Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Kristoffer Gjevre »

...
The additional leaked information on Thursday also showed that Fernando Alonso was brought in for his pitstop before the Piquet crash two laps early, with more than 8kg of fuel left in his tank.

The Spanish driver's race engineer was at the time concerned about the change of strategy, to which radio evidence shows Symonds replied: "No, no, it's going to be alright."
It has been suggested that Alonso knew about it but I say this is an indication he did not.
Last edited by Kristoffer Gjevre on Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Kristoffer Gjevre »

Julian Manolov wrote: Piquet already has immunity. Now Pat Symonds is offered immunity.
You can guess who will fall next week:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78646" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 34,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...
Both father and son have been vocal in their criticism of Renault following Piquet jnr's axing from the team earlier in the season, with many suggesting the pair are simply out for revenge.

Bernie Ecclestone added credence to the claims when he told the newspaper, "Nelson told me that he is going to do everything he can to destroy Briatore."
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Kristoffer Gjevre »

Lots of good stuff here:
http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/14393/900/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

In separate F1 news...

Lotus comes in... BMWSauber allowed in at 14th team with a successful sale....

Are we really going to see 28 cars in F1?
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Giovanni Jaramillo »

Steve Ekstrand wrote:Are we really going to see 28 cars in F1?
Just like the good ol' days :) Yeah BMW-Sauber got sold but they are out as engine supplier.
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Julian Manolov »

Latest hot news is Flavio Briatore has been fired by Renault. An attempt by Renault to please FIA at the hearing next week.

I guess the immunity offer to Pat Symonds is so they hear an official story from Nelson and him now that Flavio is officially history.

Btw, here is a document with all the leaked radio transcripts, the datalog from Piquet's car during the crash:

http://axisofoversteer.com/blog/documen ... f%20PK.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

Wow!
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Giovanni Jaramillo »

Julian Manolov wrote:Latest hot news is Flavio Briatore has been fired by Renault.
Like I said..........where there's smoke....there's fire. But please do NOT shed a tear for Flavor Flav :) I'm sure his wife will console him.

Flavio at the beach with wife........caution....may make you BARF at the screen!
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Bob Beamesderfer »

Julian Manolov wrote:Latest hot news is Flavio Briatore has been fired by Renault. An attempt by Renault to please FIA at the hearing next week.
This after last week's doubtful report that Flav had met with Ghosn and was being supported by Renault. If Ghosn thinks he needs a few more millions to sell more electric Cubes in Asia, the F1 team will be gone faster than you can say "plug-in infrastructure."
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Bob Beamesderfer »

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:
Julian Manolov wrote:Latest hot news is Flavio Briatore has been fired by Renault.
Like I said..........where there's smoke....there's fire. But please do NOT shed a tear for Flavor Flav :) I'm sure his wife will console him.

Flavio at the beach with wife........caution....may make you BARF at the screen!
Ol' Flav will not suffer. A couple of years ago he was hanging with Naomi Campbell, but maybe she got "too old" for him. :lol:
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Giovanni Jaramillo »

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:
Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:
Julian Manolov wrote:Latest hot news is Flavio Briatore has been fired by Renault.
Like I said..........where there's smoke....there's fire. But please do NOT shed a tear for Flavor Flav :) I'm sure his wife will console him.

Flavio at the beach with wife........caution....may make you BARF at the screen!
Ol' Flav will not suffer. A couple of years ago he was hanging with Naomi Campbell, but maybe she got "too old" for him. :lol:
And before that Heidi Klum.
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Mako Koiwai »

Sounds like something that might have taken place in the early NASCAR days! To deliberately crash an F1 seems ... Bizarre!

I don't like the tattle tale aspect of this whole story ... what do you guys think? Will anyone every hire Pipsqueak Jr ... besides Sr?
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Bob Beamesderfer »

Piquet Jr. will be lucky to get a drive in the riding-mower racing series.

The ouster of Flav and Symonds is officially official:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21831.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Renault's action is the only way to protect the team's standing for the rest of the season and into next year. My guess is that they'll be stripped of all of last year's constructor's points and the money that goes with, maybe all of this year's and fined big time; probably more than the McLaren fine.
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Chuck Fowler »

what gets me is the stupidity of wrecking the car. supposedly they picked the one spot on the track a crane couldn't reach, why not just shut it off and do a lousy job of pulling over at the same place? "uh oh, thought i heard a noise in the engine" }:)
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Bob Beamesderfer »

Chuck Fowler wrote:what gets me is the stupidity of wrecking the car. supposedly they picked the one spot on the track a crane couldn't reach, why not just shut it off and do a lousy job of pulling over at the same place? "uh oh, thought i heard a noise in the engine" }:)
Either deception would show on the data logs, however those don't seem to be part of any permanent record.

Meanwhile, grandprix.com reports this; read all of it; not just the headline:
SEPTEMBER 16, 2009
Briatore and Symonds out - Renault not disputing charges

The ING Renault F1 Team says that it will not dispute the "recent allegations made by the FIA concerning the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix". The FIA said that the team had "conspired with its driver, Nelson Piquet Jr, to cause a deliberate crash at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix with the aim of causing the deployment of the safety car to the advantage of its other driver, Fernando Alonso". The FIA also announced that the team had been called to answer charges, "including a breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code", which states that 'any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally" will be punished. While Renault is not admitting all of the above, it is not disputing that the team conspired to cause a deliberate crash nor that fraudulent conduct was involved. Lawyers may argue that there are distinctions between not disputing and openly admitting but now is not the moment for legal sophistry. The sport is in the spotlight for yet another scandal and one which The Times newspaper described today as "one of the worst examples of pre-meditated cheating in the history of professional sport". It is clearly not a time to fudge justice, lest the sport add to its already dubious reputation, summed up by a column in The Guardian a few days ago which described F1 as being "a sport stripped of its integrity, its old values replaced by a superficial prosperity that can no longer conceal a putrescent core".

This is heavy stuff.

The rules say that any breach of the regulations committed by any organiser, official, competitor, driver, "or other person or organisation" may be penalised. This would seem to cover all concerned. The penalties on offer include minor things such as a reprimand right up to disqualification, which means that the person in question would not be allowed to take part in any FIA-governed motorsport perhaps permanently.

It is clear that the ING Renault F1 Team is throwing itself at the mercy of the FIA World Council. The company can now blame the whole incident on the departed staff members Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds and can ask the FIA to be lenient on the team. It is very clear that the Renault company knew nothing about what was happening and indeed the entire plan was designed to create a victory that resulted in Renault deciding to go on in F1. One might argue that Renault was, in effect, being hoodwinked by its own staff. In any case, it has been the victim of the collosal negative publicity that has been seen in recent days.

Having said this, the FIA cannot simply ignore what has happened. Briatore and Symonds must be punished and there is the troublesome question of the precedent set in 1995 when Toyota was caught using deliberately illegal turbo restrictors on the Catalunya Rally in Spain. The team admitted the situation and argued that it had been done without the knowledge of the team management. In that case the FIA World Council rejected the pleas and banned Toyota from the World Rally Championship for 12 months. The current scandal is undoubtedly worse than that, in that there is a safety element in this case which makes the offence all the more disgraceful.

When all is said and done, the World Council meeting will have to consider rather more than how Renault, Briatore and Symonds should be punished. The federation will be as much on trial as those involved in the scandal and a failure to do the right thing will be viewed as a massive failure.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21831.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Mako Koiwai »

This is terrible ... but I would hate to loose a team and a fast driver like Alonso ... for the rest of the year, 12 months, whatever. I guess Alonso is innocent ...
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

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Mako Koiwai wrote:This is terrible ... but I would hate to loose a team and a fast driver like Alonso ... for the rest of the year, 12 months, whatever. I guess Alonso is innocent ...
The thing I think is hilarious is how is what Nelsinho did at Singapore markedly different than what Schuey did at Monaco a few years back. He deliberately parked his Ferrari at Rascasse just before the end of quali when he was ahead, prompting a yellow for the remainder of quali and preventing anyone from taking the pole from him. What did he get for that? A ten-spot grid penalty or something? I guess the difference is that it wasn't a conspiracy because no one at Ferrari had to tell Michael to do it because he's so savvy and strategic.

I agree, Alsonso seems to have had no idea what was going on. He shouldn't be punished. I don't think Renault will get the book thrown at them, especially in this economy and given the they threw Flava flav and Symonds under the bus.
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Mako Koiwai »

Did Flav have any connections to the Benneton clothing company ?
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

Under his agreement with Luciano Benetton, Flavio got a percentage of the franchising fees for all 800 US retail outlets. That made him a very rich man.
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Kristoffer Gjevre »

Mako Koiwai wrote:Did Flav have any connections to the Benneton clothing company ?
Steve Ekstrand wrote:Under his agreement with Luciano Benetton, Flavio got a percentage of the franchising fees for all 800 US retail outlets. That made him a very rich man.
I found it interesting to read this a few days ago:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briatore" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

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Mako Koiwai wrote:Did Flav have any connections to the Benneton clothing company ?


Yup. And he is a well known fraud and criminal too. In the past he fled his home country (Italy) because he was sentenced to 4 years of jail:

"Flavio had been working for Atilio Dutto, owner of Paramatti Vernici. Flavio Briatore got involved in the bankrupcy of Paramatti and was judged for fraud in Bergamo and Milan being sentenced to 4 years and 6 months’ prison. To avoid jail he fled to St Thomas in the Virgin Islands where he kept close contact with Benetton and opened some of his stores. When Luciano Benetton opened his first five stores in the US in 1979 he appointed Flavio Briatore as director of the group’s American operations. Due to its unorthodox franchising policy Benetton’s popularity soon started to grow in the US and by 1989 more than 800 Benetton stores had already opened. When the owners of Benetton stores started to complain about competition by other Benetton stores and the number of stores went down up to 200 Flavio thought it was high time to search for new business opportunities and moved to Formula One."





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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Julian Manolov »

Surprise, surprise ... Today's news is that the FIA Formula One Race Director Charlie Whiting knew about the deliberate crash from some time LAST YEAR!
Piquet revealed that after learning from his son about the deliberate crash only days after the September 2008 event, he told his former Brabham colleague Charlie Whiting
... "Anyway in Brazil I talk to Charlie... I got him and I said 'Look, what could happen to Nelson if I bring this up?' And I was afraid to screw up the career of Nelson," Piquet said. "In the race in Brazil I called Charlie and I told the whole story to Charlie."
If Charlie knew, then his friend Bernie also knew and Max knew ...
Most likely all those guys knew the entire story from last year have looked at the radio transmissions, etc. and collected most of their evidence long, long time ago... and just pushed Jr. to write his statement so they can go after Renault now that he is not part of the team anymore ...
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Mako Koiwai »

Whatever, I just hope that we fans aren't penalized by Renault not running
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

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Julian Manolov wrote: "Flavio had been working for Atilio Dutto, owner of Paramatti Vernici. Flavio Briatore got involved in the bankrupcy of Paramatti and was judged for fraud in Bergamo and Milan being sentenced to 4 years and 6 months’ prison. To avoid jail he fled to St Thomas in the Virgin Islands where he kept close contact with Benetton and opened some of his stores. When Luciano Benetton opened his first five stores in the US in 1979 he appointed Flavio Briatore as director of the group’s American operations. Due to its unorthodox franchising policy Benetton’s popularity soon started to grow in the US and by 1989 more than 800 Benetton stores had already opened. When the owners of Benetton stores started to complain about competition by other Benetton stores and the number of stores went down up to 200 Flavio thought it was high time to search for new business opportunities and moved to Formula One."
He was already commercial director of the Bennetton F1 team for the 1987 season. He became team director in 1989. Bernie helped Flav hire Nelson Sr., who won a couple of world titles for Bernie's Brabham team in the turbo era of the early 1980s.
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Re: Did Flavio fix the 2008 Singapore GP?

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

Julian Manolov wrote:
Mako Koiwai wrote:Did Flav have any connections to the Benneton clothing company ?


Yup. And he is a well known fraud and criminal too. In the past he fled his home country (Italy) because he was sentenced to 4 years of jail:

"Flavio had been working for Atilio Dutto, owner of Paramatti Vernici. Flavio Briatore got involved in the bankrupcy of Paramatti and was judged for fraud in Bergamo and Milan being sentenced to 4 years and 6 months’ prison. To avoid jail he fled to St Thomas in the Virgin Islands where he kept close contact with Benetton and opened some of his stores. When Luciano Benetton opened his first five stores in the US in 1979 he appointed Flavio Briatore as director of the group’s American operations. Due to its unorthodox franchising policy Benetton’s popularity soon started to grow in the US and by 1989 more than 800 Benetton stores had already opened. When the owners of Benetton stores started to complain about competition by other Benetton stores and the number of stores went down up to 200 Flavio thought it was high time to search for new business opportunities and moved to Formula One."

Its probably even worse than that..... Dutto was murdered by a car bomb in an attack that was never solved. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Dutto was murdered by Briatore to help cover up his fraud and theft.
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