PAX'ing

[Kurt Rahn]

Okay, since it seems like everyone is taking a weekend siesta, I figure I'll throw out a topic for discussion...

I've been looking at PAX multipliers, and I noticed that Steve Ekstrand's STS2 Civic is just one one thousandth off my DS whale (.816 vs .815). I challenge anyone driving both cars to get a time in my car within 2-3 sec (optimistically) of the Cupcake Mobile. Who comes up with these classes? Do the Big Boys and Girls all get together in a small, locked room and decide where each car should be placed, or is there some sort of "public" input? What criteria do they use to class the Stock cars? I guess it's a tough job classing every car that's introduced, so I shouldn't even ask.

[Aaron Goldsmith]

A nationally competitive DS car on hoosiers with the right shocks and a decent driver should be about that fast.. that's all it's sayin. DS is the Type R class nationally right? I can't remember right now.

[Kurt Rahn]

Good point, actually. I've done nothing to my car, and I imagine DAs would at least help a little. A Type R would destroy it no matter what I did though. Tom Denham's WRX does so regularly too (though I imagine there's a good deal of driver skill involved in that result too). Just interesting to look at the diversity of cars in DS and the standard they're held to Pax wise.

[Eric Clements]

DS is the Type R class nationally right? I can't remember right now.

The 135 and cobalt SS are looking good for DS.

[Eric Clements]

Kurt,
To be nationally competitive (or locally around here) in Solo you need to pick the class you want to run in THEN pick the car for it.

[Bill Schenker]

Kurt,
To be nationally competitive (or locally around here) in Solo you need to pick the class you want to run in THEN pick the car for it.

Just don't pick BSP/SM/CSM or you'll have to face the Berry Family Racing juggernaut where you are doomed!

[Aaron Goldsmith]

Kurt,
To be nationally competitive (or locally around here) in Solo you need to pick the class you want to run in THEN pick the car for it.

Just don't pick BSP/SM/CSM or you'll have to face the Berry Family Racing juggernaut where you are doomed!

AS, BS, CS, DS, ES, FS, ASP, DSP, ESP, FSP aren't easy either.. I hear CSP is a cakewalk though.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Kurt-

Just think, you'd be 4-5 seconds behind the Yeoh Flores mobile.

Locally we do adjust for street tires in the SK classes. I don't remember what it is these days???? It used to be .980. If that's it then the SK2-DS would be .799. So, on a 60 second course I should be about a second faster than a DS car on streets.

I actually consider DS one of the softest paxes out there. Just wait for Dr. Erik in the 135 and Madman Dietz in the CobaltSS.

[Don Salyers]

Kurt, when I came back to Autocrossing, after a 40 yr vacation from the sport, I happened to have a 98 cobra/mustang convert. which I could make competitive locally for about $3000. (Tires, rims, shocks, brake pads, air filter, and catback exhaust, didn't do anything to the front sway bar). That expense plus Tom Berry driving would have been a border line trophy winner at nationals two or three years ago in FS. Last year the Shelby GT was placed in FS and the pax went from .809 to .821 and now the only car that is competitive nationally is the Shelby GT, check the national entries.

Point of the story, if you don't have the right car for the right class, Kurt, you must buy one!

Which brings up another question--that of cost! On a scale of 1 to 10 what would each classification or class rate.

From what I know (most people think thats nothing)!

FS---3 or 4 (20,000 to 40,000)
F125---1 (4,000 for sale now)
GP---2 (10,000-15,000)

Don

[Kurt Rahn]

To be nationally competitive (or locally around here) in Solo you need to pick the class you want to run in THEN pick the car for it.

Believe me, that's the conclusion I've been coming to. I'm pretty sure that (cost to be competitive aside) I wouldn't want to run in BSP/SM/CSM (Berry) or CSP (Schenker). There aren't any cupcake classes, though (except SK2L-Ashley), just ones I'd have more of a chance in a well-prepped car. Gotta learn how to drive better too

[Kurt Rahn]

Just wait for Dr. Erik in the 135 and Madman Dietz in the CobaltSS.

When I saw the 135 got put in DS, I almost wet myself. What I can't figure out is why the 335 (heavier, bigger, 4 doors) wasn't put into DS, given that that seems to be the sedan class more or less.

[Kurt Rahn]

Point of the story, if you don't have the right car for the right class, Kurt, you must buy one!

I've come to that conclusion too. I'm weighing whether I'm going to buy a Mini when my lease on Moby is up or buy a Civic or CRX now and start building it up as I can afford it. I guess it'll come down to how patient I am and how long I can take getting my a$$ handed to me. If I go for the Mini, I have to wait until Oct./Nov. 2009 when my lease on Moby is up. On the other hand, I could probably find a decent Civic/CRX in the next month or so.

[Tom Denham]

Good point, actually. I've done nothing to my car, and I imagine DAs would at least help a little. A Type R would destroy it no matter what I did though. Tom Denham's WRX does so regularly too (though I imagine there's a good deal of driver skill involved in that result too). Just interesting to look at the diversity of cars in DS and the standard they're held to Pax wise.

I can get some more time out of the WRX, if I fully prepped it and got rid of my OEM Struts.
I am still working on the Driver though.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Pretty damn impressive what Tom Denham is doing on OEM struts. Wow, I didn't know that. You can drive buddy.

[Chuck Fowler]

Pretty damn impressive what Tom Denham is doing on OEM struts. Wow, I didn't know that. You can drive buddy.

aren't they the ORIGINAL OEM's?

[Steve Ekstrand]

I don't even keep my street cars on OEM dampers much less my competition car.

[Tom Denham]

Pretty damn impressive what Tom Denham is doing on OEM struts. Wow, I didn't know that. You can drive buddy.

aren't they the ORIGINAL OEM's?

Yes.

[Kurt Rahn]

aren't they the ORIGINAL OEM's?

Yes.

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!

[Michael Palero]

There aren't any cupcake classes, though (except SK2L-Ashley), just ones I'd have more of a chance in a well-prepped car. Gotta learn how to drive better too

What do you mean when you say SK2L is a cupcake class? There are 2 ladies in SK2L btw.

[Kurt Rahn]

What do you mean when you say SK2L is a cupcake class? There are 2 ladies in SK2L btw.

Reference to one of the ladies' nicknames...

[Ashley Armstrong]

That's the first time anybody's ever called me a lady :heyes:

[Jeff Ringer]

Point of the story, if you don't have the right car for the right class, Kurt, you must buy one!

I've come to that conclusion too. I'm weighing whether I'm going to buy a Mini when my lease on Moby is up or buy a Civic or CRX now and start building it up as I can afford it. I guess it'll come down to how patient I am and how long I can take getting my a$$ handed to me. If I go for the Mini, I have to wait until Oct./Nov. 2009 when my lease on Moby is up. On the other hand, I could probably find a decent Civic/CRX in the next month or so.

-----------------------------------

kurt why dont you make the move to a proper sports car layout :ibrightdea: ....bag the nose heavy front driver options ESPECIALLY with open diff.. :barf:
we are talking autocross racing here .. yes steves civic is a fun lightweight front driver but its still front drive ..

if you cant daily drive the mr2 :heyes: then get an mr2 AND an old civic hatch to haul the kegs ;)
E Stock needs more local drivers and mr2's are very fun, cheap and challenging

[Kurt Rahn]

if you cant daily drive the mr2 then get an mr2 AND an old civic hatch to haul the kegs

Amusingly enough, I've been considering an MR2 lately...just need to see if I fit in one. My size makes the whole Miata thing a pipe dream (Although seeing me try yo get into one is an entirely new kind of comedy). I just need to figure out of I can squeeze in. I'm gonna have to do a few test drives. Also, which are the preferred model years/trim levels? I have to say, as astoundingly massive as my car is, the one thing that makes it fun to drive (and give it some semblance of legitimacy) is the fact that it's RWD and has close to 50/50 weight distribution. I'd love to get a relatively cheap RWD car.

[Jeff Ringer]

how tall are you ? kj was able to drive my sunroof car though not sure if he would like to deal with it every race.... next practice you can drive my car

93+ hardtop with abs is probably the hot car.. you can find cheap lightweight 15" wheels used and have larger size tire options and a larger contact patch... 93 + are rare and hard tops are very rare..

it seems 91 92 are much more common on the market
draw backs- you have to run 14" wheels ... plus you have to drop $850 on custom wheels unless you run stockers which are heavy... i bet its possible to win nats in a 91 92.. also, 5 less hp but they are supposed to weigh very slightly less

travel if there is a prepped 93 car for sale .. actually a non california 93 + hardtop is the most desirable car being it only has one cat

my 91 car has no power steering and no abs which makes things tricky at times....steering is pure and the car just turns so quickly with no weight on the front...power steering adds a little weight but its also a quicker ratio...i like my manual rack - however, abs would be helpful ...car is more fun then my former m3 on the autox track believe it or not- its surely more challenging..'if you can drive an mr2 fast you can drive anything fast'... i think that is eric's quote

[Kurt Rahn]

I'm 6'3", but I think my girth...300 lbs...is possibly the killer. I'd love to drive your car at the next practice. No better way to figure out if that's the car for me. Are you going to the Sept. practice or are you at nats.? You can drive mine in exchange for shits and giggles It's actually sort of amusing.

You're right. Almost everything I saw was a T-top...a few w/ hard top an sunroof...none w/o sunroof. Just out of curiousity, if you wanted to run a non-turbo MR2 in one of the prepared classes, which would it run in? It looks like STS and STS2 are specifically out.