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Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:25 pm
by Marshall Grice
Sebastian Rios wrote:The steering wheels are ridiculous, more buttons and knobs than a 747.
Edit: Why do they practice or test on wets when it's dry out?
I can assure there are WAY more buttons in a 747!
it's fairly standard for the team to do the installation lap on a set of inter's. saves runs on the good tires for when they really want to go fast.
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:46 pm
by Aaron Goldsmith
Marshall Grice wrote:Sebastian Rios wrote:The steering wheels are ridiculous, more buttons and knobs than a 747.
Edit: Why do they practice or test on wets when it's dry out?
I can assure there are WAY more buttons in a 747!
it's fairly standard for the team to do the installation lap on a set of inter's. saves runs on the good tires for when they really want to go fast.
Yeah, gotta make sure stuff isn't going to fall off.
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:58 am
by Bob Beamesderfer
Renault:
Williams:
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:45 am
by Jeff Shyu
so, the 2 change per lap rule on the front wing.
if you're approaching the front straight, level out the front wing, for a bit more speed, and as you're approaching the braking zone, you adjust it back. does that constitute 2 changes? or is that 1?
is there a minimum duration before it registers as "change"? ie, if a driver thought he had a passing opportunity, but the guy next to him went kerplowie as he was making the change, and he immediately changes the angle back?
the adjustable front element seems to be one of those things that would allow the leader to really extend the lead if he doesn't have to deal with defending, and can just optimize the wing for speed?
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:04 am
by Steve Ekstrand
What a bunch of lamers.... Allow an adjustable wing them limit how many times you can use it. Do they work in government?
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:14 am
by Jeff Shyu
and what constitutes driver adjusted?
i'm guessing the wing's not adjusted via mechanical cable attached to a lever in the cockpit, so it must be some electronic knob on the steering wheel hooked up to a pneumatic arm.
can the angle then be made to be "computerized" so that at the push of a button by the driver, the attack angle be changed gradually but consistently (say, a braking zone, or coming onto a straight from a tight hairpin? angle would be changed based upon speed and maybe G load?) over a period of 2-3 seconds?
what about varying the angles separately on the left and right side?
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:20 am
by Marshall Grice
Jeff Shyu wrote:and what constitutes driver adjusted?
i'm guessing the wing's not adjusted via mechanical cable attached to a lever in the cockpit, so it must be some electronic knob on the steering wheel hooked up to a pneumatic arm.
can the angle then be made to be "computerized" so that at the push of a button by the driver, the attack angle be changed gradually but consistently (say, a braking zone, or coming onto a straight from a tight hairpin? angle would be changed based upon speed and maybe G load?) over a period of 2-3 seconds?
what about varying the angles separately on the left and right side?
why don't you tell us?
http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/f1regs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:30 am
by Jeff Shyu
3.18 Driver adjustable bodywork:
a single closed section situated each side of car centre line in the volume bounded by:
- lines 450mm and 800mm in front of the front wheel centre line;
- a vertical plane which intersects these lines at a distance 250mm from the car centre line;
- and the inboard face of the body work described in artical 3.7.5;
is allowed to change incidence while the vehicle is in motion within a maximum range of 6*, provided any such change maintains compliance with all of the bodywork dimensional regulations.
alteration of the incidence of these sections must be made simultaneously and may only be commanded by direct driver input and controlled using the control electronics specified in article 8.2. Except when the car is in the pit lane, a maximum of two adjustments may be made within any single lap of a circuit.
and i didn't bother typing up article 8.2, but there's nothing specifying any further the degree of driver input. in fact, it makes a lot of connections to the ECU, making it each easier case to let the ECU feed info to the steering wheel.
i dunno, it seems like there's no rules against having the ECU figure out the optimal angle for the front wing at your given speed, and then letting the driver push a button to tell the ecu to "make it so". definitely nothing about the time taken to make the adjustments.
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:11 am
by Jeff Shyu
there's some additional stuff saying that the telemetry devices can't be hooked up to actuation devices, etc, but i think that's really more of a gray area on exactly where the "driver control" falls inline of the whole thing.
i think the whole driver adjustable front wing opens up a barn door of possibilities that wasn't fully thought out.
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:00 am
by Marshall Grice
Jeff Shyu wrote:
i think the whole driver adjustable front wing opens up a barn door of possibilities that wasn't fully thought out.
accept for the fact that they are controlled by a FIA spec ecu.
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:30 am
by Jeff Shyu
Marshall Grice wrote:Jeff Shyu wrote:
i think the whole driver adjustable front wing opens up a barn door of possibilities that wasn't fully thought out.
accept for the fact that they are controlled by a FIA spec ecu.
the driver must activate something to get the wing to move.
the ecu sends a signal.
in order for a driver to be able to adjust in 6* range, the most rudimentary form would be some sort of turn knob that's like a potentiometer. that electrical signal must be sent to the ECU to actuate the solnoid. the same programing inside the ECU must allow for preset angles so that rather than a potentiometer, a team can elect to have only 2 positions, max and min adj angle. given those limitations within the ecu, and incorporating both system, i don't see why there couldn't be a pushbutton activation that would send a time delayed voltage reading to the ECU to slow down the wing actuation?
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:07 pm
by Bob Beamesderfer
BMW
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:56 pm
by Bob Beamesderfer
Q&A about 2009 rules changes with Charlie Whiting, F1 Race Director:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21143.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Despite the return of slick tires, the stupid two-compounds per race rule still exists.
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:40 am
by Bob Beamesderfer
Renault's new test driver:
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:41 am
by Jeff Shyu
isn't he too tall for F1?
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:13 am
by Kurt Rahn
Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Renault's new test driver:
Hey look...Villeneuve is back!
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:59 pm
by Bill Schenker
Kurt Rahn wrote:Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Renault's new test driver:
Hey look...Villeneuve is back!
ROTFLMAO!
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:46 am
by Bob Beamesderfer
Red Bull Racing:
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:51 am
by Jeff Shyu
haha.. 2nd picture:
redbull gives you [much smaller] wings.
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:04 am
by Mako Koiwai
Here's their weird "bulbous bow" diverter in front of the splitter?
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:05 am
by Bob Beamesderfer
That is bizarre looking, but Newey is quite the master of aero design.
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:30 am
by Mako Koiwai
From Naval Architecture:
Bulbous bow: A prominent appendage attached to the bow in order to reduce resistance and thus reduce required horsepower.
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:26 am
by Bob Beamesderfer
Mako Koiwai wrote:From Naval Architecture:
Bulbous bow: A prominent appendage attached to the bow in order to reduce resistance and thus reduce required horsepower.
I knew I'd seen something like it before. America's Cup yacht?
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:29 pm
by Aaron Goldsmith
Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Mako Koiwai wrote:From Naval Architecture:
Bulbous bow: A prominent appendage attached to the bow in order to reduce resistance and thus reduce required horsepower.
I knew I'd seen something like it before. America's Cup yacht?
any modern container boat or oil tanker:
Re: The new look of F1
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:51 pm
by KJ Christopher
Aaron Goldsmith wrote:
any modern container boat or oil tanker:
I like the way it just makes it skim across the top of the water, removing all that hydrodynamic drag.