Suggestion Box...

[Brett King]

Guys,

Now, being a newbie, I'm just getting the jist of how things are done / etc... but I do have 1 thing that I experienced first hand that in a way, kinda sucked. I know that you guys have lost 1 person / member that I personally know to this problem, and probably more that I don't know of. I'm sure all of you have been there, and possibly had the same complaint / thoughts, so I'm just going to throw it out there. Try not to flame me too bad for being open / honest...

Saturday morning I went to sign up for practice, and as you all know, Yellow is the group to be in as you can get out early. So I asked to be Yellow group of course so I could do some other things that afternoon ( my brother-in-laws B-day ), and got denied, no biggie, I tried. The problem I had with it after was this...

Seeing as so many people got into the Yellow group, and so few into the Pink and Green groups, the Pink and Green groups really get shafted. Not only do you not get out early, but I must have been out flagging for 2 hours for the Yellow group. Meanwhile the Yellow group probably only had to flag for 45mins max for my group... AND got to leave early. I might be wrong on who I was out flagging for, but I know I was out there A LOT longer than someone that was flagging for my group was.

So, before you guys all jump on me for bringing this to light, I do totally agree that everyone must put in their time flagging, I have absolutely no problem with that at all. We all have to pay a price to have our fun which I totally agree with and understand. I just know for myself, that this is a little unfair and could be solved with a basic system. Take it or leave it, just a suggestion.

Could it be implemented to have a pre-set number of people per group ? ( for example 20 people per group max ) First come, first served basis ? That way the groups would be evenly maned for working duties, driving and resting. There would be no-more "we are short-handed for workers" and no more lob-sided working / flagging groups out there for 2 hours.

Sure I would love to get in the yellow group each time, but if I don't, then I don't. I had my chance, tough luck. All I know is that it would be a lot easier to swallow hanging out for 2 hours after I drive, than 3 or 4.

Thanks,

Brett

[Steve Ekstrand]

I have a set number when I do registration and most others do. But with our rotation of clubs hosting, you'll occasionally get somebody who hasn't faced the issue before or sometimes somebody with a "different opinion".

[Nicole Wong]

The groups looked balanced on the sheet when I went to register. I think the problem was the people who had the chief cards, they seemed to show up to run all in the same group.

[Daniel Tenenbaum]

Thank you for your feedback Brett and please accept my apology if you feel like you got "shafted" on your work assignment. It was my responsibility as Chief of Workers to make sure that each run group was sufficiently staffed. Yes you are right about the Yellow Run Group being the most popular group because it had the advantage of having the rest period last or the "you can leave early group" clause. On the other hand, the reason for the long group six work assignment was based on many factors including timing issues/delays, high cone counts and a large multi-driver count to name a few.

The main reason you were unable to get into the Yellow Group when you registered and got your work assignment was because the signups were heavy in favor of Yellow, so I needed to start staffing both Pink and Green. The system we use for Saturday practices is not perfect but I tried my best to accommodate drivers and get them into their group of choice whenever possible. We had a good number of drivers turnout for the Practice Day and in the end the only group we asked for volunteers for was the AM Pink work group, which was the first work group of the day and a few workers short of what was needed.

Overall the three groups were very well balanced after the late folks checked in, but the Yellow group did have a few more divers then the Pink or Green groups. It would have been impossible for me to give everyone the Work Run assignment of their choice, but I tried.

The only advice I can give you for getting the run group of your choice in future practice events would be to Pre-Register online and get to the registration booth as soon as it opens the morning of the Practice (usually between 7:30 and 8 AM).

Thanks you again for your feedback,
Daniel Tenenbaum (Chief of Workers TB Event April 2009)

[Daniel Tenenbaum]

The groups looked balanced on the sheet when I went to register. I think the problem was the people who had the chief cards, they seemed to show up to run all in the same group.

You are right, it did seem like a lot of Team Blew chief card holders opted for the same Run Groups (myself included).
Next TB Hosted Event we will make sure we spread out our runs over all the Run Groups.

[Aaron Goldsmith]

I have a set number when I do registration and most others do. But with our rotation of clubs hosting, you'll occasionally get somebody who hasn't faced the issue before or sometimes somebody with a "different opinion".

Yup, it's a pretty easy mistake to make if you haven't run into the problem before. Steve's suggestion to use a set number is the easiest way to make sure you don't get too many in the more desirable groups.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Yellow group run second?

Most with Chiefs cards can't run first at all. They are too busy with setup and such and then have to unload or prep their cars. Second group is really the first opp to run. Stacey and I didn't even think about what group might be most impacted. After things were setup and moving, we traded off and ran as fast as we could to get back. I think that meant our runs were in the second.

Maybe its worth under subscribing the second run group just for that reason, its a natural time for chiefs to run. Chiefs should also maybe be aware of when things are busy or light and try to have the least impact on runs. In past events, when I was close to the action and knew the situation, I've seen a group be light and an open starting queue and jumped in my car and made my laps then. Just couldn't do that here.

[Daniel Tenenbaum]

I have a set number when I do registration and most others do. But with our rotation of clubs hosting, you'll occasionally get somebody who hasn't faced the issue before or sometimes somebody with a "different opinion".

The system I used, which seemed to work for the most part, was to fill all the Trailer "skilled" positions first with qualified workers. Then get 12 course worker (1 radio and 2 cone chasers in each sector) for each group before considering that Color Run Group temporarily closed until all the other groups filled. I tried to save the Starter, Time Slips and Gate positions for workers who were unable to chase cones.

This was my first time filling the Chief of Workers shoes and I had to make a lot of judgment calls on the fly regarding the Saturday Practice Day work assignment.
I truly appreciate all the feedback and advice and I hope that my next event will be better then my first event.

[Brett King]

Guys... Nice. Looks like some wheels are turning. That's all I really wanted to do. I'm in it for the long haul. I know that nothing's perfect / people will duck out early when they should work ( which I wouldn't do ), so I'm not placing blame on anyone at all... and I truly don't feel like I got "shafted". I'm definitely not pissed or anything... just pointing out something from a different perspective ;)

I know that some people would probably get real hot under the collar if they were a newbie with no patience / understanding. Mind you, we probably wouldn't want to keep someone like that around anyway....

Now if you guys ever open up a Hawaiian Tropics model sun tan oil application job... I'd be all over that one for hours and hours with no gripes !!!!!

[Q V]

Well, fyi for the practice:

- Yellow group was UNDERSTAFFED for the afternoon session because of ppl leaving - I was moved from the start area -> other side
- Basically the entire last section was handled by 4 people
- Steve Abbott and I were handling the box -> turn-around -> slalom at the end; we were running A LOT for cones
- We were not relieved by the next work group until a good 15-20 minutes into their session; I'm sure other sections were just as bad, but we had by far the worse section
- it might have been that way for the other groups working that section in the afternoon as well, but yea...
- yellow group was definitely not working any less than any other group.

[Brett King]

Well, fyi for the practice:

- Yellow group was UNDERSTAFFED for the afternoon session because of ppl leaving - I was moved from the start area -> other side
- Basically the entire last section was handled by 4 people
- Steve Abbott and I were handling the box -> turn-around -> slalom at the end; we were running A LOT for cones
- We were not relieved by the next work group until a good 15-20 minutes into their session; I'm sure other sections were just as bad, but we had by far the worse section
- it might have been that way for the other groups working that section in the afternoon as well, but yea...
- yellow group was definitely not working any less than any other group.

This is exactly what I'm talking about... not really fair. When I was working the afternoon for the last group in section 2 ( for the 3 slalom cones, which kept my heart rate up ! ) there wasn't even anyone in the back corner, just 1 guy working 2 sections. He was having a tough time dealing with running back and forth...

[Brett King]

Would it be out of line to MAKE people stick around to work the last session they're supposed to ? Make it so if they are not signed off as working their session, they won't be allowed to race Sunday ??? I'm sure that would stop people from ducking out of working... }:)

[Aaron Goldsmith]

Would it be out of line to MAKE people stick around to work the last session they're supposed to ? Make it so if they are not signed off as working their session, they won't be allowed to race Sunday ??? I'm sure that would stop people from ducking out of working... }:)

That's how it supposed to work. Unless they leave at lunch and don't run in the afternoon, in which case they should let the worker chief know.

[Q V]

This is exactly what I'm talking about... not really fair. When I was working the afternoon for the last group in section 2 ( for the 3 slalom cones, which kept my heart rate up ! ) there wasn't even anyone in the back corner, just 1 guy working 2 sections. He was having a tough time dealing with running back and forth...

My main point in bringing up what I wrote was to address this part of your original post:

Seeing as so many people got into the Yellow group, and so few into the Pink and Green groups, the Pink and Green groups really get shafted. Not only do you not get out early, but I must have been out flagging for 2 hours for the Yellow group. Meanwhile the Yellow group probably only had to flag for 45mins max for my group... AND got to leave early.

- Pink & Green groups weren't shafted - I believe the groups were pretty even by the time everyone showed up; your thought that "so many people got into the yellow group" turned out to be wrong - aka yellow group was understaffed in the afternoon; morning was normal.

- I don't think yellow group ran for 2 hours; we were slow, but not ridiculously longer than other groups - it must have just felt like 2 hours for you, unless you were keeping track of the time. Furthermore, many people in Yellow worked longer than our assignment -> relief workers coming in late -> this exasperated the situation since yellow ran directly afterward.

I guess what I'm trying to point out is that your "long work assignment" wasn't contained to just your group & I don't think really had anything to do w/ too many people being in Yellow group (as I stated, I believe the groups ended up being pretty equal). Any delays you experienced were shared by many people, yellow, pink, green, what not. Remember, things feel like they take a lot longer when you are not driving, and vice versa.

As far as practices go, I felt the work/run groups ran pretty smoothly overall. I don't feel any one group got shafted, but certain workers had to shag cones more than others -> that goes for any event; it balances out in the long run; sometimes I get crappy assignments, sometimes I get laid back ones.

Looking on the bright side, working in the worse section of the course allowed me to see where, how, & potentially why people were coning -> made my subsequent runs that much better & faster. I helps to always look for the silver lining ;)

[Brett King]

- Pink & Green groups weren't shafted - I believe the groups were pretty even by the time everyone showed up; your thought that "so many people got into the yellow group" turned out to be wrong - aka yellow group was understaffed in the afternoon; morning was normal.

- I don't think yellow group ran for 2 hours; we were slow, but not ridiculously longer than other groups - it must have just felt like 2 hours for you, unless you were keeping track of the time. Furthermore, many people in Yellow worked longer than our assignment -> relief workers coming in late -> this exasperated the situation since yellow ran directly afterward.

I guess what I'm trying to point out is that your "long work assignment" wasn't contained to just your group & I don't think really had anything to do w/ too many people being in Yellow group (as I stated, I believe the groups ended up being pretty equal). Any delays you experienced were shared by many people, yellow, pink, green, what not. Remember, things feel like they take a lot longer when you are not driving, and vice versa.

As far as practices go, I felt the work/run groups ran pretty smoothly overall. I don't feel any one group got shafted, but certain workers had to shag cones more than others -> that goes for any event; it balances out in the long run; sometimes I get crappy assignments, sometimes I get laid back ones.

Looking on the bright side, working in the worse section of the course allowed me to see where, how, & potentially why people were coning -> made my subsequent runs that much better & faster. I helps to always look for the silver lining ;)

I'm not trying to get into a argument with what group worked longer / harder... that's not the complete point. Plus, I don't know all the complete details. I do know for a fact that I was flagging for at least 2+ hours in the pm ( I had to take a leak REALLY bad for the last hour which was why I started being a time hawk ). I also know for a fact that my group ( Pink ) wasn't running / driving for 2+ hours in the pm. That's an absolute fact. I also know that our, and your group was understaffed in the pm. I could care less if I have to run for cones every other car that goes by... I'd sooner do that and get a little work-out than standing around !

My point being is that evenly manned and timed work crews makes EVERYONE'S experience better.... Seems to me that you even had frustration with it. Remember, I'm on your side here with this point Quoc. ;) I'm just anti people that don't hold up to their end of responsibility and take advantage of others because they're too lazy or selfish to put in their fair share ( people leaving early and skipping out on work / helping out ). That's right.... I SAID IT !!!

Speaking up on issues big or small and communicating can only make things better, that's why I brought this up. If people spoke up and brought up stuff like this, everyone's lives would be a little bit better, and event's could run even smoother than they do, with EVERYONE attending being 110% satisfied with their experience. That's something on everyone's agenda right ?

The silver lining is that I had an absolute blast... regardless of this point. I WANTED to chase cones and be out on course so I could watch the section that I needed to speed up in. I'm not pissed about working hard and running around, please realize that. I was also super happy that I even made the cut into getting a practice spot. Silver lining #2 !

[Q V]

as for people who run and THEN skip out on their work assignment: they get banned from future events unless they make up the work - that's why we have worker check-in, so that's taken care of.

the understaffing, for the most part the Worker Chief knows about - aka as long as they tell the Worker Chief they are leaving in the afternoon. For the most part, this isn't usually a problem because less than a handful of people leave. This time, I guess it was different. They did try to alleviate the problem though, aka I mentioned I was moved from one section to another, but there's only so much you can do.

There was definitely a lot of communication going on (at least among the workers ourselves) to how to cover areas during my group. I'm sure the chiefs were doing what they can, but there's only so much you can do w/ the number of workers.

When you do see an issue out on course, find your radio person & let them know so that he/she can radio in to the trailer & let them know. Steve took command of the radio to make sure we were eventually relieved - if he hadn't, we would have probably been stuck out there longer. Communication works on both ends.

I do notice this is not nearly as much of a problem when we do the work once, run the rest of the day routine - basically, people who need to leave early can work one of the first groups then just however many runs they get before they leave (gaurantees they at least work the full shift). Of course, this style has its downsides for some people, too.

Definitely something we should bring up at the next Driver's Meeting for the practice (or preemptively during worker sign up) - tally who is planning on leaving half day, so that we can spread them evenly & make sure we have enough workers for every group.

[Rick Brown]

Thank you for your feedback Brett and please accept my apology if you feel like you got "shafted" on your work assignment. It was my responsibility as Chief of Workers to make sure that each run group was sufficiently staffed. Yes you are right about the Yellow Run Group being the most popular group because it had the advantage of having the rest period last or the "you can leave early group" clause. On the other hand, the reason for the long group six work assignment was based on many factors including timing issues/delays, high cone counts and a large multi-driver count to name a few.

The main reason you were unable to get into the Yellow Group when you registered and got your work assignment was because the signups were heavy in favor of Yellow, so I needed to start staffing both Pink and Green. The system we use for Saturday practices is not perfect but I tried my best to accommodate drivers and get them into their group of choice whenever possible. We had a good number of drivers turnout for the Practice Day and in the end the only group we asked for volunteers for was the AM Pink work group, which was the first work group of the day and a few workers short of what was needed.

Overall the three groups were very well balanced after the late folks checked in, but the Yellow group did have a few more divers then the Pink or Green groups. It would have been impossible for me to give everyone the Work Run assignment of their choice, but I tried.

The only advice I can give you for getting the run group of your choice in future practice events would be to Pre-Register online and get to the registration booth as soon as it opens the morning of the Practice (usually between 7:30 and 8 AM).

Thanks you again for your feedback,
Daniel Tenenbaum (Chief of Workers TB Event April 2009)

Looks like you are confusing Sat and Sun here. This was Sunday, not the practice: On the other hand, the reason for the long group six work assignment was based on many factors including timing issues/delays, high cone counts and a large multi-driver count to name a few.
and you can't pre-register online for practice events, only Championships.

[Mike Simanyi]

I've been told the problem with Saturday morning's 2nd group running long - the only one I saw that was obviously out of whack during the day - stemmed from a slew of participants showing up 30 minutes into the session. Many of the drivers who showed up on time were nearly done with their runs and the late attendees were only on their third run, complaining that they weren't getting enough runs.

We can - and will - improve considerably. Thanks, Brett, for starting the discussion.

Mike

[Steve Ekstrand]

Were there ever gaps at the line?

[Daniel Tenenbaum]

Looks like you are confusing Sat and Sun here. This was Sunday, not the practice: On the other hand, the reason for the long group six work assignment was based on many factors including timing issues/delays, high cone counts and a large multi-driver count to name a few.
and you can't pre-register online for practice events, only Championships.

Thank you for pointing that out Rick, I tried to fix that mental typo in my post but was unable. You are right there is NO online registration for Saturday. What I meant to say was, "send your checks in early and be there early in the AM to get your preferred work slot.

Would it be out of line to MAKE people stick around to work the last session they're supposed to ? Make it so if they are not signed off as working their session, they won't be allowed to race Sunday ??? I'm sure that would stop people from ducking out of working... }:)

That's how it supposed to work. Unless they leave at lunch and don't run in the afternoon, in which case they should let the worker chief know.

If you run your car and then don't report for work you will be reported as a DNW (Did Not Work). The working results are going thru the final audit, but I can report that I had all driver check in for their work assignment and had no DNW recorded on Sat or Sun. The CSCC Solo program takes DNW very seriously. We can not operate without all workers attending their work shifts. That being said we did have a large number of drivers who only ran and worked a half day during the Practice Day on Saturday. Approx 3-5 divers in the Yellow , 3-5 drivers in the Pink and a few in the Green Groups checked in with me and requested that they leave at lunch for various reasons. One had engine failure and needed to go home to fix it for Sunday. Another group had a funeral to attend. Etc. Etc.

It was my understanding that I should let them go, if they had a legit reason, because they had fulfilled their Work and Run requirement for the AM session. I understood that this would leave less workers for the receptive PM Work Groups, but that should have been offset by the fact that everyone who didn't work also didn't run their cars in their respective PM sessions.

[Mike Simanyi]

I understood that this would leave less workers for the receptive PM Work Groups, but that should have been offset by the fact that everyone who didn't work also didn't run their cars in their respective PM sessions.

Yes, that's their choice. The hosting club is supposed to put member volunteers on course if we're short on workers.

Mike

[Jamie Lessie]

On the side note;

The figure 8 and slalom were AWESOME!

Hopefully we can have some more "side tracks" set up at future events.