Cal Club Autocross Forums

I know to always work on my driving first and then think about parts second, but when do you know it's time to get dual adjustable shocks?

Let's pretend I do have a car that has a shot at nationals and not.. the other car.
Let's pretend it's an HS 91 Civic or HS Audi 90 Quattro or an HS 94 Ford Escort GT with ABS.

How do I know when I'm ready to take advantage of D/A dampers/shocks/struts?

And what advantage am I getting with D/As over regular off the shelf shocks anyway?

MICHAEL Palero wrote:How do I know when I'm ready to take advantage of D/A dampers/shocks/struts?

And what advantage am I getting with D/As over regular off the shelf shocks anyway?

When you can answer the second question, you're ready for the first ;)

When you can answer the second question, you're ready for the first

You forgot to call him grasshopper.

Curt Luther wrote: When you can answer the second question, you're ready for the first ;)

Thanks Reverend.

Someday I'll be as fast as you

MICHAEL Palero wrote:

Curt Luther wrote: When you can answer the second question, you're ready for the first ;)

Thanks Reverend.

Someday I'll be as fast as you

I don't care who ya are, that's funny right there...

DAs are helpful in making a car more driveable or in dialing out or minimizing problems. The DAs on my car help in getting it to oversteer (more compression in the rear) and dialing out some oversteer and wheelspin (again playing with compression). Some cars need them (mine), some don't (Mazda 3 and Mini). I suggest the latter

Looking at your list above, I suggest talking to those who have set up such cars and ask their advice. They might also make my same suggestion above...

Curt Luther wrote:

MICHAEL Palero wrote:

Curt Luther wrote: When you can answer the second question, you're ready for the first ;)

Thanks Reverend.

Someday I'll be as fast as you

I don't care who ya are, that's funny right there...

DAs are helpful in making a car more driveable or in dialing out or minimizing problems. The DAs on my car help in getting it to oversteer (more compression in the rear) and dialing out some oversteer and wheelspin (again playing with compression). Some cars need them (mine), some don't (Mazda 3 and Mini). I suggest the latter

...

Me thinks i might need some Koni's in the fall.

If your car has a well-known formula to it, you can order the shocks with no adjustments or only single for fine-tuning.

OTOH, if you are developing a car for which there is no formula (say, an Escort GT) or you're having the shocks custom-built, it may be worth the doubles becuase you're going to have to make adjustments to find what works in your "formula". That's why I went with double on my Escort (GC Advance Design) even though I bolted them on, made adjustments once or twice and left them there for 3 years, even driving to/from events.

How effective double-adjustables are for you also depends on the type of driver you are. My theory is that there are "g" drivers and "slip" drivers. "Slip" drivers feel what the car is doing and adapt their inputs accordingly. "g" drivers are those who typically give the car the same inputs and use the g forces they feel to determine what's going on with the car.

I find that Slip drivers can adjust for different surfaces (including wet conditions), tire types, and car setup. "g" drivers don't adjust as well as they're not reacting to the car.

But... Slip drivers have a hard time detecting set up differences while g drivers readily feel them because the car reacts differently to the same physical inputs.

I'm a Slip driver. When I ran the Escort in FSP, I knew the car was faster than on street tires (roughy 2+ seconds with the tire change alone) but I really didn't feel it while driving. It wasn't a revelation, I was going for car reactions, not measured grip levels. That's one reason I got a DL1 - now I can measure the differences that I'm not feeling.

A more fundamental point...

Adding adjustability into a suspension is pointless unless you are willing to ADJUST. If you're not willing to get under the hood and under the car between runs and make intelligent, thoughful changes to improve your car's handling, then spending money on an adjustable suspension is a waste. I've seen people pay five figures for a Penske quadruple adjustable shock setup on their Viper and then ask the installer to "Set the adjustments to the best clicks for every race track."

You know Alan's Quattro was like 3500lbs, right? The Impreza is going to be cheaper and about 2650lbs, and you already know how to drive one....

Nobody likes Escorts....any good shock is going to be custom anyway. I don't think that for Stock class the Escort would need a DA. I am toying with the idea of running Bilsteins, just have them valved the way I like them and forget it. But then again, I am a "set it and forget it" driver....we only had two settings on the Impreza--- Dry to wet (#2 front, #8 rear), and super-wet (#1 front, #4 rear) on the AGX's. And even with that I probably could have just left them on one setting and driven around it....it was really nice to set all four on #1 for street driving, probably the biggest plus to having an adjustable shock in Stock class.

read this:

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

I'm in the camp of you should buy a set of high quality dampers, Highend Koni's, Highend Bilsteins, Penskes, Ohlins, etc and have them vavled by someone like Guy Ankeney for the spring you are running. After that shocks aren't something you worry about, work on alignment, swaybars, etc. Stock class is a little different with it's need to use the shock as a spring, but really you vavle them for the application and then work on everything else.