Pls advice - got pulled over and now need to go to a referee

[Christos Adam]

Hey guys

After a long exhausting weekend at the garage in Glendora - installing a kevlar front end, a duckbill trunk lid, changing all the suspension bushings and the installing KONI 3012 (at the front - no time for the rear yet)... I decided to drive to IN&OUT for a milkshake before hitting the road to go back home.
It was Monday (I took the day off) night at 11:30 and I didn't even had the chance to drive for 1 mile until I got pulled over.
At first one police car and then another one and then a helicopter came above us and the whole scene seemed like the big dealer arrests that we see on TV. Meanwhile I was out of the car with my hands behind my back and my legs open being searched for weapons of mass destruction .

My friend (Bill Wilner) who was driving in front of me was watching the scene from his car and he couldn't believe what was going on and on for half an hour .

Just FYI the reason I got pulled over was the lack of third brake light .
I know in California you are required to have only two brake lights but apparently all the cars manufactured from 1984 and beyond need to have a third light .

Of course they asked me to pop my hood, I told them that the car has an aftermarket CARB approved turbo but I didn't have the sticker on the car since it was on my old stock hood.
So they were, really? Anything else modified other than the CARB approved turbo? I was like no everything else stock .

So I'm showing them the engine bay in which
1) The charcoal canister is missing
2) The EGR is not there any more
3) A breather filter is installed on a catch can.
4) A non recirculating BOV is installed
5) Silicon hoses are installed
6) A big ass custom welded intake manifold is installed
and I have three police officers looking with their flash lights on and the chopper hoovering around... and what did they say?
YOU HAVE AFTERMARKET INJECTORS!!!
I'M SURE THIS FUEL RAIL IS NOT STOCK!

Out of all the obvious things, which were screaming not CARB legal they noticed the least noticeable...
Of course I told them that it wasn't obviously stock but it was coming as part of the kit...but I didn't have carb sticker for the kit to start with...

Anyway so they wrote a fix it ticket (for the lack of brake light) and they sent me to a referee due to the lack of carb sticker...

So what's next?
Am I totally screwed?
Putting the car back to normal would be insane amount of work...












This last pic is a little bit after I got pulled over...

[Michael Smith]

Sorry about that. But a helicoptor? That's pretty cool!
Anyway, you need to get the engine back to stock for the referee. I had to for my turbo civic. The cop was going to give me a ticket for a rolling stop sign and speeding but got around to my engine and gave me the choice of moving violations or referee! Which was odd.
The referee does a visual of everything as well as several sniffer tests.
They don't check the block serial unless ur going to cert a swap. Heck, he didn't even check the engine code! Cx motor in a dx and it worked great. I even had 2 cats on. The cx and dx!
You can only fail once, which I did. (spark plugs, and pulley were not cx)
before I went the second time I took it to a smog station and had it tested!

It took a lot of work. Good luck!

[Michael Smith]

For the third brake light, you can get a $5 light at hf and put it in front of the rear glass.

[Steve Ekstrand]

I'd get a legal used stock motor to swap in. I used to swap in the stock 230hp motor for smog checks then pop back in the fun 450hp motor for the next 23 months. Allegedly.

Pain in the ass. But I found it was cheaper and easier to have a $300-500 stocker sitting around for such occasions (or when you blow up the fun motor) than trying to convert something back.

[Kurt Rahn]

I don't know if it's possible since you already got the violation, or practical (is it your daily driver?), but you might check into whether you can register the car as non-operational at this point. It's be a lot cheaper and less of a pain. Downside is you couldn't street drive it anymore.

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

So what's next?
Am I totally screwed?
Putting the car back to normal would be insane amount of work...

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[Webster Jessup]

I don't think you are required to have a third brake light. I believe it simply states that IF you have a third brakelight (ie supplemental) then you are required to conform to the Federal standard. So, if that's true, the whole stop was illegal.

Besides that, don't ever pop your hood for the police. Politely say, you don't consent to searches. If they are going to pop your hood, make them do it.


Here is the VC section that deals with stoplamps:

24603. Every motor vehicle which is not in combination with any other vehicle and every vehicle at the end of a combination of vehicles shall at all times be equipped with stoplamps mounted on the rear as follows:

(a) Every such vehicle shall be equipped with one or more stoplamps.

(b) Every such vehicle, other than a motorcycle, manufactured and first registered on or after January 1, 1958, shall be equipped with two stoplamps, except that trailers and semitrailers manufactured after July 23, 1973, which are less than 30 inches wide, may be equipped with one stoplamp which shall be mounted at or near the vertical centerline of the trailer. If such vehicle is equipped with two stoplamps, they shall be mounted as specified in subdivision (d).

(c) Except as provided in subdivision (h), stoplamps on vehicles manufactured on or after January 1, 1969, shall be mounted not lower than 15 inches nor higher than 72 inches, except that a tow truck, in addition to being equipped with the required stoplamps, may also be equipped with two stoplamps which may be mounted not lower than 15 inches nor higher than the maximum allowable vehicle height and as far forward as the rearmost portion of the driver's seat in the rearmost position.

(d) Where two stoplamps are required, at least one shall be mounted at the left and one at the right side, respectively, at the same level.

(e) Stoplamps on vehicles manufactured on or after January 1, 1979, shall emit a red light. Stoplamps on vehicles manufactured before January 1, 1979, shall emit a red or yellow light. All stoplamps shall be plainly visible and understandable from a distance of 300 feet to the rear both during normal sunlight and at nighttime, except that stoplamps on a vehicle of a size required to be equipped with clearance lamps shall be visible from a distance of 500 feet during such times.

(f) Stoplamps shall be activated upon application of the service (foot) brake and the hand control head for air, vacuum, or electric brakes. In addition, all stoplamps may be activated by a mechanical device designed to function only upon sudden release of the accelerator while the vehicle is in motion. Stoplamps on vehicles equipped with a manual transmission may be manually activated by a mechanical device when the vehicle is downshifted if the device is automatically rendered inoperative while the vehicle is accelerating.

(g) Any vehicle may be equipped with supplemental stoplamps mounted to the rear of the rearmost portion of the driver's seat in its rearmost position in addition to the lamps required to be mounted on the rear of the vehicle. Supplemental stoplamps installed after January 1, 1979, shall be red in color and mounted not lower than 15 inches above the roadway. The supplemental stoplamp on that side of a vehicle toward which a turn will be made may flash as part of the supplemental turn signal lamp.

A supplemental stoplamp may be mounted inside the rear window of a vehicle, if it is mounted at the centerline of the vehicle and is constructed and mounted so as to prevent any light, other than a monitorial indicator emitted from the device, either direct or reflected, from being visible to the driver.

(h) Any supplemental stoplamp installed after January 1, 1987, shall comply with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108 (49 C.F.R. 571.108). Any vehicle equipped with a stoplamp which complies with the federal motor vehicle safety standards applicable to that make and model vehicle shall conform to that applicable safety standard unless modified to comply with the federal motor vehicle safety standard designated in this subdivision.

[John Coffey]

I think Jason's suggestion is best. The car is no longer a street legal car and is now a full-on race car. Admit that to yourself and life gets so much easier.

[Mako Koiwai]

Marcus spent an hour over dinner going over these issues and how's he's dealt with them ... I'll see if I can get him to chime in.

+1 on the Trailer ... Chad Stubblefield is selling his ... search our Classifieds

[Christos Adam]

Thank you so much for your comments guys.
I really want to keep the car on the street... so pictures of trailers are breaking my heart

Webster - Thanks I think you are right - I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled me over because they didn't know what the law really says in regards to brake lights... the bottom line though is that if they stop you it's already too late. If I wasn't poping the hood they could say that they noticed the IC at the front so they could guess that it has illegal modifications and impound the car - or send me to a referee. Anyway, I'll install a third brake light to avoid future harassment.

Steve Thanks for the idea, I might actually do that...

MaKo, thanks please let me know if Marcus has any better idea...

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled me over because they didn't know what the law really says in regards to brake lights.

Yeah, no way they spotted the stickers, flares, rice, etc, it had to be the brake light.

[Michael Smith]

You will be fine if you have Greddy carb stickers for the kit and intercooler. So get some or print some for future use.
The other stuff can be covered with engine plastic (modded from another car). If you can't cover everything, what is there to change?

• the breather from the catch can? You can run a hose back to the intake inlet after the track.

• bov..hmm. can move to piping behind bumper. or run a different style like the greddy s/r to route a hose back to intake inlet.

[Christos Adam]

You will be fine if you have Greddy carb stickers for the kit and intercooler. So get some or print some for future use.
The other stuff can be covered with engine plastic (modded from another car). If you can't cover everything, what is there to change?

• the breather from the catch can? You can run a hose back to the intake inlet after the track.

• bov..hmm. can move to piping behind bumper. or run a different style like the greddy s/r to route a hose back to intake inlet.

These are all good points Michael!
Any idea where how to get the carb stickers?

[Christos Adam]

Something else that I heard was

This will be the cheapest and most permanent route. You dont actually need to "give" or transfer a title at all.

1.) Just visit a friend or relative in another state (you dont have a ex ex ex ex girlfriend in Vegas).

2.) Transfer your records at the DOL in that state. You will only need an address that is located in that state.

3.) If they do have emissions then go through and pass emissions. Then get your plate.

4.) Throw your plate on your car. Whenever new tab information comes you will get it at the address in the other state.

5.) When you need new tabs, you dont need to drive to the other state. There is a state issued form that you must fill out and get it notarized while in California at a bank or post office. (They only need to see your ID and like $5.).

6.) Send in the form and have the tabs sent to you in California.

7.) Cop in Cali pulls you over say you are visiting or you are going to school in cali. Easy as that. You dont even have to say what you are doing in Cali, just say you are here for some time.

Has anyone ever done that? :ibrightdea:

[Marshall Grice]

You will be fine if you have Greddy carb stickers for the kit and intercooler. So get some or print some for future use.
The other stuff can be covered with engine plastic (modded from another car). If you can't cover everything, what is there to change?

• the breather from the catch can? You can run a hose back to the intake inlet after the track.

• bov..hmm. can move to piping behind bumper. or run a different style like the greddy s/r to route a hose back to intake inlet.

if you think you can cover and hide stuff from the ref station, good luck. not all of them are idiots, you might have to go get tested a bunch of times before you sneak through.


PNO and a trailer is your best bet. If you think you won't get pulled over again with that car you are sadly mistaken. I'd put the over under at about 50 miles, depending on the neighborhood.

if you want a fast street car...go buy one.

[Michael Smith]

Here are EO docs and CARB#s for Miata turbo kits.
1990-1993

• GReddy Kit. D-397

• Bell Engineering Group, Inc. D-349

• Brodie Brittain Racing D-285

1994-1999

• Bell Engineering Group, Inc. D-349-1

[Michael Smith]

if you think you can cover and hide stuff from the ref station, good luck. not all of them are idiots, you might have to go get tested a bunch of times before you sneak through.

For the ref you cannot cover and hide stuff. They are thorough and the engine needs to be stock.
For police officers looking under the hood. Yes.
They cannot rip apart or dismantle you car. If you have visible carb stickers, they can only check if they are valid numbers.

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

Something else that I heard was

This will be the cheapest and most permanent route. You dont actually need to "give" or transfer a title at all.

1.) Just visit a friend or relative in another state (you dont have a ex ex ex ex girlfriend in Vegas).

2.) Transfer your records at the DOL in that state. You will only need an address that is located in that state.

3.) If they do have emissions then go through and pass emissions. Then get your plate.

4.) Throw your plate on your car. Whenever new tab information comes you will get it at the address in the other state.

5.) When you need new tabs, you dont need to drive to the other state. There is a state issued form that you must fill out and get it notarized while in California at a bank or post office. (They only need to see your ID and like $5.).

6.) Send in the form and have the tabs sent to you in California.

7.) Cop in Cali pulls you over say you are visiting or you are going to school in cali. Easy as that. You dont even have to say what you are doing in Cali, just say you are here for some time.

Has anyone ever done that? :ibrightdea:

The problem is insurance. I managed to wait a few years before changing my cars over from AZ to CA. Never had an issue getting my AZ tags, and never had to go back for smog - got the I am out of the state and cant get it done pass - but eventually we got the notice our ins was going to be canceled for not having valid CA registration.

Sure you could license and insure your car in the other state, this will also likely require a drivers licenses from that state. But in the long run is all the time, money and effort worth it? Two words... Trailer Queen.

[Marcus Russell]

Since you got pulled over for an apparent lack of a brake light, any questions about your engine, exhaust or suspension should have been ignored since they are not pertinent to the reason you were stopped (fishing is not allowed and the law is very clear on this). If they suspected you had a modified vehicle that should have been the guise under which they stopped, approached and questioned you. The officers have no jurisdiction over your car's set-up (or apparent set-up) during a routine moving violation traffic stop...at a minimum it would have been a violation of the 4th amendment (prevention of illegal search and seizure).

...but you consented to the search, making all the findings of the search admissible in a court of law.

with the revelations on the gray area for the cyclops brake light it might be possible to have the search tossed out in its entirety (assuming you have a good attorney and the judge is willing to hear the argument), but you did consent to the search so that's a tough argument to make in the past-tense...and that is going to be a very costly route (way more than paying a fine and restoring the car to stock) and you've already been tagged as an offender (they most likely consider you a street racer - which is why the helicopter was involved, you were probably under surveillance for a while) and the police agency in question will probably lay in wait for you, light you up for exhibition of speed (accidental wheels spin, revving just a few rpm's to high when you shift) to cite you, tow you and then conduct a legal search of your vehicle a matter of days after you beat these charges.

I know it sucks man, but I'd take the lumps and move on.

[Michael Smith]

You get the idea.

[Michael Smith]

Here you go:
1992 Mazda miata running good engine - $250 (upland ca)

[Marshall Grice]

Something else that I heard was

This will be the cheapest and most permanent route. You dont actually need to "give" or transfer a title at all.

1.) Just visit a friend or relative in another state (you dont have a ex ex ex ex girlfriend in Vegas).

2.) Transfer your records at the DOL in that state. You will only need an address that is located in that state.

3.) If they do have emissions then go through and pass emissions. Then get your plate.

4.) Throw your plate on your car. Whenever new tab information comes you will get it at the address in the other state.

5.) When you need new tabs, you dont need to drive to the other state. There is a state issued form that you must fill out and get it notarized while in California at a bank or post office. (They only need to see your ID and like $5.).

6.) Send in the form and have the tabs sent to you in California.

7.) Cop in Cali pulls you over say you are visiting or you are going to school in cali. Easy as that. You dont even have to say what you are doing in Cali, just say you are here for some time.

Has anyone ever done that? :ibrightdea:

if they look up your name in their computer and find that you are a CA resident, it is a misdemeanor to have your car registered out of state. They will impound your car immediately.

[Christos Adam]

Thank you guys!

Marcus: They pulled me over after driving for 1/2 mile from the garage in Glendora.
I wasn't speeding at all!
The car has a very quiet exhaust!
I didn't get intimidated by them but from previous experience it seems that whenever I'm questioning the cops, they get pissed off and then I'm in worse trouble.
For example the police officer was already looking in the engine bay through the vented hood and even if I wasn't co-operating with him he could say that he saw that the car was modified.

[Christos Adam]

Is the following statement correct?
Many people say that you can just pay $471 and get over it... I can't believe that it can be that simple }:)

There's nothing saying because you got a ref ticket that requires you to go to the ref. In your case (like my car), the reason being is that the mods are too costly and not [economically] feasible and reversible to get it to pass inspection. Since there's nothing in the California VC that says you are not required to go get your car inspected (only "suggested" to clear yourself of the charge), you have two options. Plead guilty and pay the fine OR fight the case and hope you win with something in your defense. Even if you lose, at least you gave it a chance and it's the same fine and consequence either way. After that, the case is closed after the fine is paid off or you are cleared of your charges.

If you must know of the aftermath of my case, despite me losing my case, I was able to register my car 6 months later with no problem, no "Gross Poluter" tag on my registration forms or anything. The state just simply wants your money and if you paid it, the case is closed. Plain and simple.

However, I don't know what will happen if you get pulled over again for the same thing. I doubt heavily that impoundment of your car is the consequence the next time around. I keep hearing that the fine is just simply higher the next time.

[Tom Denham]

Yeah until the Same cop see's you driving around and writes you another ticket.