Cal Club Autocross Forums

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 3:08 pm**

Craig, I'm sorry, you are right, when it comes down to it, the 195/50/15 Toyo R1R will only work on a FWD 1989-1991 Honda Civic Si built to Spec ST Civic. Who cares about optimal air pressures, wheel width, side wall stiffness and tire width.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 3:12 pm**

Strange observation on the ST Civic....

My 195 toyo's seem to last longer than the 225's. I can't explain that one.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 3:13 pm**

oh and i forgot, it absolutely has to have the build date 3407 or 3507 stamping. All other tires will be slower.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 3:16 pm**

Steve Ekstrand wrote:Strange observation on the ST Civic....

My 195 toyo's seem to last longer than the 225's. I can't explain that one.

You should really test your 225's and 195's back to back, then you will understand what is going on between the two.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 3:28 pm**

Jeff Wong wrote:Craig, I'm sorry, you are right, when it comes down to it, the 195/50/15 Toyo R1R will only work on a FWD 1989-1991 Honda Civic Si built to Spec ST Civic. Who cares about optimal air pressures, wheel width, side wall stiffness and tire width.

Dude you ripped me apart, questioned everything I stated. I answered all of your questions, now you go all huffy? Didn't say the 195 wouldn't work, hell they Sunny's I've got as street tires work. I was sharing what a group of people competing in the same car, on the list of suggested tires, have expressed.

But please by all means.... I'm willing to listen. More info is better than less info. But your post discounted all other posts and stated the 195 Toyo was the tire to have in the Miata. Substantiate, that's all.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 3:44 pm**

Craig Naylor wrote:
Jeff Wong wrote:Craig, I'm sorry, you are right, when it comes down to it, the 195/50/15 Toyo R1R will only work on a FWD 1989-1991 Honda Civic Si built to Spec ST Civic. Who cares about optimal air pressures, wheel width, side wall stiffness and tire width.
Dude you ripped me apart, questioned everything I stated. I answered all of your questions, now you go all huffy? Didn't say the 195 wouldn't work, hell they Sunny's I've got as street tires work. I was sharing what a group of people competing in the same car, on the list of suggested tires, have expressed.

But please by all means.... I'm willing to listen. More info is better than less info. But your post discounted all other posts and stated the 195 Toyo was the tire to have in the Miata. Substantiate, that's all.

FWIW, I didn't discount all other posts and state that the 195 Toyo was the tire to have on the Miata.

I was simply stating my experience and was curious about what you posted and wanted to know more.

I bet you if you had someone test the two tires though, you would see a significant difference between times and how each tire drives on a their Miata.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 3:45 pm**

Geoff Chambers - Get the answer you were looking for. Yea, I didn't think so.

Don't people test anything for themselves anymore or is it just better to get on the internet and trust the words of a perfect stranger behind a keyboard?

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 4:18 pm**

Why would somebody like Steve Collins, who isn't a top 1% national level contender, test back-to-back multiple tire brands and sizes for himself? That would be silly to start from scratch.
And that's true for nearly everybody in our sport. We aren't professional race teams. There isn't the budget, time, nor the opportunity for most of us.
And why shouldn't we lemming on to what the very top handful of guys are doing??? Or at least learn from it, and evaluate the data for our own needs?
If those people don't want to share, fine. But don't judge those who ask nor those who give.

I have tested the toyo 225, the 195, and the 225/195 at the same time. But I'm not convinced the same setup works with all three. You have to optimize setups for those tires. And then you've changed more than one thing. Its not that easy. Plus the courses on our practices have a tendency to degrade through the day. Cones get out of place, things open up. Lines get clean, or dirty. Heat.... Lots of variables. Ultimately, for my ST Civic, the 195's seem to let the car dance and drive even if potentially a little less skidpad grip. The 225's feel awful and really vague. And the car feels bound up with them. Again, I've heard different opinions from Miataephiles than what most Civilians and myself have expressed.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 4:34 pm**

@steve collins

Here is a list of tires that I personally have tested. Like i mentioned before, the Hankook RS3 will be your bang for buck tire. Any of the new crop tires are a good pick. You have no bad choices! Although i do say each tire has a different optimal setup.

Hankook RS3
I finally killed my set at El Toro. They did not fall off grip wise. It only died because i corded them Shocked Recorded approx. 340+ run DRY only

Toyos
100-110 run lifeline on 15x7s is not very encouraging, especially for a college student like myself. I will not be running these as dry tires again. Awesome in the wet

Bridgestone RE-11
I spent the whole 2009 season on the RE-11s. Pretty good durable tire. Lasted about 200 Grip runs and the rest of the 60 runs were good enough for practice. I did not have to water my tires for majority of the year. Only during the REALLY hot summer but even then it was just minor spraying.

Dunlop Z1 *spec
I had these in 195/55R15 and the grip compound wise was better than the RE01Rs (at the time). I'm not quite sure if i am convinced that these will be faster than a Kook or Toyo. I think they work great for the bigger cars because they can support the weight better than the other crops.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 6:07 pm**

Mako Koiwai wrote:There must be a reason the XS is not loved ... even though it did well in this Car & Driver test (first in the dry): http://tinyurl.com/koal9l

See "auto cross times in the Dry"

I think I heard something to the affect that Kumho shot themselves in the foot by not releasing the XS sooner, allowing for people to test it out and develop their cars.

Pretty good contingency though..

Posted: **Tue May 11, 2010 9:56 pm**

Thanks gang, for the advice, thoughts, test reports, witty banter, etc. Hmmm... The RS3 seems somewhat elusive at present. Anyone heard anything about their future availability? I'm seeing cords so nature may force my hand.

Thanks for the the offer Steve E. That's an interesting option. I'll probably shop and stew a bit more if my luck doesn't run out...

steve

Posted: **Tue May 11, 2010 10:49 pm**

Steve Collins wrote:Thanks gang, for the advice, thoughts, test reports, witty banter, etc. Hmmm... The RS3 seems somewhat elusive at present. Anyone heard anything about their future availability? I'm seeing cords so nature may force my hand.

Thanks for the the offer Steve E. That's an interesting option. I'll probably shop and stew a bit more if my luck doesn't run out...

steve

Mid to End of May. Im waiting for my set. ETA May 17

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2010 12:56 am**

Leonard Cachola wrote:My experience with 205/50/16 Dunlop Z1 Star Specs has been a mixed bag - good tread life and easy to handle at the limit, but with one caveat: my last three sets have had chunking issues - could be due to my driving, but two other forum members have had issues as well (Tim Aing and Andrew Bingham) and we all drive street tire stock cars, so this might not be an issue with an STS car. I'm going to be moving to a new brand after the current set on my car is done.

Come to the dark side...I heart Bridgestone.... }:)

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2010 7:21 am**

Dan Shaw wrote:
Leonard Cachola wrote:My experience with 205/50/16 Dunlop Z1 Star Specs has been a mixed bag - good tread life and easy to handle at the limit, but with one caveat: my last three sets have had chunking issues - could be due to my driving, but two other forum members have had issues as well (Tim Aing and Andrew Bingham) and we all drive street tire stock cars, so this might not be an issue with an STS car. I'm going to be moving to a new brand after the current set on my car is done.

Come to the dark side...I heart Bridgestone.... }:)

More like the expensive side...

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2010 9:26 am**

Ron Tsumura wrote:
Mako Koiwai wrote:There must be a reason the XS is not loved ... even though it did well in this Car & Driver test (first in the dry): http://tinyurl.com/koal9l

See "auto cross times in the Dry"
I think I heard something to the affect that Kumho shot themselves in the foot by not releasing the XS sooner, allowing for people to test it out and develop their cars.

Pretty good contingency though..

Hey Ron,

I noticed that (departing from the topic slightly folks - sorry!) Kumho XS has a 265-45-16 which would be good for the S2k for the street....and occassional autox! None of the others have anything bigger than a 225 in a 16 for AP1's.......hear anything about these?

Reijo (who's looking for tires to replace the Star Specs on the S....which I thought were very good! .... actually excellent in the wet...never mind the dry!)

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2010 10:15 am**

I got them already.

Unfortunately, I think they are too big to run in STR.

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2010 10:27 am**

Reijo Silvennoinen wrote:I noticed that (departing from the topic slightly folks - sorry!) Kumho XS has a 265-45-16 which would be good for the S2k for the street....and occassional autox! None of the others have anything bigger than a 225 in a 16 for AP1's.......hear anything about these?

I don't have any personal experience with them, but all the third party tests I've seen say the the Kumho is horrible in the wet. You might see what Jason I. has to say. He did a street tire test a few issues back for Sports Car.

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2010 12:04 pm**

Hey Dan,

I'm running the Direzza Star Specs and am really liking them so far...2 auto-x's and no chunking yet. Does the grip level stay fairly consistent through the life of the tire?

--Doug

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2010 1:32 pm**

Doug Kott wrote:Hey Dan,

I'm running the Direzza Star Specs and am really liking them so far...2 auto-x's and no chunking yet. Does the grip level stay fairly consistent through the life of the tire?

--Doug

Yes - we used to get 200+ runs on the STI and still competitive.

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2010 2:05 pm**

Good to know...thanks!

--Doug

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2010 7:42 pm**

Jeff Stuart wrote:No Kumho love huh? Well, I'll throw Kumho Ecsta XSs into the mix. Not as good in the wet, but much more affordable! I got mine for $89 a corner.

What were you running before you got the XS and did you like it better or are you happy with the XS?

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2010 7:46 pm**

I am seeing more comments on wet than on hot vs cold. Are most of you running these tires only on race day or as daily driver tires as well?

There are several comments on the wider tires feeling less stable than the narrower tires. If they are on the same size wheel that would make sense. The load path between the wheel and tire sidewall would be less advantages with a wide tire mounted on a rim intended for a narrower tire. Didn't see that enter into the conversation.

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2010 7:58 pm**

Arthur Grant wrote: What were you running before you got the XS and did you like it better or are you happy with the XS?

3x one brand of crappy 400 treadwear tires and
1x another brand of crappy 400 treadwear tires

I like the XSs much more

I am noticing that they seem to be wearing relatively quickly. I don't think there's any way I'd ever get 300 runs out of them. I currently have roughly 75 runs on them, with ~20 of those being really long runs at El Toro. My guess is that they're at least half way done, if not more. There's tons of tread still on the inside of the tire, but that center bar that goes all the way around is really badly worn on the outside edge of the bar. I'm thinking that's to be expected though, with such skinny and tall tires (205/50R15). I thought about getting them flipped on the rims, but I was quoted at $20 a tire, and when the tires only cost $89, that doesn't make much sense to me.

Posted: **Fri May 14, 2010 10:53 pm**

Kumho Tire flexed some muscle at the Sports Car Club of America San Diego National Tour and the El Toro ProSolo over the past two weekends. The proven Ecsta V710 and hot new Ecsta XS ended at the top of the podium.

Jeff Ringer of Los Angeles, California competing in the Index 1 street tire class in a Honda S2000 and Morgan Trotter of Temecula, California, driving a Subaru Impreza in the Index 2 class both swept their respective street stock classes on the Ecsta XS on back-to-back weekends. The Ecsta XS is Kumho’s newest Ultra High Performance street tire designed for extreme handling capability for the most demanding cars and drivers. “Back to back wins in the street tire classes where we compete against all the best performance tires in the world proves the unbeatable performance of the Ecsta XS,” said Rudy Consolacion, Kumho’s Motorsports Manager. “

Posted: **Fri May 14, 2010 11:01 pm**

We look forward to seeing what can be done with XS's on a Vette

Besides what you posted I have to give a big hand to Kumho for their Facebook Award Package that I received! Shirt, hat, frisbee, pen, tire pressure gauge ... and another shirt ... after I was accidentally sent a Yok shirt!

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