Historic class discussion
Moderators: Mike Simanyi, Rick Brown
Re: Historic class discussion
Craig, Thanks for your thoughts. It had occurred to me that someone running an old car with 12 inch wheels might want to do something similar. I know I would have no objections tweaking the proposal to allow that, and I doubt the other competitors would have any objections.
BTW, my CRX runs 13x5 wheels, and 14x5 wheels from other early CRXs and Civics are readily available. Of course 14x5.5 would be even better, but we're not looking for performance advantages here other than better street tire compounds. And it's a lot easier to make or adapt other wheels than it is to make tires! Thanks again, Don
BTW, my CRX runs 13x5 wheels, and 14x5 wheels from other early CRXs and Civics are readily available. Of course 14x5.5 would be even better, but we're not looking for performance advantages here other than better street tire compounds. And it's a lot easier to make or adapt other wheels than it is to make tires! Thanks again, Don
- Jayson Woodruff
- Posts: 1754
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
- Club: PSCC
- Car#: 51
Re: Historic 2 Rules Addendum
There used to be an SCCA stock class allowance that was similar to this for the same reasons you quoted (except they were more concered about R-comp availibility). You might as well blanket it the same way the SCCA did by saying "Cars with less than 14" rims are allowed to use 14" rims of the same width as stock". That'll cover your 12's and odd ball 10's and give the same allowance to those wanting to run R-comps.
Jay W
Jay W
Don Green wrote:Rick,
"For stock class vehicles running stock tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with 13 inch wheels may run 14 inch wheels of the same width and plus/minus ¼ inch offset."
- Craig Naylor
- Posts: 1973
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
- Club: SCNAX
- Car#: 80
- Location: Long Beach
Re: Historic class discussion
Jayson, I was thinking the same thing, but could not reference it in the current rule book. I had to go back to the 2002 rule book to find it. Admittedly I have not kept every yrs rule book, and I "shared" a few for which my book case does not hold, but the verbiage is gone by the 2005 book.
13.4 ...Vehicles originally equipped only with 12 inch diameter wheels, may use 13-inc diameter wheels of the same width as standard and offset within +/- 0.25 inch of standard...
So apparently we've dated ourselves by remembering this old rule. It's interesting it only addressed 12" rims, and not the 10's some mini's had.
Don, I didn't realize there were any 14x5's. I would go with that as a max upgrade then. Again trying to address the tire availability vs. preformance upgrade.
Based upon the old SCCA wording, and your proposal above...
Obviously this would be listed under Historic rules, as it would not apply to "normal" stock classes. That would be a National thing to change, were only addressing a local class.
"For stock class vehicles running street tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5", may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5", which ever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."
13.4 ...Vehicles originally equipped only with 12 inch diameter wheels, may use 13-inc diameter wheels of the same width as standard and offset within +/- 0.25 inch of standard...
So apparently we've dated ourselves by remembering this old rule. It's interesting it only addressed 12" rims, and not the 10's some mini's had.
Don, I didn't realize there were any 14x5's. I would go with that as a max upgrade then. Again trying to address the tire availability vs. preformance upgrade.
Based upon the old SCCA wording, and your proposal above...
Obviously this would be listed under Historic rules, as it would not apply to "normal" stock classes. That would be a National thing to change, were only addressing a local class.
"For stock class vehicles running street tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5", may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5", which ever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."
Re: Historic class discussion
Rules Committee:
Since no one has given any more feedback on this subject in the past few weeks, we (David Barrish and I) move that we go with this final wording for the Historic classes:
"For stock class vehicles running street tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5 inches", may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5 inches, whichever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."
So when can we apply this? This weekend?
Thanks, Don and David
Since no one has given any more feedback on this subject in the past few weeks, we (David Barrish and I) move that we go with this final wording for the Historic classes:
"For stock class vehicles running street tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5 inches", may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5 inches, whichever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."
So when can we apply this? This weekend?
Thanks, Don and David
- Rick Brown
- Current Solo Director
- Posts: 5117
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
- Club: PSCC
- Car#: 240
- Location: Lake Elsinore, CA
Re: Historic class discussion
There is no more Rules Committee, only a person who maintains the Rules. I'll forward to Mike to get it on tomorrow night's meeting agenda.Don Green wrote:Rules Committee:
Since no one has given any more feedback on this subject in the past few weeks, we (David Barrish and I) move that we go with this final wording for the Historic classes:
"For stock class vehicles running street tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5 inches", may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5 inches, whichever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."
So when can we apply this? This weekend?
Thanks, Don and David
Since light is faster than sound...many people look bright until they speak...
- Craig Naylor
- Posts: 1973
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am
- Club: SCNAX
- Car#: 80
- Location: Long Beach
Re: Historic class discussion
Don, I know I wrote the above.... our rule book is so verbose, one of my goals is to reduce the wording, and keep all meanings. I would suggest the following as the final wording with that in mind.Don Green wrote: we (David Barrish and I) move that we go with this final wording for the Historic classes:
"For stock class vehicles running street tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5 inches", may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5 inches, whichever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."
Thanks, Don and David
"For stock class vehicles running "ST/(S)" legal tires: Vehicles originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5 inches, may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5 inches, whichever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."
This way it is ties to what ever is legal in ST / STS, so we don't have to alter this rule if changes happen in the future as to what defines "street tire" legal tread-wear.
- Robert Puertas
- Posts: 1093
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
- Club: PSCC
- Car#: 44
Re: Historic class discussion
Using the wording "ST/(S)" seems to imply they must meet the tire size limitations of those classes. Was that the intention? Or are you just wanting to capture the tread wear rating and the exclusion list?
- John Fendel
- Posts: 486
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
- Club: CASOC
- Car#: 23
- Location: Lake Forest, CA
Re: Historic class discussion
It is probably a good itea to keep the written rule as general as possible. As a reference point, I went out the the NMRA drags a week or so ago to see what they were putting on. Along with the drag racing, car show and vendor displays, they also had their own version of an autocross. Lots of old and new American muscle cars were running it. They use a minimum 180 tread wear index. It makes it easy for them to come compete with us, but not so convenient for us to run with them.This way it is ties to what ever is legal in ST / STS, so we don't have to alter this rule if changes happen in the future as to what defines "street tire" legal tread-wear.
Last edited by John Fendel on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
#ALSaware, GRC Performance, Red Line Oil
Re: Historic class discussion
Don, David and others -Don Green wrote:Rules Committee:
Since no one has given any more feedback on this subject in the past few weeks, we (David Barrish and I) move that we go with this final wording for the Historic classes:
"For stock class vehicles running street tires (140 tread-wear rating or above): Vehicles that were originally equipped with wheels smaller than 14x5 inches", may upgrade to no more than 14x (original width or 5 inches, whichever is greater) wheels +/- ¼ inch offset of original."
So when can we apply this? This weekend?
Thanks, Don and David
The rule as written above passed last night. It will go into effect January 2012.
- Art Rinner
- Posts: 487
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
- Car#: 83
- Location: Watching over everything
- Contact:
Re: Historic class discussion
If I read this right I will be able to drive my 75 280Z in Historic with an STR Index?
You may get a bunch of Z's now.
You may get a bunch of Z's now.
Art Rinner
#83 240ZT
#83 240ZT
- Sebastian Rios
- King of Fastrack!
- Posts: 1656
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:27 am
- Club: SCNAX
- Car#: 397
- Location: Out to lunch
Re: Historic class discussion
I don't thinks so Art, besides the proposed wheel allowance, the cars would have to be otherwise stock legal.
- Art Rinner
- Posts: 487
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
- Car#: 83
- Location: Watching over everything
- Contact:
Re: Historic class discussion
Historic 2 is only for stock cars?Sebastian Rios wrote:I don't thinks so Art, besides the proposed wheel allowance, the cars would have to be otherwise stock legal.
Art Rinner
#83 240ZT
#83 240ZT
-
- Posts: 551
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
- Club: PSCC
- Car#: 58
- Location: Lake Arrowhead
Re: Historic class discussion
No, the change is for cars running in the "stock class" that need to move up to 14 inch rims.
Please, bring out the Z's.
Ken, Thank you for your help moving this thru the system.
David
Please, bring out the Z's.
Ken, Thank you for your help moving this thru the system.
David
-
- Posts: 551
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
- Club: PSCC
- Car#: 58
- Location: Lake Arrowhead
Re: Historic class discussion
This thread has been "viewed", now over 13,000 times. Who is mining this thing.