Cal Club Autocross Forums

Mako Koiwai wrote:With studs and ice ... more pressure.

Same with skiing, when you're racing on ice, you can only be on your edges. If you're on a flat ski, you will be sliding all over the place. It's very cool to be able to ski on real ice, just going from steel edge to edge. Being on edge of COURSE gives more directional stability ... also.

That's separate from tire width. Gravel rally tires aren't all that wide either.

We need Citroen Duallies.

If I recall correctly, Team Union Jack Subaru ran its dry settings and tire pressures at the very wet Pro Finale. In the Friday morning practice debacle, Aaron was so fast, we figured that the car was capable of winning and we didn't mess with it. It seemed our competitors were farting around with their setups, whilst we just concentrated on driving.

This "driving" thing. I'm confused. What is driving?

I just hold on and try to keep it roughly between the cones.... Is there something more?

Curt Luther wrote:

Mako Koiwai wrote: Basically keep everything soft, including your inputs.

Hehe. Soft inputs...

Nobody said it was easy...

Steve Ekstrand wrote:This "driving" thing. I'm confused. What is driving?

I just hold on and try to keep it roughly between the cones.... Is there something more?

Nope, that's pretty much it. Just do that while trying to keep your right foot on the floor and turning the wheel as little as possible and you'll win a national championship.

Hey Taylor, I notice you pre-registered, but have no car number. You apparently don't have a points card so what you can do on the AXWare site is choose a 600 series number (you'd be the first so chose 600). Just go to your Garage and edit the entry their to get a number. Paper numbers will be issued to you at registration.

Aaron Goldsmith wrote: Nope, that's pretty much it. Just do that while trying to keep your right foot on the floor and turning the wheel as little as possible and you'll win a national championship.

Funny, Aaron comes in after one run and declares, "Don't turn the wheel"!! I made a real effort to not turn it from then on as you could really feel the level bite decrease as soon as you turned the wheel a little to much.

Aaron, as it turned out, was a genius in the wet. It was only he and Annie helping me that enabled me to figure it out over all those North East Evos!! Nothing like winning with Isley commentating - he sounded genuinely shocked

<shrug>

I just use the force. ;)

I try to follow the Doganis Method: If you're not on the ragged edge in the corners, you're not going fast enough. So far, this hasn't worked out as well for me as it has for George.

It was interesting watching George drive while listening to the commentary of one of his co-workers. The two co-workers are very smooth while George "saws" away ... all three are such elite multi champs, shows that there is more then one way to get the job done.

George is aggressive and yet I've seen him not brake where everyone else did.

Jason Flores wrote:

Mako Koiwai wrote:Marshall vs Annie Bauer ... now who actually has a LOT of rain racing experience! ;) Annie says half of their events are in the wet.

We also have this guy Yeoh that might be able to help answer too!!!

Yeoh!!where are you...

Raising arm for role call - here! In my experience, if I tell, I'll have to kill next










Well, let me start out by saying that I'm no setup guru and there are plenty of folks out there who are faster than I am in the wet.

That being said, back in the day when I was on R-comps, we ran the same settings (pressure, shocks), dry or wet. Keep in mind that this was in a car that had NO camber (stock class). We'd stay on R-comps unless there was more standing water than damp spots. Let's put it another way, in 6 years, I only switched from R-comps to street tires ONCE.

No real experience in the Civic yet. I think I only have something like 2 events in the wet so far in this car. I'm leaning towards no change either. YMMV

Stephen Yeoh wrote: That being said, back in the day when I was on R-comps, we ran the same settings (pressure, shocks), dry or wet. Keep in mind that this was in a car that had NO camber (stock class). We'd stay on R-comps unless there was more standing water than damp spots. Let's put it another way, in 6 years, I only switched from R-comps to street tires ONCE.

Hoosier dudes say, if the ground is no longer shiny and has a matte finish then the R's will be faster than the wets, just drive'm like you're on cold tires.. cuz you are.

Marshall Grice wrote:
even so, lower pressures makes your tires run cooler. So in damp conditions you have no desire to decrease tire temps so I would run higher pressures to get as much heat in the tire as possible.

Marshall, you're almost always right, but are you sure about this??? I suppose you could argue what the major heat influence is in the rain, but I would have to disagree.....

And, FWIW, pressures in the rain has everything to do with how much standing water there is... And you'd be surprised how fast R tires are in wet conditions. (this is a general statement, not directed at Marshall)

If the rubber flexes more under lower pressures, won't it heat more?

Hmmm, as I remember, Fiat's run pretty well in wet conditions. Mind you, it's been nearly 30 years since I drove the Abarth @ Willow in the rain.

Never mind the tyres, don't forget to bring your rain gear. SCCA was kind enough to giver everyone a ran poncho when we went to Topeka, mine is now in my tool bag.

John...

okay, okay, okay, fine, enough people sent me this thread so I'll chime in

I've been autoxing for 10 years, and all but this summer in the great pacific northWET where usually greater than 50% (I'd say closer to 75%) of our events have at least part of the day wet

Most of my experience is in stock class cars, where adjustments are limited. And mostly on Kumho tires (victos, ecstas, 710's)

In almost every car I've ran, the damp setup (on r-compounds) was similar, the car felt more stable and more predictable with slightly lower pressures (maybe 4 or so PSI lower, not a lot). I can say I'm not alone up here in the great white north, most of us have the same opinion. I know, I can read what y'all have quoted from tirerack or whatever, I'm just telling you the real life experiences from those of us who regularly deal with the rain. And we'd typically soften the shocks.

In heavy rain, you'd better have rain tires of some sort, and we would typically run Hoosier wets at lower pressures than the dry tires, too...

YMMV, but that's what us flooded out folks deal with! :gpower:

Rain ?? I'm good with rain for next sunday !!!!!

Steve Ekstrand wrote:You mean like when I ran the ProFinale on shaved tires???

No, more like everytime you open the door to your race car...

Tom Berry wrote:Rain ?? I'm good with rain for next sunday !!!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you: The 2008 Overall and PAX Class champion!

Don't give in yet Bill....

Marshall could always break the car.

Why do think I run the ProFinale each year.
6 cars could always break, be DSQ'd, or red light all their runs.

Annie Bauer wrote:okay, okay, okay, fine, enough people sent me this thread so I'll chime in

I've been autoxing for 10 years, and all but this summer in the great pacific northWET where usually greater than 50% (I'd say closer to 75%) of our events have at least part of the day wet

Most of my experience is in stock class cars, where adjustments are limited. And mostly on Kumho tires (victos, ecstas, 710's)

In almost every car I've ran, the damp setup (on r-compounds) was similar, the car felt more stable and more predictable with slightly lower pressures (maybe 4 or so PSI lower, not a lot). I can say I'm not alone up here in the great white north, most of us have the same opinion. I know, I can read what y'all have quoted from tirerack or whatever, I'm just telling you the real life experiences from those of us who regularly deal with the rain. And we'd typically soften the shocks.

In heavy rain, you'd better have rain tires of some sort, and we would typically run Hoosier wets at lower pressures than the dry tires, too...

YMMV, but that's what us flooded out folks deal with! :gpower:

it is very important to seperate "feel" from "performance". Lower pressures increase the yaw damping and thus make the car feel more stable, but at the same time you're decreasing the ultimate performance level of the tire. Marginally softer shock settings i would agree with, if only because most shocks end up set too stiff in the dry for the same yaw damping feel and stiff shocks will increase the load variation and consequently reduce grip. I would not automatically go full soft though.