24 Hours of LeMons Racers Wanted!

Dennis R. Brown, DDS · Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:21 am

I would like to put together a team for the 24 Hours of LeMons Race for either the August 15-16 race at Buttonwillow (which sounds like it will be very HOT) or the Nov 21-22 race at Thunderhill in Willows. If you are not familiar with the event, it's an endurance race for cars costing $500 or less. You can spend more than that to make the cars safety compliant (roll cage, harnesses, brakes, etc.). The cost to enter is $500, plus $100 extra for each driver. Prizes are paid out, and I think first prize this year is $1500, unfortunately, it's usually paid in nickels! I think a 4-6 person team of drivers and "fix-it" type people would help because the cars will get banged up. I have a racing friend in GA that is doing September race in SC, and he says it is a blast. If anyone is interested, just post here, and I will have the replies sent to my email. You can check out the rules and info at http://www.24HoursofLeMons.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks,
Doc Brown

Mako Koiwai · Post by **Mako Koiwai** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:58 am

Team Blew thread on LeMons:

http://www.teamblewracing.com/forum/for ... p?TID=2992

Might pick up a couple of our drivers ... don't think we're going to have our own effort this year.

Dennis R. Brown, DDS · Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:58 am

Mako, I read your posts from the BLEW site. I know where we can get some things for cheap. I have a 6 point harness already. In this month's issue of GRM, Hankook has an ad with Ventus F200 slicks on closeout for $85, and Ventus Z214 Slicks also on closeout for $85. If we did the Thunderhill race, we would have plenty of time to prepare. I think an old BMW 325 would be a great choice, or an 80's Audi Quattro, VW Golf, or even an old Subi. I guess anything old and German would work, and the Subies can rack up the mileage. I raced dirt and paved ovals in Florida in the early 90's, but I don't have a comp license at the moment. I'm a NASA member, and will either work my way up the HPDE ranks to get my license, or if Apple and Google stock climb back up to where they were, then I will goto driving school to get my comp license. I think the estimate you guys gave of $250-300/ person for a 6 man team is spot on. I am on good terms with the guys at the Ramona Tire Store near me in MV, so I can see what they can find for tires to use, even possibly looking into getting some lightly used competition tires. GRM or Sportscar had an issue about companies that sell used tires from big budget factory teams that only use their tires for 1 or 2 heat cycles and then sell them for $75 or so per tire. I could do a lot of the searching for stuff since I can no longer practice because of my back disability. I just need the names of the Salvage places you guys mentioned so I could go look around, plus, I can keep an eye out on craigslist for any bargains.

DocBrown

Jamie Lessie · Post by **Jamie Lessie** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:39 am

Dennis R. Brown, DDS wrote:In this month's issue of GRM, Hankook has an ad with Ventus F200 slicks on closeout for $85, and Ventus Z214 Slicks also on closeout for $85.

WHERE?!?!

I would like to LeMons. I have for many years. I will have to see my schedule and make sure I am not out of the country. I am not that good at fixing things like that but I know how to use duct tape!

Jason Isley BS RX8 · Post by **Jason Isley BS RX8** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:31 pm

Dennis R. Brown, DDS wrote: In this month's issue of GRM, Hankook has an ad with Ventus F200 slicks on closeout for $85, and Ventus Z214 Slicks also on closeout for $85. I am on good terms with the guys at the Ramona Tire Store near me in MV, so I can see what they can find for tires to use, even possibly looking into getting some lightly used competition tires. GRM or Sportscar had an issue about companies that sell used tires from big budget factory teams that only use their tires for 1 or 2 heat cycles and then sell them for $75 or so per tire.
DocBrown

Someone needs to check the tire rules for that event before they buy a bunch of stuff. ;) 190+ treadwear

Dennis R. Brown, DDS · Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:06 pm

WHERE?!?!

Jamie, if you get GRM the ad is on page 96. If you don't, the places listed are as follows:
http://www.aimtire.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.frisbyracetire.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.sierratire.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The sites are not very friendly to use, but I'm sure if you call the places directly they might be able to shed some light on the closeouts.

Then the article about buying used race rubber is on page 91 of the same GRM edition.

Don't worry, I'm not buying anything until there's an agreement (learned that one in the first year of law school in Contracts I & II)

Doc Brown

Dennis R. Brown, DDS · Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:34 am

Found these Bimmers on Craigslist. Just wanted to get an idea of what is out there.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/1135456581.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ('86 325es $500)

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ctd/1112326464.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ('87 325i $500)

Just a start with OC ads in Craigslist. I'm sure could find more in SD, LA, IE, and San Bern.

DocBrown

P.S. Saw some cheap Subis too.

Jamie Lessie · Post by **Jamie Lessie** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:55 am

A repossession auction may be a good place to find something. Cheap but you don't know the history of the car.

Dennis R. Brown, DDS · Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:33 pm

Jamie,

I agree about the police and DEA auctions, but I worry that even if you paid under $500 for a nice car that would easily be worth more based on Kelly Blue Book value the race organizers might invoke the BSF rule (Bullshit Factor) for the intrinsic value of the car. I'll have to disect the rules in regards to this issue. If I don't find anything written in black and white, I will contact the organizers directly for a response. Regadless, it was a good idea Jamie. I hadn't thought about the police auctions for LeMons cars. Thanks.

Docßrown
http://www.Pickensplan.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kurt Rahn · Post by **Kurt Rahn** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:07 pm

Dennis R. Brown, DDS wrote:Jamie,

I agree about the police and DEA auctions, but I worry that even if you paid under $500 for a nice car that would easily be worth more based on Kelly Blue Book value the race organizers might invoke the BSF rule (Bullshit Factor) for the intrinsic value of the car. I'll have to disect the rules in regards to this issue. If I don't find anything written in black and white, I will contact the organizers directly for a response. Regadless, it was a good idea Jamie. I hadn't thought about the police auctions for LeMons cars. Thanks.

Docßrown
http://www.Pickensplan.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My understanding is that even if they let you in with a car they know is worth more than $500, there are opportunities for your fellow racers to vote your car into oblivion. I think I'd stick with a known POS and fixing it up as well as possible instead of trying to get cute.

Mako Koiwai · Post by **Mako Koiwai** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:03 pm

instead of trying to get cute.

Jamie can't help it ...

(She's got nerves of steel however ... check out her Avatar. She raises Tarantulas for tire money! :mrt:

Jeff Shyu · Post by **Jeff Shyu** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:07 pm

there's also the "buy out" clause.

i wouldn't want to drop 2k into a car and half a guy come buy it for 500..

Dennis R. Brown, DDS · Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:30 pm

Kurt Rahn wrote: My understanding is that even if they let you in with a car they know is worth more than $500, there are opportunities for your fellow racers to vote your car into oblivion. I think I'd stick with a known POS and fixing it up as well as possible instead of trying to get cute.

Unless we get someone's nice pimped 1981 Coupe de Ville! Can you imagine doing a 24 hour race in a car with a Caddy suspension and the seats in a gangster-lean position. We'll call it the CSCC SOLO Hoopty!

DocBrown
http://push.pickensplan.com/profile/DrDennisRBrown" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dennis R. Brown, DDS · Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:59 pm

Mako Koiwai wrote: Jamie can't help it ...(She's got nerves of steel however ... check out her Avatar. She raises Tarantulas for tire money! :mrt:

I can handle snakes, I've accidently stepped on an alligator before (grew up in rural Florida), I've been bumped in the leg by a shark while surfing in Cocoa Beach, FL (if you look at the water in Florida from the airplanes that fly the banner ads over the beaches, you can see dozens of sharks chasing the fish about 100 yards from shore), but spiders freak me out. Sorry Jamie! I'm sure they're very friendly and loving creatures, at least up to the point at which the female kills the male after breeding!

DocBrown
http://push.pickensplan.com/profile/DrDennisRBrown" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jamie Lessie · Post by **Jamie Lessie** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:06 pm

Dennis R. Brown, DDS wrote:
Mako Koiwai wrote: Jamie can't help it ...(She's got nerves of steel however ... check out her Avatar. She raises Tarantulas for tire money! :mrt:
I can handle snakes, I've accidently stepped on an alligator before (grew up in rural Florida), I've been bumped in the leg by a shark while surfing in Cocoa Beach, FL (if you look at the water in Florida from the airplanes that fly the banner ads over the beaches, you can see dozens of sharks chasing the fish about 100 yards from shore), but spiders freak me out. Sorry Jamie! I'm sure they're very friendly and loving creatures, at least up to the point at which the female kills the male after breeding!

DocBrown
http://push.pickensplan.com/profile/DrDennisRBrown" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If food is scarce the female may consume the male after mating. The extra protein will help with the 100+ baby pregnancy. When I bred mine they did just fine. The female had no intent of eating my male when she was done.

Sharks and Alligators are scary though. They can eat me, my spiders can't come close to that!

Jamie Lessie · Post by **Jamie Lessie** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:17 pm

I don't want to pull the rotary card here but I think an FC would be something to consider for the race. I know many people with over 300k on their N/A FC's stock engine. I almost got a pretty nice one last year with low mileage for around a gand. $500 for one would not be unbelievable. The big downside is that if the radiator punctures due to rock or collision the engine is done for.

Years ago I used to race a car with a 91 mustang 5.0 engine. The radiator had issues and clogged. I raced it on many occasions and drove it around town with no functional radiator and it still runs like a champ. Not something I would do now but foxbody mustangs are cheap and that 5.0 is a darn near bulletproof engine.

I don't know of any auctioneers in the OC/LA area but these two are my favorites here is San Diego. There is always plenty to choose from and unless you want a Cadillac or honda civic (or other ghetto-cool car) the price is usually good.
http://www.contractservices.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.roadonesandiego.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (the Otay auction is the good one)

Mako Koiwai wrote:
instead of trying to get cute.
Jamie can't help it ...

(She's got nerves of steel however ... check out her Avatar. She raises Tarantulas for tire money! :mrt:

I was going to pull out my eggsac tonight and put it in an incubator but I know my mother would have a fit. She says when I have kids I will understand

I really don't understand why she is so concerned about it. She used to hate spiders ;)

That is a cute picture btw. I don't like that XXL sweater on me but that is why I wear it to autocross. If it gets oil all over it I wont care haha. Thanks again for the great pictures Mako!

Dennis R. Brown, DDS · Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:20 pm

Jamie Lessie wrote: Sharks and Alligators are scary though. They can eat me, my spiders can't come close to that!

At least with sharks and alligators you can flip them on their backsides (or upside down with the shark) and it will put them to "sleep". They both have problems with blood flow to their brains when they are inverted, which causes them to lose consciousness. Biology and Psychology were my majors, so I learned that thing about sharks and alligators in Animal Physiology and Anatomy. I never took an Entomology class, so I'm not that familiar with things like that when it comes to insects and arachnids.

DocBrown
http://push.pickensplan.com/profile/DrDennisRBrown" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ethan West · Post by **Ethan West** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:28 pm

I know that many people have used Crown Vics with a good amount of success.

Mako Koiwai · Post by **Mako Koiwai** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:31 pm

I was going to pull out my eggsac tonight

Jamie ... PLEASE ... :barf:

Dennis R. Brown, DDS · Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:00 pm

Jamie Lessie wrote:I don't want to pull the rotary card here but I think an FC would be something to consider for the race. I know many people with over 300k on their N/A FC's stock engine. I almost got a pretty nice one last year with low mileage for around a gand. $500 for one would not be unbelievable. The big downside is that if the radiator punctures due to rock or collision the engine is done for...I don't know of any auctioneers in the OC/LA area but these two are my favorites here is San Diego. There is always plenty to choose from and unless you want a Cadillac or honda civic (or other ghetto-cool car) the price is usually good.
http://www.contractservices.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.roadonesandiego.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (the Otay auction is the good one)

I have no problem with an FC. Well, actually I guess that's not true. I do have a problem with having to always race my 350Z against those darn RX-8s in B-Stock! However, for a LeMons car I would have no problem. Maybe it would help me understand them a little more and allow me to level the playing field in BS. I'm really curious to see how well I do against KJ and the other RX-8s at Lone Pine, where me Z can reach it's full powerband on the long course.
I've heard of the Road One auction before while I lived in Oceanside. I could take a trip down there one auction day if it looks like they will have a decent selection of cars.

What types of cars should we put on a short list for our endeavor? We've mentioned BMW, Audi, Subaru, Mazda, and Mustang. Any other ideas for cars to add to the list?

DocBrown
http://push.pickensplan.com/profile/DrDennisRBrown" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kurt Rahn · Post by **Kurt Rahn** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:58 pm

Mako Koiwai wrote:She raises Tarantulas for tire money! :mrt:

That thing is real!?!? I thought it was a plastic halloween toy. Holy crap, Batman!

Jamie Lessie · Post by **Jamie Lessie** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:27 am

Dennis R. Brown, DDS wrote:Jamie,

I agree about the police and DEA auctions, but I worry that even if you paid under $500 for a nice car that would easily be worth more based on Kelly Blue Book value the race organizers might invoke the BSF rule (Bullshit Factor) for the intrinsic value of the car.

If it looks too nice you can always take a sand blaster to the paint and then rattle-can the bumpers a different color, maybe even do one of the doors in a third color.

My dad had a friend in college who always carried a baseball bat in his truck. When he got low on money he would sell “swats.” People just weren’t allowed to hit the glass/lights etc. It would be a great way to raise money for the event and decrease the value of the car.

Dennis R. Brown, DDS wrote: What types of cars should we put on a short list for our endeavor? We've mentioned BMW, Audi, Subaru, Mazda, and Mustang. Any other ideas for cars to add to the list?

Ethan West wrote:I know that many people have used Crown Vics with a good amount of success.

That 5.0 engine was also put into Crown Vics and T-birds. Good idea!

The competitor to the mustang at the time was the IROC Camaro. Years ago my boyfriend almost got a pretty nice one from a lady in North County for $2,000. I don’t know what they go for now. It is nice because parts (oem and aftermarket) are so widely (and cheaply) available for it.

Dennis R. Brown, DDS wrote: I could take a trip down there one auction day if it looks like they will have a decent selection of cars.

They have hundreds of running POS’s every week. Dig in! Auction lists and photos of the cars can be found on the links I posted earlier.

Also, If you do want an FC you are welcome to borrow my Rotary compression tester. I just ask that you bring it back when you are done

If you do get an FC do not get a turbo. Turbo = little/no reliability.

Kurt Rahn wrote:
Mako Koiwai wrote:She raises Tarantulas for tire money! :mrt:
That thing is real!?!? I thought it was a plastic halloween toy. Holy crap, Batman!

Here is the same spider at dinner time. If you are afraid of spiders I do not recommend you watch this!
http://vimeo.com/4322643?pg=share_email ... om/4322643" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mako Koiwai · Post by **Mako Koiwai** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:58 am

A better shot of Jamie's Linux:

Andrew Bingham · Post by **Andrew Bingham** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:02 am

I have a 95 Protege that would be available for <$500 if anyone wants to use it for this race. It's doing me no good sitting in the street, I doubt I'd be able to sell it for more than $500 due to previous damage, and it'd be sweet to have it go out as a race car. In 2006 I drove it all the way across the country in 5 days, so I think reliability wise it should be okay with the right preparation.

Ian Stewart · Post by **Ian Stewart** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:40 pm

The key here is not to take this seriously

It's a spectacle, not a race, and master Jay can out you at any time for any reason. For that matter, the hardest part to Lemons is getting in in the first place. The more ridiculous your car and theme, the better your entry chances

If your approach this like a race, you will be frustrated and disappointed, and probably mocked and ridiculed at the event for that matter...

If you’re really interested in "winning" the event, it's more about a huge gas tank and fewer drivers with bigger bladder then hot shoes and a quick car.

In fact our entry for Reno is SOOOO ratty and crapped out I couldn't bring myself to enter it in to GRA practice, they'd probably refuse to tech the thing for fear of catching the crud bug or something...

BTW, anybody up for welding a cage up in our 280z in the next week or two?

If anybody dares gaze at the horror of our car, just let me know

cheers,

Ian

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