Cal Club Autocross Forums

I'm sure I missed something, having been focused on STS, but I was looking over the results of the Dixie "Tour" event and noticed that all the "Street" classes were running at this first national level event for the year. Is there a reason that So Cal Solo is not running the Street classes separately as well, as opposed to combining everyone into an indexed class?

Not that this explains why, but here's what's being run locally, as was voted on at the end of the year last year.

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So we don't have to pay so much to those dirty thieving trophy manufacturers!

The consensus among the potential competitors as surveyed by the club reps was that they wanted the old class system (SK1, SK2) because they liked the competition. It was determined none of the classes could survive on their own and that separating the classes diluted the competition, which nobody (or few) wanted. Also, competitors wanted the classes split up better - the old SK1 class didn't want to compete in the same class as the old SK2 as in RTR. Not sure why GS and HS were split off from SK2, but most of those cars are non-sports cars or older sedans and coupes that didn't really fit against the Miatas, WRXs, MINIs, etc. Hence, we have S1, S2, and S3.

Ed Holley wrote:I'm sure I missed something, having been focused on STS, but I was looking over the results of the Dixie "Tour" event and noticed that all the "Street" classes were running at this first national level event for the year. Is there a reason that So Cal Solo is not running the Street classes separately as well, as opposed to combining everyone into an indexed class?

Okay. So it appears that I missed the party back in October when this was apparently discussed. However, it seems as though the preponderance of limited opinion was to have Street classes be kept separate THIS YEAR. So, if true, what happened at the Board level.

I know this is pretty much accomplished for this year, but it seems to me that grouping classes is counter-productive to attracting drivers to any particular individual class. Less interest, fewer entries, less income. At least that's the way we look at it in the "dirty thieving" industry that I'm a part of. ;)

Leonard Cachola wrote:The consensus among the potential competitors as surveyed by the club reps was that they wanted the old class system (SK1, SK2) because they liked the competition. It was determined none of the classes could survive on their own and that separating the classes diluted the competition, which nobody (or few) wanted. Also, competitors wanted the classes split up better - the old SK1 class didn't want to compete in the same class as the old SK2 as in RTR. Not sure why GS and HS were split off from SK2, but most of those cars are non-sports cars or older sedans and coupes that didn't really fit against the Miatas, WRXs, MINIs, etc. Hence, we have S1, S2, and S3.

As a "potential competitor", which includes EVERYONE BTW, I must have missed that memo from the Club Rep.

I think this falls under, "the more things change, the more they stay the same" for some. At this point, it is what it is. But, in accepting your description above, there would be no reason for it to be any different in 2015. So, what's the plan for next year?

In the meantime, the SCCA's train has left the station in 2014. It likes the idea of standalone classes.

Ed Holley wrote:[
As a "potential competitor", which includes EVERYONE BTW, I must have missed that memo from the Club Rep.

Sounds like it. You'll have to talk to your Club Rep about that. I know our Club Rep solicited responses through the forum.

So just hypothetically, if you could choose to have eight classes with one entry each, or a paxed class of eight...you would go for the individual classes?

If you buy into that non-realistic example, then it's just a matter of where you choose to put the line.

Ed Holley wrote:I think this falls under, "the more things change, the more they stay the same" for some. At this point, it is what it is. But, in accepting your description above, there would be no reason for it to be any different in 2015. So, what's the plan for next year?

It was determined that we would try it out this year and then see if we wanted to continue it next year. Since this is a local decision, we can change it next year if we want. We can even change it this year if there were enough people who want it, but this is the first I've heard of anyone opposing this decision so far this year.

Bill Martin wrote:So just hypothetically, if you could choose to have eight classes with one entry each, or a paxed class of eight...you would go for the individual classes?

If you buy into that non-realistic example, then it's just a matter of where you choose to put the line.

Bill, I understand perfectly where you are coming from. But there are different perspectives, including the idea of actually building classes where needed, and driving new people to a class where they can say, "hey, there's a class I can put my car in in which most of the cars are on the same par. Maybe I can beat those guys by being a better driver". Lumping them into a paxed class is detrimental of accomplishing that, in my opinion. That's why SCCA, which is all about increased participation and membership these days, has chosen to have standalone classes. Jus say'n. ;)

Ed Holley wrote:

Ed Holley wrote:I'm sure I missed something, having been focused on STS, but I was looking over the results of the Dixie "Tour" event and noticed that all the "Street" classes were running at this first national level event for the year. Is there a reason that So Cal Solo is not running the Street classes separately as well, as opposed to combining everyone into an indexed class?

Okay. So it appears that I missed the party back in October of 1914 ...

Fixed that for you, Ed. Yes, you're welcome.

Bill Schenker wrote:

Ed Holley wrote:

Ed Holley wrote:I'm sure I missed something, having been focused on STS, but I was looking over the results of the Dixie "Tour" event and noticed that all the "Street" classes were running at this first national level event for the year. Is there a reason that So Cal Solo is not running the Street classes separately as well, as opposed to combining everyone into an indexed class?

Okay. So it appears that I missed the party back in October of 1914 ...

Fixed that for you, Ed. Yes, you're welcome.

Thank you Bill! That's why I look up to you (figuratively) and respect your opinion as to pretty much EVERYTHING. And this is just another example of why. So well thought out.

Leonard Cachola wrote:

Ed Holley wrote:I think this falls under, "the more things change, the more they stay the same" for some. At this point, it is what it is. But, in accepting your description above, there would be no reason for it to be any different in 2015. So, what's the plan for next year?

It was determined that we would try it out this year and then see if we wanted to continue it next year. Since this is a local decision, we can change it next year if we want. We can even change it this year if there were enough people who want it, but this is the first I've heard of anyone opposing this decision so far this year.

I wasn't really hot on it last year when it was proposed, but I was outnumbered. I was more for a structure like CPM was in the past: if you could make a class, then you got split off into your own class. If not, you remained lumped in with the crowd. That way, bigger classes could compete with each other and the stragglers would still have competition. But like I said, I was in the minority.

I should not have to remind folks, but I will...
In 2011, when I came to Solo, E Stock was pretty much dead. Other classes may have been as well. Toward the end of 2011, a few of us got together with a plan. Without realizing it at the time, we created E Street before SCCA brought the idea to the fore. We did this because we actually talked to drivers and asked what they liked/disliked about the "SK" indexed class "grouping" and, in particular, why they were not running in their particular class. The answer was that they WOULD run in E Stock if it were not for the R-Comp requirement in order to be competitive. Thus for 2012, was borne E "Street" within Cal Club Solo. Entries as a result started to grow almost immediately and in the course of the season, we had I believe, as many as 9 entries. We had a fun year of close competition.

Now, we have lost souls with no where to go. Some are running Time Only. Some have left the sport. E Stock appears done away with, and an E Street competitor has no chance to compete among equals, and certainly has no chance to "trophy".

SCCA is running the Street classes NOW at the national level. So is the San Diego Region. I have not confirmed such, but I believe San Francisco Region is as well.

No matter that I have recently spent literally thousands of dollars to move from an NA to an NB Miata in keeping with what SCCA has in mind. Just wish I had a stock/street class to race it in without being "grouped", and without leaving my own region to race.

I'm currently having a similar experience with FStreet which is why I like the S1,S2, S3 classes. At any given event there's maybe only 2 or 3 FStreet cars. A bigger indexed class gives me more competition which I enjoy. Last year was great with RTR but I think the consensus was that most didn't like the huge time discrepancies between classes and the class size. I think we had well over 30 cars at most events for RTR. FStreet has a pretty low turn out in general it seems. I'm the only one signed up in San Diego for the National Tour. I know its still a ways away but right now I'm all alone playing with my ball hoping that some one will come play with me

Ed Holley wrote:No matter that I have recently spent literally thousands of dollars to move from an NA to an NB Miata in keeping with what SCCA has in mind. Just wish I had a stock/street class to race it in without being "grouped", and without leaving my own region to race.

We're already three events into this season and NOW you're bringing this up just because you bought a car? Where were you six months ago when we went through all these discussions to set the classes for this season?

As this is a transition year, we looked at the available data and made the decision to go with three indexed classes for the new street classes. If these classes remain popular and continue to increase in size, we'll more than likely go to individual classes next year. Either way, as the old saying goes, you can't please everyone.

Matt Ales wrote:I'm currently having a similar experience with FStreet which is why I like the S1,S2, S3 classes. At any given event there's maybe only 2 or 3 FStreet cars. A bigger indexed class gives me more competition which I enjoy. Last year was great with RTR but I think the consensus was that most didn't like the huge time discrepancies between classes and the class size. I think we had well over 30 cars at most events for RTR. FStreet has a pretty low turn out in general it seems. I'm the only one signed up in San Diego for the National Tour. I know its still a ways away but right now I'm all alone playing with my ball hoping that some one will come play with me

Don't complain, Matt. You have a soft index in S1. I would join you in F-Street, but I don't have the proper equipment to do so.

George Schilling wrote:As this is a transition year, we looked at the available data and made the decision to go with three indexed classes for the new street classes. If these classes remain popular and continue to increase in size, we'll more than likely go to individual classes next year. Either way, as the old saying goes, you can't please everyone.

The relationship between clubs and their members is probably highly variable club to club. As I have nothing to complain about, this is just an example -- I have no idea what GRA discusses and recommends. Understandable because I live way out and have never attended a meeting. Also I've made no attempt to insinuate my opinions, so again, I'm not complaining. But it makes me think if you really want member input perhaps you should poll the specific group of people affected. Maybe that would be anyone with 50% attendance in an affected class for the previous 12 months or something.

It's just a PM and some addressing.

we can only cushion your ego so much, eventually you have to play with the big boys Ed.

Vincent Wong wrote:I would join you in F-Street, but I don't have the proper equipment to do so.

What equipment are you missing... cajones? jk

George Schilling wrote: ... as the old saying goes, you can't please everyone.

... And we chose to not please you.

Point 1: You can't spend your whole racing career running from Jeff Stuart.
Point 2: http://www.forums.solo2.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7528" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; WYSIWYG
Point 3: Maybe you can start an NB Miata class where you all agree to only run 400 TW all seasons. It worked before. }:)

Mark D.

Matt Ales wrote:I'm currently having a similar experience with FStreet which is why I like the S1,S2, S3 classes. At any given event there's maybe only 2 or 3 FStreet cars. A bigger indexed class gives me more competition which I enjoy. Last year was great with RTR but I think the consensus was that most didn't like the huge time discrepancies between classes and the class size. I think we had well over 30 cars at most events for RTR. FStreet has a pretty low turn out in general it seems. I'm the only one signed up in San Diego for the National Tour. I know its still a ways away but right now I'm all alone playing with my ball hoping that some one will come play with me

If anyone else signs up for FS, I'd co-drive your car to help make a class

Marshall Grice wrote:we can only cushion your ego so much, eventually you have to play with the big boys Ed.

No you dittint!

Ed. I have always had my mazdaspeed. Which by most accounts is not a competitive car in any form (although I have yet to see one in fp). That being said I have found that I can compete in several kinds of classes. Bsp, cst and now spc. I still have faith I can make it competitive nationally. Yes it may take years more, but I won't know unless I try. I believe you can make your car a winner too.