Cal Club Autocross Forums

Dan Shaw wrote:I do think it would be interesting...kinda wondering what to do if I run the pro. Sounds like I'll be co driving something if I can pick up a ride or see if someone has some r comps laying around I can thrash for an event. In either case, I'd like to run and be competitive but slicks aren't cheap and I have a particular issue with transporting them. Can't drive on em and can't put them in the trunk.

Last year, they allowed the SK classes to compete at both the SD tour and El Toro ProSolo, since they're classes in both regions. Haven't heard yet for sure whether they're going to let us do that again, but you could be fine driving your existing SK car.

Kurt Rahn wrote:

Jonathan Lugod wrote:It'll lead to having the best car of the whole class as Aaron has stated. So you'll have two more spec "Stock" classes but on street tires.

Here's the reason that won't happen: as opposed to other classes, the PAX for each class changes each year, so while a Mini Cooper S may be the "it" car one year, the next it's mid-pack after taking it in the pants on PAX. SK is the only place (nationally) where PAX would actually matter across classes.

Jonathan Lugod wrote:Not only that but then we would have to rely on some kind of Index for all the individual classes. I'm sure it goes a lot deeper than this.

What's the problem with the way we do it: use the stock class PAX, then apply a single universal SK index afterwards? Doesn't seem all that complicated to me.

Jonathan Lugod wrote:There is already a thread in the SD forum talking about SK1/2 PAX and how some feel is too harsh.

I haven't read the thread, but it seems to me that's a local issue. Whatever additional index a region wants to assign to street tired stock classes is up to the region. If they don't like it, they can change it. In a national event, the SK PAX is irrelevant to anyone except the SK classes. Also, keep in mind that this is the same region that felt so threatened by the FJs they wouldn't let them run until this year.

Jonathan Lugod wrote:Typically most of those who participate in SK1/2 are underprepared and are not in the search for maximizing their car's potential in regards to setup.

So the cars that aren't fully prepped get spanked. Different from other classes how? I agree that the local SK classes are entry-level classes in general, but the top tier of SK in CalClub are pretty good drivers. At a national event, I think in most cases you'd see the same level of prep and caliber of driver as any other class. BTW, what's wrong with entry level? Everyone was a noob at some point.

Jonathan Lugod wrote:It is indeed a good way to boost participation, but i also see SK1/2 as a way of building the drivers skill through competition of their peers to ENCOURAGE moving up to STOCK class. Be it... PAX for street tired stock cars, then moving up to their designated stock class on R comps.

Given the cost of R comps and how quickly Minis go thru them, I'm personally very unlikely to go to the stock classes. More likely to do what I'm doing and co-drive something else. So where do these improved drivers go once they're good enough to compete nationally if they don't have the means to fork out that kind of money, but still want to be challenged? I can think of a lot of people who don't have the means to buy 2-3 sets of r-comps at $1200-2000 a pop, but are still really good drivers. More importantly, how would a national SK class have an adverse impact on you personally? Is it something that would have a direct negative impact, or is it just something that annoys you? Remember that as an ST(S) driver, before your class was recognized nationally (and still today, even) people opposed it. If their opposition held up, what would you be driving?

Kurt I Want you to argue for the SK classes anytime the discussion comes up.

Jonathan Lugod wrote:
"Typically most of those who participate in SK1/2 are underprepared and are not in the search for maximizing their car's potential in regards to setup."

Im prepping my car for stock class. I have prepped for STX and ASP. This has been the most challenging and I wont have R's to hide my set up flaws.

they are running the SK classes in the tour and the Pro.
Hopefully we can get the large number of local SK people to attend
thanks Kurt.

Is it possible to get an early refund on my registration to Sundays event?

Kurt Rahn wrote:

Jonathan Lugod wrote:Typically most of those who participate in SK1/2 are underprepared and are not in the search for maximizing their car's potential in regards to setup.

So the cars that aren't fully prepped get spanked. Different from other classes how? I agree that the local SK classes are entry-level classes in general, but the top tier of SK in CalClub are pretty good drivers. At a national event, I think in most cases you'd see the same level of prep and caliber of driver as any other class. BTW, what's wrong with entry level? Everyone was a noob at some point.

Jonathan Lugod wrote:It is indeed a good way to boost participation, but i also see SK1/2 as a way of building the drivers skill through competition of their peers to ENCOURAGE moving up to STOCK class. Be it... PAX for street tired stock cars, then moving up to their designated stock class on R comps.

Given the cost of R comps and how quickly Minis go thru them, I'm personally very unlikely to go to the stock classes. More likely to do what I'm doing and co-drive something else. So where do these improved drivers go once they're good enough to compete nationally if they don't have the means to fork out that kind of money, but still want to be challenged? I can think of a lot of people who don't have the means to buy 2-3 sets of r-comps at $1200-2000 a pop, but are still really good drivers. More importantly, how would a national SK class have an adverse impact on you personally? Is it something that would have a direct negative impact, or is it just something that annoys you? Remember that as an ST(S) driver, before your class was recognized nationally (and still today, even) people opposed it. If their opposition held up, what would you be driving?

Well for one, the pax's and classes are made based on how the cars do on R-compound tires. As it is right now the high horsepower cars are getting pretty screwed since they need the R-comps to work well. So a full new set of indexs would need to be made. Now that means it would probably be Howard making the paxs like he does for the Pros, run a national level pax class like Bump or Race at the Pros and you find out that Paxs can't be made to be fair for all courses even if they are fair in theory. Also means you'd get national drivers and fully prepped cars with multi-thousand dollar shocks and every year we see at least one local class blow up because someone runs a nationally prepped car in one of the local open classes. I'm just sayin that if SK became a national level class it would stop being a big class as 80% of the drivers moved to where they can compete, the result will not be what you want.

If an inexpensive national class is what you want, F125 is about as cheap as it gets. ST is pretty cheap too.

I ran SK1 at the tour in SD last year. I had high hopes. Only 2 of us showed up. And they put us in totally separate run groups. Then they fixed that. Then they disqualified me just before my last run because tech gave me the wrong size windshield banner. I won't be doing that again.

Chad and Kurt, thanks for the heads up about sk and the pro. Looks like ill be coming on street rubber and hoping for the best!!

The waters have receded, the course is being rebuilt, and the event will be held.

The rain dances didn't work... Hopefully they were good exercise. All I could find for native dress was a 12yo's Pocahontas costume, maybe that was the problem.

I'd suggest afternoon people come earlier than normal. Who knows what the schedule is going to look like, its certainly not a normal weekend.

whoa... scary image.....



anyways...915am any updates? 1st run group go out?

Jason Flores wrote:

anyways...915am any updates? 1st run group go out?

first car is coming to the line right now.

awesome...thanks from all the afternoon run group peoples..see everyone in a little bit!!!'


applause to the people who are making today happen...although yesterday/last night into this morning was no to shabby...hope all my GyuKaku friends made it to the track ok this morning...=)

Just got home, had to extend thank yous to all of those who helped to set the course up and get us running so quickly this morning!! The course flowed very well and it was at a good speed. Given what you guys had to work around it was an awesome thing to acually run on a near full sized course. Bravo!!

Great event!

Yes, very fun course!! Lots of technical parts where you could go fast or really lose it fast....

Terrific job by all involved to put on a great event, especially with all the weather issues.

Thanks

Tom Tanquary wrote:I ran SK1 at the tour in SD last year. I had high hopes. Only 2 of us showed up. And they put us in totally separate run groups. Then they fixed that. Then they disqualified me just before my last run because tech gave me the wrong size windshield banner. I won't be doing that again.

Dont let a sticker stop you from running SK1.
Im really happy with the Dunlops.
Hoosiers just dont make sense for me.

I didn't get a chance to drive it, but I walked it with the kidlets and announced the last group. Looked like a ton of fun. Congrats on pulling off a good event. I loved the option to take to slalom into the mud!!!

Jason Flores wrote:awesome...thanks from all the afternoon run group peoples..see everyone in a little bit!!!'


applause to the people who are making today happen...although yesterday/last night into this morning was no to shabby...hope all my GyuKaku friends made it to the track ok this morning...=)

we all did hahhaaa


big to those who put on the event despite mother nature having other plans

Loved the course ... and the Finish ... simple, fast and completely safe. Nice Job Eric ... and thanks to the Friday Set-Up crew that had to work in the rain.

Best course we've had in a long time with a great mix of slaloms and sweepers. Nice to run a more "autocross"-type course vs. a purely mini-road course. Love all the transition elements including the offset cone in that one slalom.

Thanks to Ken Lord for letting me drive his MX-5 in CSP. I think I forgot to breathe the whole run! I was threatening to drive straight to the local Mazda dealer after our runs!

Steve Ekstrand wrote:The rain dances didn't work

Oops, I was doing the drain dance. I guess we cancelled out. ;)

All checks have been destroyed. Thanks for entering.

George Schilling wrote:All checks have been destroyed. Thanks for entering.

?? For the feb practice or the champ?

Practice ... sort of obvious? ;) The Free on Sunday was just the Fun Runs ... which aren't really free when you're running R tires.

Aaron Goldsmith wrote:Well for one, the pax's and classes are made based on how the cars do on R-compound tires. As it is right now the high horsepower cars are getting pretty screwed since they need the R-comps to work well.

I'd need to see some definitive longitudinal data to concede that point.

Aaron Goldsmith wrote:Paxs can't be made to be fair for all courses even if they are fair in theory.

So how is that different from any other class in autocross? That's a constant and doesn't have any bearing on this discussion.

Aaron Goldsmith wrote:Also means you'd get national drivers and fully prepped cars with multi-thousand dollar shocks and every year we see at least one local class blow up because someone runs a nationally prepped car in one of the local open classes. I'm just sayin that if SK became a national level class it would stop being a big class as 80% of the drivers moved to where they can compete, the result will not be what you want.

There's noplace for SK drivers to go. Everyplace else costs a lot more money, and/or has national-level drivers, so they'd have to pay out the nose to get their car to the point where they could compete, only to get their ass handed to them by one of the excellent drivers in the class they chose. This is the point I'm making. There are no soft classes, at least in our region. And if there are, you can bet that one or two good drivers will notice and move there. If you don't have the money to prep your car for the stock classes, are you just supposed to hang 'em up and find another obsession? What difference does it matter whether you get smoked in ST or in an SK class?

Also, I think you're not giving credit to a lot of the local drivers. We have some talent in SK1 and SK2. If you don't think so, I'll lend you my car for the next event and you can see whether you destroy everyone, or whether it's a little more difficult than you might think. If those drivers needed to fully prep their cars to national levels to compete with one or two other folks who start kicking their butts, I'm sure they'd be much happier spending $4000 for an SK car than $8000+ on an ST car, where they'd then have to run against Ken Motonishi and all the other hotshoes in that class.

Aaron Goldsmith wrote:If an inexpensive national class is what you want, F125 is about as cheap as it gets. ST is pretty cheap too.

There are logistical issues with a kart, since you can't just hop in and drive it to the event. You have to look at the other costs and hassles involved in getting it where it needs to go. In addition, since a kart weighs about as much as a set of big-boy car tires, unless you're under 150 pounds, you have no hope of being competitive. You or I could have all the skills of Ayrton Senna, and neither of us could beat our local field. ST is nothing approximating cheap, unless you're comparing it to the cost of running competitively in FP or SM. If people had problems prepping their cars to compete against nationally prepped SK cars, they'd have a coronary if they saw the bill for prepping a competitive ST car. I know, because I seriously considered prepping a CRX for STS. SK is attractice because even fully prepped, you can still use it as your daily driver.

Kurt Rahn wrote:SK is attractice because even fully prepped, you can still use it as your daily driver.