Cal Club Autocross Forums

Okay Guys:

You may think I'm reading the message board because of my situation; however, I am reading every word and to be very honest I'm appalled and embarrassed by the words and conduct of this post. I can tell you for sure that Craig is rolling over in his grave over the pettiness of some of these posts.

I would like to clarify the date situation. When the dates were set in October 2007, the September 13-14 was decided on by EVERYONE in attendance at the meeting and Craig was asked to get that date from California Speedway. Done. Then Topeka bumped the Nationals date to earlier in September which then conflicted with our date. September 28 & 29 at California Speedway WAS NOT available, either in October 2007, nor now. Craig attempted to coerce Brian Gye into changing the date, but had no luck. We tried to get El Toro, but they were unavailable. Unfortunately we are stuck with that date.

For those of you who want to change it to a 2-day practice or a school are not thinking of the financial aspect of these events. We will lose money if we have a 2-day practice or a school, therefore, the date stays as a practice/championshp. Unfortunately, this will effect a number of people going to the Nationals. It was decided that those attending the Nationals would receive their average for that event. I'm sorry this is causing so much angst, but there are over 100 people who ARE NOT going to Nationals that would like to have a local championship.

This is not a new problem. We have been battling the Regional vs National dates for probably over 15 years. A number of years ago, Bob Endicott (a very seasoned driver who has gone on to drive professionally) stood up at a Solo 2 meeting and said: "Guys - this is a regional championship series. Those of you who want to run both regional and national events MUST decide where your priorities are. You can't have it both ways."

I'm sorry this has caused so many problems, but the CSCC Solo 2 Committee has gone above and beyond to try and make it feasible for everyone who wants to run National events to have the best of both worlds. Nevertheless, this is one of those times when it can't be done.

For those of you who continue to chastise Cal Club and say they hate it and we're stupid - move on.

I am dealing with a lot at this moment and I consider the Solo 2 community my extended family, as I just lost my best friend and am having a very, very tough time getting through this bad time. Show me some consideration and compassion, please, and try to make it relatively easy for everyone to continue enjoying the sport that Craig and I both so love and hold dear.

Renee

We will lose money with a 2 day practice compared to an undersubscribed championship?????

Lately clubs have been raking it in on practice days with the hope they will cover the losses on Championship day.

Endicott is good driver. Doesn't make him a genius. Doesn't make him right.

It should say "conflicts with ProSolo Finale", which effectively conflicts with 'Nationals' for the reasons Tom B brings up. So yes Sept 13-14 is the date and alternatives were discussed and the reps landed on keeping the 13-14 an e-board practice/champ.

Be offended all you want, but your club rep was at the same meeting I was and should be able to answer your questions. What did your club rep tell you anyways? Furthermore you're perfectly welcome to ask 'the board' questions, but your repetitive and accusational manner has certainly put you on my white noise filter. I consider myself a patient person so I assume you've past many other club reps listening tolerance.

Here's some suggestions, offensive or not. Ask your club rep first, that's what they're for; to represent and answer questions for their members. The club reps are also the ones that set the calendar we're having issues with (your club rep holds approx 20% of the vote btw). Don't ask Gio for info about meetings he wasn't at or a schedule he doesn’t set up, he really shouldn't be 'in the middle of' any of these arguments. I also don't see the point in taking shots at the committee leaders, this just seems childish. You know all the people that go to the meetings, would you call any of them discourteous to their face?

Jay W

Bill Schenker wrote:Wow! This interweb thing is pretty Fin' confusing, because I asked Gio if we are, in fact, having an event on the 13th-14th of Sept., and you tell me that you've already answered it, but when I go to the July minutes, all it says is that:

"The current date at AutoClub Speedway for September coincides with National’s. The Speedway and El Toro have already booked all other dates for September. The lot chair is still looking. If no other location is available, those members going to Nationals can use their average for this event"

I don't see a date there, Jay; am I missing something? And please don't tell me that "Nationals" in this context means the Solo National Championships, Sept. 16-19, 2008 as in our Division, the term, "Nationals" is used to describe anything from a National Tour to a ProSolo to the ProSolo Finale to the National Championships themselves.

Again, I ask: is the date that Gio put up most recently, Sept. 13-14th, the date of the event or not.

And Jay, I have asked my Rep. to look into this, and frankly, find find it offensive that you have a problem that I ask questions to the EBoard directly - I was my club's rep. in the recent past and and know full well that a general member like myself can ask the board directly; as a matter of fact, it's probably the better place the the General board as it can hopefully be responded to in a calm and courtious manner. Oh, wait; what am I thinking - being treated courteously by that group can often be the exception! ;)

Renee Angel wrote:...
For those of you who want to change it to a 2-day practice or a school are not thinking of the financial aspect of these events. We will lose money if we have a 2-day practice or a school, therefore, the date stays as a practice/championshp...

Sorry Renee, this is not your call. We have no charter that say we have to make money on events. If the club reps want to make it a 2 day non-champ, they can.

Jay W

Jayson Woodruff wrote:Don't ask Gio for info about meetings he wasn't at or a schedule he doesn’t set up, he really shouldn't be 'in the middle of' any of these arguments.

Thanks Jay. And yes I got caught up in the middle because I as "Assistant Webmaster" handle updating the calendar based on what's in the meeting minutes. I also post the meeting minutes online once I get them from the secretary. Why people ask me, I don't know.

Jayson Woodruff wrote:I also don't see the point in taking shots at the committee leaders, this just seems childish. You know all the people that go to the meetings, would you call any of them discourteous to their face?

No he wouldn't. And that's what I said to him in another post. Calling me trunk monkey in a playful manner I tolerate from very few and only a few do it. But when it's said in a different tone, it's (to me anyway), the equivalent of calling me a "spic". And that gets me

So with that said, it would be easy to do the same to Steve but I don't lower myself to that level. I truly don't know what has gotten into you Steve but I lost respect for you with this nonsense. I'm sure you don't give s*** if I don't respect you but I'm calling it as I see it (as others have too).

Done for the night.

Jayson Woodruff wrote:

Renee Angel wrote:...

If the club reps want to make it a 2 day non-champ, they can.

Jay W

I have a question.
At some point I would like to know if the September event will be turned into a two day practice or stay a championship. I know it will take some time before this can or will be worked out if the reps can still vote on it. My question is," When should we look for the final decision to be published?" Kathy and I have the Sunday reserved for an Auto-x. Unfortunately we are not going to Nationals this year because Topeka is too expensive. I understand that this is a difficult situation and I see all points of view. I am interested in when the vote may ...or will take place so we can work out our weekend and see this resolved.

Jayson:

It may not be my call as to whether we put on a 2-day practice or leave it as a championship. However, if it is changed to a 2-day practice or school - we will lose money - trust me.

Renee

Doug Teulie wrote:I have a question.
At some point I would like to know if the September event will be turned into a two day practice or stay a championship. I know it will take some time before this can or will be worked out if the reps can still vote on it. My question is," When should we look for the final decision to be published?" Kathy and I have the Sunday reserved for an Auto-x. Unfortunately we are not going to Nationals this year because Topeka is too expensive. I understand that this is a difficult situation and I see all points of view. I am interested in when the vote may ...or will take place so we can work out our weekend and see this resolved.

Third Wednesday of Aug. Minutes typically don't come out immedately, but your club rep should be able to tell you what's happening after the meeting. Its also possible for the club reps to do emergancy stuff on the web, but I'm not seeing a push for that.

Jay W

My apologies to everyone for sounding a little "pissy", but I'm under a lot of stsress right now and having a very difficult time with the fact that Craig left me in such a mess. Everyone is stepping up to the plate and trying to help - please remember that Craig HATED whining, so please everyone kiss & make up for Craig's sake.

Renee

Every one needs to remember that there are over 300 solo members and about 20 will go to the Pro and Nationals. With that in mind.
The dates were picked last Oct. National dates were not out yet. about 2 months ago Craig asked me to get El Toro in Sept. It was Booked every weekend
We only had Cal Motor Speedway . We all talked about this at the club meetings we also said that anyone going to nationals would get there average.
With everything that has happened, I think we should leave it an e-board event , practice and championship. I think the other 300 members will go to a championship... I don`t think at the end of the year you will get people to go to a 2 day practice . and all of the hot shoes will be at Nationals not teaching a school. Brian R.

I agree with Brian R. Even though the folks going to Nationals are some of the biggest contributors for the region, they are a minority, and Nationals does not affect them at all. To be fair to the entire membership, the show must go on, Nationals folks or not.

Here is what I don't get: why on earth do you have a 12 event season, and only TWO drops??? I'll start my rant on another thread. Anyway, here's where I am going with this: why don't we have the event as scheduled, but base the championship points on 9 events (900 points max)? I'm sure one of the reasons why the folks going to Nats aren't happy is becuase this forces a drop for them, or they may not even make 10 events for the year. Would this help?

I myself have no dog in this fight. I'm on the fence about going to Nationals, depending on how competitive of a ride I can find.

James Yom wrote:Here is what I don't get: why on earth do you have a 12 event season, and only TWO drops???

12event season = 3drops, not 2.

Jay W

really? Looking at the 2006 season, there were only 12 championship events, but the points with drops was 1000, meaning you only get 2 drops. Am I not seeing something?

James Yom wrote:Am I not seeing something?

Yeah, the supp regs: (These are out of date, but the '08 rule will still be drop 3 for 12)
http://www.solo2.com/MiscDocuments/2007_supp_regs.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We changed it last year.

Jay W

Ahhh ok. Well, how about we make 8 events count and 4 drops this year to help appease the folks going to Nats?

James Yom wrote:Ahhh ok. Well, how about we make 8 events count and 4 drops this year to help appease the folks going to Nats?

Those people can get their average. Basically they don't use up a drop going to an SCCA event. See supp regs again for further explaination on averages.

Jay W

Yeah I saw the whole thing about averages, but if I was going to Nats and had to miss it, I'd rather take a drop than an average. Then again, I'm about as inconsistent as they come. I'll have to read the Supps one of these days, when my ADD and restless leg syndrome aren't as severe ;)

Thanks Jayson.

Renee Angel wrote:Jayson:

It may not be my call as to whether we put on a 2-day practice or leave it as a championship. However, if it is changed to a 2-day practice or school - we will lose money - trust me.

Renee

Don't have a dog in this fight as I guess I'm a national primmadonna (or whatever he said) and don't care much about the local points. But I am confused by your conclusion. I always thought practices were generally sold out and highly priced. And given that many regulars will be away in KS, your championship entry would be below normal. Given both those effects might not the double practice produce similar or more income? What's the math here? Maybe I'm overestimating the number of people who will be away.

It does seem to me that on principle it's wrong...whatever.

-- Bill

Bill Martin wrote: Given both those effects might not the double practice produce similar or more income? What's the math here? Maybe I'm overestimating the number of people who will be away.

It does seem to me that on principle it's wrong...whatever.

-- Bill

There are certain aspects that will determine if it becomes a double-practice or practice/champ weekend. It may have been mentioned on the committee only msg board but if you want to know PM me offline and I'll explain.

Using the estimate above of 20 traveling to Kansas, I would guess 18 of them show up to any given practice day. You now need to fill those spaces. Additionally they are the more likely ones to enter two consecutive days, as second day practices without a gimic of some sort typically fall off in participation, also being short them, heavily plays into that fee source on the second day.

That said, they are all missing from the entry list of the championship on Sunday. So the second day makes it much more of a guessing game as to fee sourced to cover the weekend. You could probably fill that first days practice, but how many will you attract minus those traveling on the second day for a second day practice. You get less $ per entry for a championship, but more people. You get more $ per entry for a practice, but less entries. It's a real crap shoot as which will be the bigger fee income/loss choice.

As to the 300 members, yea maybe, but when was the last time we had that type of turnout. I'm guessing we have been (not taking the time to look up and count) avg between 150 & 200. The travelers being gone, we will take a 20-25% attendance hit, on the championship and up to a 30-50% hit on the practice (either day).

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:...PM me offline...

Gio - don't give in to the cyber-marketing trendy-speak! PMing someone is an ONLINE activity!

And along those lines a personal pet-peeve of mine: When you're in a meeting in a room full of people, you can't take a discussion "offline" - in-person meetings are already offline! All participants can feel free to talk outside the meeting, however.

Personal related story: When riding the .com boom at a .com, we had a particularly trendy person tell someone in a meeting "We'll take this offline" and I looked at her and said in a urgent, whispering tone loud enough for everyone to hear, "Stephanie! We're not online, he's .... *right there*, in person!"

Once again, I'm in the minority. I've read all the posts and disagree & agree with some of them. As far as Gayle's post, I agree we need to support the drivers participating in the national program; however, at what cost. Everyone is saying let's put on a 2 day practice or school. Is this going to be hosted by the E-Board? Who's going to work the event? Who's going to do all the planning? Who's going to instruct? and the questions go on. This is an unfortunate situation - but we can deal with it.

Renee Angel wrote:Once again, I'm in the minority. I've read all the posts and disagree & agree with some of them. As far as Gayle's post, I agree we need to support the drivers participating in the national program; however, at what cost. Everyone is saying let's put on a 2 day practice or school. Is this going to be hosted by the E-Board? Who's going to work the event? Who's going to do all the planning? Who's going to instruct? and the questions go on. This is an unfortunate situation - but we can deal with it.

I know Renee, you don't want to hear from me.

The event already is an EBoard event.

Can you see the irony of saying it's o.k. for national competitors to miss our event, yet say you can't do a school or practice with out them (which isn't true, btw.)?

Whose going to work it (a dbl. practice or practice/school)? Well, whose going to work a prac./champ. then? You can't have it both ways!

Respectfully,

Bill

Renee Angel wrote: As far as Gayle's post, I agree we need to support the drivers participating in the national program;

And here all this time I thought that's why we gave averages out for those going to National events as a reward/supoprt. Silly me. So why did we do this if they aren't going to use it???

So I can be in Packwood during the NOTLD.

We can't schedule around EVERY SCCA event. But nationals is a little special I'd think.