Cal Club Autocross Forums

I moved back to So Cal 4 months ago. I saw this website soon there after, and some of the auto crosses seemed pricier than what a Detroit auto-x event would cost, So I didnt look at the website for a while. I've always wanted to improve my skills somehow, and I saw the class. I thought it sounded a little pricey, and then I assumed the class would be filled...But after thinking about it, it sounds like a great event, so I just put my check in the mail a few minutes ago.

adalberto amador wrote:I moved back to So Cal 4 months ago. I saw this website soon there after, and some of the auto crosses seemed pricier than what a Detroit auto-x event would cost, So I didnt look at the website for a while. I've always wanted to improve my skills somehow, and I saw the class. I thought it sounded a little pricey, and then I assumed the class would be filled...But after thinking about it, it sounds like a great event, so I just put my check in the mail a few minutes ago.

If you can swing it, you won't be disappointed. The instructor's list may or not have names you recognize, but it's a stellar lineup.

The one that said, "for that price one shouldn't have to work," ... is signing up for the school.

I bet after this weekend the school will fill up.
I wish I could attend but I am booked that weekend.

Mike Kazmierczak wrote:I was hesitant to sign-up because of the cost.

I was too... I attended a school as my 1st autox event about 3 years ago and I think I remember it being quite a bit cheaper. However, things considered, I still signed up.

Doug Teulie wrote:I bet after this weekend the school will fill up.
I wish I could attend but I am booked that weekend.

I really wish I could attend---I have a free entry from a banquet raffle in 2006-IIRC---but will be out of town,

Mako Koiwai wrote:Two fellows over at Mako's Miata (@ Ur Own Risk) Garage ... one novice says it's too expensive compared to the SD School ... the other 1st year driver says that for that price one shouldn't have to work?!

Course work and event operation is part of Solo racing. I believe the SD school is one day, no practice included on Day 2.

You do the math, but HPDE in my mind gives you sooo much more track time and
you are on a REAL track for about the same amount of money ($140-$170), FYI for newbies they get FREE instructors too...

Solo track time
$70 Practice 12 runs
$30 Entry 3 runs
$25 X-runs 3 RUNS
$125 total 18 runs * 65 sec = 1170 seconds/60=19.5 minutes

HPDE track time
Any HPDE 5 sessions at 25 minutes each = 125 minutes

If you want to analyze that way, who the hell would ever drag race???

Grant Heathman wrote:You do the math, but HPDE in my mind gives you sooo much more track time and
you are on a REAL track for about the same amount of money ($140-$170), FYI for newbies they get FREE instructors too...

Solo track time
$70 Practice 12 runs
$30 Entry 3 runs
$25 X-runs 3 RUNS
$125 total 18 runs * 65 sec = 1170 seconds/60=19.5 minutes

HPDE track time
Any HPDE 5 sessions at 25 minutes each = 125 minutes

The differences have to also factor in.

Time at 10/10ths.
Solo: Almost the entire time.
HPDE: What? Are you nuts? Not many HPDE guys drive at 10/10ths. Sure, you are on a "real tracK" but you aint racing.

With solo you can safely explore the envelope at 10/10ths and beyond.

Then factor in wear and tear on the car. Then factor in risk. An "oops" on a solo course is normally not a big deal. That is not the same case on a track at speed.

I guess it depends whether you want to do track days or whether you're focused on autocross. I have a limited amount of money and time, and I have to run my daily driver, so the propsects of flipping it or putting it into a wall are not that appealing. Don't get me wrong...I'd like to try a track day at some point. Also, I'm now officially obsessed with autox and I'm one of this dysfunctional people that will go to extreme lengths not to lose (which I've done like clockwork every month for the last 1.5 years), so given what's being offered, I'd pay double what's being asked. But that's just me.

Based on the flyer I thought it was a lottery for all the spots, now that that has been clarified I'll be sending mine in ASAP....

FWIW...

I have been a student at 2 Cal Club schools and EVO 1 & 2. The bang for the buck is greater at the Cal Club schools, IMHO. For almost anyone with two years or less AX experience passing up this school is a mistake.

Grant Heathman wrote:You do the math, but HPDE in my mind gives you sooo much more track time and
you are on a REAL track for about the same amount of money ($140-$170), FYI for newbies they get FREE instructors too...

Solo track time
$70 Practice 12 runs
$30 Entry 3 runs
$25 X-runs 3 RUNS
$125 total 18 runs * 65 sec = 1170 seconds/60=19.5 minutes

HPDE track time
Any HPDE 5 sessions at 25 minutes each = 125 minutes

Oh, Grant! Don't go here. Like HPDE more? Fine. Have your own reasons why. Fine. Absolutely. But try to use these reasons/numbers to convince (?) us, or justify why others should shun AX for HPDE? Not the place. We love our sport and we want to share that love-of-this-sport with others. Best to just leave us to keep playin' in our little sandbox and have your fun out on those real tracks.

And don't even TRY to get in a numbers/minute game with me! By your reasoning, my 60 secs. of ski racing down an icy slope wasn't nearly as exciting as that 50k cross country ski race I should have been doing, lol.

Different strokes for different folks.

I was going to take up skydiving... but it is pretty expensive and over in a couple minutes. I found I could just ride in an airplane for HOURS for less cost.

Grant Heathman wrote: HPDE track time
Any HPDE 5 sessions at 25 minutes each = 125 minutes

Parade laps for 125 minutes and you have to pay?

Oh, Grant! Don't go here. Like HPDE more? Fine. Have your own reasons why. Fine. Absolutely. But try to use these reasons/numbers to convince (?) us, or justify why others should shun AX for HPDE? Not the place. We love our sport and we want to share that love-of-this-sport with others. Best to just leave us to keep playin' in our little sandbox and have your fun out on those real tracks.

All I think is more track time for AX would help, not to bash AX, when you want new people to come out give them a carrot...

Grant Heathman wrote:All I think is more track time for AX would help

In what way? Longer course or more runs? If the former it would only apply to say a practice (not a champ IMO simply because we'd be there til dusk to try and fit in everyone.....ASSUMING nothing goes wrong such as computer/timing problems, course delays due to car malfunctions, etc...)

If the latter, then we'd have to have LESS people, charge MORE money, thus making practices even HARDER to get into. It's just the nature of the sport.

Normally I would jump at the chance to attend a school. Although, I have been out of work for over 8 months now and I can't be spending that kind of money until I get a job. I have stopped racing this year due to being out of work. I miss racing very much. I look forward to the next school when I hopefully have a job.

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote: Longer course? ...........not a champ IMO simply because we'd be there til dusk to try and fit in everyone.....

Please don't perpetuate this myth. The number of cars through has nothing to do with course length, only the amount of time between starts. Yes, there is the slight possibility of a reduction if there are a lot of re-runs or red flags, but that's the exception.

You do the math, but HPDE in my mind gives you sooo much more track time and
you are on a REAL track for about the same amount of money ($140-$170),

Does that price include the much more excessive tire wear, brakes, rotors, fluid changes, etc that track events require? For some of us, track days are not in the budget.

Mike Kazmierczak wrote:I was hesitant to sign-up because of the cost.

I don't have a large budget either. I'm already well over budget for car stuff in general, so I feel your pain. However:

I was able to close the gap between me & some of my "just really good driver" friends w/ ONE evo school. That was worth well more than the $200 or $220 or whatever it was. This was my first event ever. The instructors loved the "clean slate" because I didn't have any bad habits to unlearn yet. That was a few years ago.

Anyway, I attended the solo school 2-3 years back. It was AT LEAST as good as the evo school & the amount of time you get w/ top-tier instructors was incredible. The car I actually brought to the school was stock & had crappy tires, but I still learned so much. I easily learned more in that solo school than I did w/ 5-6 practice/championship weekends. Ever since then, I've slowly catching up w/ my even better driving friends from outside & inside autox.

If I had to choose between going to a solo school or doing 2 (or even 3) practice/championship weekends, I'd pick the solo school & just not attend a practice or two. Of course, it's your decision - everyone has different goals & budgets for autoxing, it's all about how badly you want to improve the driver.

I'm confident that there has been no one who has regretted taking the solo school in the past.

Quoc-Viet Dang wrote:I don't have a large budget either. I'm already well over budget for car stuff in general, so I feel your pain. However:

I was able to close the gap between me & some of my "just really good driver" friends w/ ONE evo school. That was worth well more than the $200 or $220 or whatever it was. This was my first event ever. The instructors loved the "clean slate" because I didn't have any bad habits to unlearn yet. That was a few years ago.

Anyway, I attended the solo school 2-3 years back. It was AT LEAST as good as the evo school & the amount of time you get w/ top-tier instructors was incredible. The car I actually brought to the school was stock & had crappy tires, but I still learned so much. I easily learned more in that solo school than I did w/ 5-6 practice/championship weekends. Ever since then, I've slowly catching up w/ my even better driving friends from outside & inside autox.

If I had to choose between going to a solo school or doing 2 (or even 3) practice/championship weekends, I'd pick the solo school & just not attend a practice or two. Of course, it's your decision - everyone has different goals & budgets for autoxing, it's all about how badly you want to improve the driver.

I'm confident that there has been no one who has regretted taking the solo school in the past.

Well put, QV!

Even Tom Berry has been seen taking advantage of Instructors. How Many National Titles Does Mr. Berry Have ?!

There is always more to learn ...

Rick Brown wrote:

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote: Longer course? ...........not a champ IMO simply because we'd be there til dusk to try and fit in everyone.....

Please don't perpetuate this myth. The number of cars through has nothing to do with course length, only the amount of time between starts. Yes, there is the slight possibility of a reduction if there are a lot of re-runs or red flags, but that's the exception.

Very Near Future Op Steward in training - Marshall

You should take notes on this one. Jason will be testing you at the tour and at nationals. Bring a watch!

And remember - thou shalt never say - "Hold the Start" :mrt: