort of cross-fertilization that might draw more volunteers. Instead, all efforts have been ill concieved topdown efforts by club racing that come across as insulting or simply uninteresting.

A serious competitive time trial event series is replaced with clueless dangerous idiots chasing around a circuit until a big cloud of dust forms and hopefully nobody is hurt.

You also have to understand a basic problem with model for solo racers as volunteers for club racing. First we generally don't like each other. Club racers think of solo guys and weirdos out chasing cones around the quickie mart lot at 20 mph. They have no clue what the sport really is, they don't care, they just know its beneath them. Not true? Your fellow BoG members have publically made just those comments. On the other hand solo drivers often consider the Club Racers to be low on talent and big on checkbooks and ego. There is resentment, there is distrust. Much of that unfair, but not unearned.

There is another problem. The solo racer rarely fits the volunteer profile you're looking for. We're not in awe of the magnificent club racer cheating death at high speed. In fact we're probably laughing at your missed apexes and blown braking points. And we're doer's. I get up early and watch F1 live then drive to the track and DO IT. Maybe we don't have the money for a full on road racing effort, but we can chase our own dreams at whatever level we can afford. Solo guys chase national championships in expensive cars with moton triples and the chase jackets in cars worth less than a weekend tire budget for some road racers. There is a place in solo for a wide demographic. But all share the basic nature of being hands on the wheel. We are simply drivers not flaggers. Its not a 100% true, but its true enough to pay attention to.

So, I welcome your efforts, but understand the problems.

I see Papa Cal Club as our in-laws. We should be supportive and friendly. We should cheer for each others successes. Just don't be the mother-in-law trying to run my household.

[Steve Ekstrand]

The solo events speedventures put on concern me in a coupe of ways. First, the cramped courses are spot on to what my notion of solo2 was all through the 90's when I never tried it. I'd run autocross courses like that on a testing basis for CarCraft Magazine (at the old Shelby Center) and at a few ride and drives that let you go full out (jaguar with Danny McKeever and the BMW events). 19 second courses just didn't make it worth joining the sport. Talking about that problem at a car show with an active autocrosser, he convinced me that Cal Club solo was just what I was looking for. I'd said I'd do it if I could find courses 3 times longer. He takes me to Hollywood Park in April 2000 and its a Craig Angel masterpiece of a course that stretched nearly 1.2 miles. Three runs gave me tired arms the next day but I was hooked.

Here was a way to participate in motorsports without a race car or team. Whatever you had, or even a rental base model. You could go to a safe environment and run hard and over the edge, but bring it home in one piece and get to work on Monday. And it was primarily a drivers challenge. With skill you could impress even in crap cars. You might not win, but you could improve your skills and get the buzz from holding it together on a red mist lap.

If my first event had been with speedventures, I wouldn't have come back. And if somebody had tried to sway me to come to a CSCC solo event, I might have been jaded by the no work format number of runs and asked why I'd stand in the sun working for three stupid laps. Its a hard sell, until you do it for real. I can remember working course at a national event for the first time. I was in awe and learned more that day maybe than any other in my solo participation. Working an event is not a negative. Especially, when it allows us to have real events with challenging courses and intense competition.

So, I resent Speedventures, not just as a backstab from Papa CalClub. But also for the damage it does to the reputation of our sport. And don't get me started on the safety issues.

[Mike Simanyi]

By the way Christine, this is pretty much 100% my idea and doing. I was asked to represent the RallyX group at a booth for the Jan '09 event almost a year ago and eventually leveraged that into a free weekend for Solo on a significant lot that has nothing to do with SCCA membership fees. You may not be 'happy' with the small course or the big discount, but I bet the $2,000 we pull away from that event will make you happy. I can't believe the amount of resistance I'm still getting for all this work I put in.

Jay,

Thank you for all your effort on this. We *do* appreciate it!

Mike

[Mike Simanyi]

And don't get me started on the safety issues.

Oli,

For the record, Steve is one of our licensed Safety Stewards. His comment on the matter should not be taken lightly.

Mike

[Oli Thordarson]

Where does speed ventures get their corner workers from? Obviously something they are doing is working if they are able to staff the increasing number of track days.

Speed Ventures, Redline, Speet Trial USA, AROSC, POC, et al hire crews to work the corners. The crews are contracted through three different small firms that do this sort of thing. There may be more than three firms, but when you run as much as I do I get to know the starters and some of the workers. When doing 150+ on a road course these people become my friends. I can say the same for the SCCA volunteers. SCCA race flagging is far superior though.

[Jayson Woodruff]

Altough I respect all Safety Stewards, I don't believe Steve has ever been to the lot in question to see an event there or to a SpeedVenture autocross. So his comment on the matter shouldn't be taken as gospel either.

Jay W

And don't get me started on the safety issues.

Oli,

For the record, Steve is one of our licensed Safety Stewards. His comment on the matter should not be taken lightly.

Mike

[Steve Ekstrand]

I haven't been to the Speedventures autocrosses. They don't interest me. I won't be at the January event either. No interest.

Since I wasn't present I didn't go into detail on the safety issues, but I have serious concerns about the descriptions. And it would appear that in some cases our regulars expressed those concerns and had changes made to courses.

I am very familiar with the lot itself.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

Altough I respect all Safety Stewards, I don't believe Steve has ever been to the lot in question to see an event there or to a SpeedVenture autocross. So his comment on the matter shouldn't be taken as gospel either.

Then perhaps I may chime in on this, as I was instructing for the BMWCCA-LA Chapter (CCC - Car Control Clinic). The inside lots of AAA Speedway are PERFECT for a clinic or Evo School. Low speed, broken up exercises:

• skidpad
• emergency lane change (i.e. Chicago-Box/Bus-stop
• mini-mini-oval/slalom

But try to put in an SCCA type of auto-x course, and the time of the course is directly proportional to the risk of contact with a K-barrier. Meaning try to use up lots of real-estate and you run REAL close to either curbs or barriers. Pick your poison.

[Christine Grice]

By the way Christine, this is pretty much 100% my idea and doing. I was asked to represent the RallyX group at a booth for the Jan '09 event almost a year ago and eventually leveraged that into a free weekend for Solo on a significant lot that has nothing to do with SCCA membership fees. You may not be 'happy' with the small course or the big discount, but I bet the $2,000 we pull away from that event will make you happy. I can't believe the amount of resistance I'm still getting for all this work I put in.
Jay W

Steve Stavely's response is to give us use of a tiny little infeild lot that presents more saftey problems than it does full throttle locations piggied onto the back of a roadrace day. Yeah, thats going to make me happy. Our current Solo leadership is at least attempting to try the concept out. We are trying. (I won't be going to that practice) The way it comes across to me is Steve is saying: "we'll let you guys us the little lot for free (lets ignore the fact that it doesn't cost Cal Club anything extra) just let us keep all of your scca membership dues"

Jayson,
Did you tell us what you plan was? You might have told the E-board, but most of us don't have access to that forum, and I don't remember ever reading about it being discussed at the commitee meetings. Don't go out and do all the work, then expect an atta-boy, good job at the end because believe it or not, just because you think its a great idea, doesn't mean that everyone else thinks it's a great idea. With this group you have to sell it to us first.

Also, informing the general population of what is going on is a good way to make sure they don't infer something wrong, such as what I did thinking that it was coming from Cal Club. This club has struggled with in-fighting at times in the past because we have had leaders that assume that if they think its a good idea then everyone will think it is a good idea (and then they wonder why no one appreciates all of their hard work)

I agree with Mike, we do appreciate all of the effort that you put into this sport.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand of telling Oli our feelings about Papa Cal Club. (I hope we haven't scared him away)

Christine

[Steve Ekstrand]

In SCCA, we don't pick. We side with safety.

Other groups aren't as disciplined. And that puts the whole sport at risk. I don't think we want to recount the number of times accidents at marquee club events have put lot relations under stress or lost lots altogether.

Yeah yeah, SCCA isn't accident free, but we have a clear priority on safety that other groups simply don't have. Nothing is perfectly safe. You can be killed on the 210 traveling to an event.

[Aaron Goldsmith]

By the way Christine, this is pretty much 100% my idea and doing. I was asked to represent the RallyX group at a booth for the Jan '09 event almost a year ago and eventually leveraged that into a free weekend for Solo on a significant lot that has nothing to do with SCCA membership fees. You may not be 'happy' with the small course or the big discount, but I bet the $2,000 we pull away from that event will make you happy. I can't believe the amount of resistance I'm still getting for all this work I put in.

Jay W

First off, thanks Jayson. You put in a ton of work and we do recognize that, even if we don't say anything. My only (somewhat minor in the scheme of things) concern about that event, is that this is what the other people in Cal Club are going to think solo is all the time. I know putting El Toro inside Cal Speedway isn't an option, haha, and I have no doubt we can put on an awesome event no matter the lot size.

I Worry about the same thing with Mr. Thordarson, that he thinks our Practice days are what Solo is. Oli, you gotta come out to a Sunday event, maybe we can get you a drive in a car that is competitive in class nationaly and we might just get you hooked too.

Once again, thanks for the interest.

[Oli Thordarson]

Anyway, back to the topic at hand of telling Oli our feelings about Papa Cal Club. (I hope we haven't scared him away)

You have to work harder if you are going to do that!

[Marshall Grice]

I Worry about the same thing with Mr. Thordarson, that he thinks our Practice days are what Solo is. Oli, you gotta come out to a Sunday event, maybe we can get you a drive in a car that is competitive in class nationaly and we might just get you hooked too.

that's not true. I beat Oli by like 10 seconds at el toro when he ran CSM once.

haven't seen him since though. }:)

[Aaron Goldsmith]

I Worry about the same thing with Mr. Thordarson, that he thinks our Practice days are what Solo is. Oli, you gotta come out to a Sunday event, maybe we can get you a drive in a car that is competitive in class nationaly and we might just get you hooked too.

that's not true. I beat Oli by like 10 seconds at el toro when he ran CSM once.

haven't seen him since though. }:)

Oh DAMN, straight from history lessons to smack talk!

[Oli Thordarson]

I Worry about the same thing with Mr. Thordarson, that he thinks our Practice days are what Solo is. Oli, you gotta come out to a Sunday event, maybe we can get you a drive in a car that is competitive in class nationaly and we might just get you hooked too.

My first ever attendance at an autocross was the Sunday competition so I did get to see that format. I do really like the practices though. I love all the runs I got in.

I have to log off until tonight. I have to go earn enough to pay for my Internet bandwidth.....

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

Oh DAMN, straight from history lessons to smack talk!

This is the Cal Club Solo way. Where we let the timing slips do the talking I believe that was a PSCC event that Marshall is referring to 2yrs ago.

[Aaron Goldsmith]

Oh DAMN, straight from history lessons to smack talk!

This is the Cal Club Solo way. Where we let the timing slips do the talking I believe that was a PSCC event that Marshall is referring to 2yrs ago.

Oh no, it was definately 07 and Marshall if I remember correctly you got beat by a Lady driving a BMW that day.
http://www.solo2.com/results/2007-07-08r.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

My first ever attendance at an autocross was the Sunday competition so I did get to see that format. I do really like the practices though. I love all the runs I got in.

Practice is really a "misnomer". It's more test-n-tune/setup your car. Think of Sunday as YOUR version of qualifying, except instead of qualifying within a certain time period (say 1/2 hr of however many laps you can squeeze in), it's 3 laps....PERIOD. That's difficulty and beauty of the sport. And you'll NEVER see the same course twice. NEVER. They're like fingerprints or snowflakes. No 2 are the same (maybe similar but never the same).

[Oli Thordarson]

I Worry about the same thing with Mr. Thordarson, that he thinks our Practice days are what Solo is. Oli, you gotta come out to a Sunday event, maybe we can get you a drive in a car that is competitive in class nationaly and we might just get you hooked too.

that's not true. I beat Oli by like 10 seconds at el toro when he ran CSM once.

haven't seen him since though. }:)

That OK Marshall, keep talking smack... maybe I will make you eat those words in 09!

You will only beat me by five seconds next time....