Cal Club Autocross Forums

WOWOWOWOWOW !!! :gpower:

what the $#$%^^%$*&%(*&##$&&^%$$##%^&&***^%$$
damn Ferrari International Assistance

complete BS. I had just gotten my wife to enjoy watching F1. Now she's threatening to never watch again.

KJ Christopher wrote:complete BS. I had just gotten my wife to enjoy watching F1. Now she's threatening to never watch again.

That's it for me---NASCAR is better---you know who won when the race is over!!! I've watched F1 since the mid 60's, Jim Clark was my hero and I shed more than one tear when he died. I've spent 1000's of hours on my computer with Grand Prix Legends in those cars from 60's. I've looked forward to Sunday afternoons with my DVR, but---Formula 1 sucks---FIA sucks---Massa sucks---Bill you suck for being a fan of the piss-ants in red---it is totally beyond me!

Don

Oh oh ... what happened?

That's such BS !!! He dropped back so he wouldn't be penalized !!!

Mako Koiwai wrote:That's such BS !!! He dropped back so he wouldn't be penalized !!!

Yeah, the folks at grandprix.com, who have several decades of experience covering the sport, say that just about everyone in F1 thinks the decision is crap. The stewards have no credibility. Where's the penalty for Rosberg pulling back on track like that? McLaren says the data show that Hamilton was going 6 kph slower than Raikkonenn when they crossed the start-finish line. If Kimi hadn't binned the car into the wall, maybe, maybe there would be some justification, but this just reeks of favoring Ferrari over everyone, particularly McLaren. The World Motor Sport Council could reverse the decision, and show they real and not some Mosley rubber stamp, but I'm not holding my breath. :mrt: :mrt: :mrt: :mrt: :mrt: :mrt:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20740.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Didn't watch the race.

10 points (Massa 1st, Lewis 3rd)

I'll take it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74TZngbIS9I" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i do think the whole kimmi/lewis pass was pretty bogus, but on the side of Kimmi.

Lewis wasn't able to make a clean pass, and with the accordion affect, there's no way he could have been that close coming into La Source.

Shouldn't Kimi have been penalized for running into the back of Hami?! Heikki got a stop and go for doing the same thing!

Jeff Shyu wrote:i do think the whole kimmi/lewis pass was pretty bogus, but on the side of Kimmi.

Lewis wasn't able to make a clean pass, and with the accordion affect, there's no way he could have been that close coming into La Source.

How do you figure that?! He was right there with Kimi and then forced off at the chicane! Hamilton gave back the position and slotted in behind and then cleanly passed him. It's another bogus FIA racing decision.

I hate to say it, but I'm with Bob here.

Max Hayter wrote:I hate to say it, but I'm with Bob here.

Uh, thanks. Didn't know I was so highly regarded.

Seriously, if the World Council overturn the Stewards decision, is the pointskeeper prepared to update the results? Decision is could be a couple of months off.

We had a damn power outage this morning that according to what my Tivo taped started 20 minutes into the race and power came back during Hammy's interview. The one time I'd like to go back and review what happened!

Yeah, the folks at grandprix.com, who have several decades of experience covering the sport,

Been reading Grandprix.com for 5 years now, and while they definitely have experience covering F1, they also have an English bias and they have had no problem "reporting" according to that bias. It's basically some guy's web site. I'll give you that he's really into F1, but it's just a guy giving his opinion, who got a great URL early on.

I hate to say it, but I'm with Bob here.

The way I see it. Lewi did back off to let Kimi by, but hit it as soon as possible to pass him again...a HUGE momentum advantage. The advantage was gained because had he not cut the corner, he wouldn't have been in the position to pass Kimi in the first place. All the crap that happened afterward is academic...it never should have happened. I'm not a Tifosi by any stretch, but I absolutely see the logic in the decision. Regardless, Ferrari is clearly struggling, and if Hammy is a true champion, he'll nut up and win the races he needs to win the championship. If not then whining about the past is just a bunch of excuses. Just shut up and drive, baby!

Kurt Rahn wrote:

I hate to say it, but I'm with Bob here.

The way I see it. Lewi did back off to let Kimi by, but hit it as soon as possible to pass him again...a HUGE momentum advantage. The advantage was gained because had he not cut the corner, he wouldn't have been in the position to pass Kimi in the first place.

What momentum? If Lewis backed off to let Kimi pass, then Kimi was going faster as he went by and thus had more momentum than Lewis. What Lewis did use was Kimi's slipstream to his advantage.....

I think the whole thing is just more FIA pro Ferrari b*ll sh*t. I doubt they will win the appeal.

Kurt Rahn wrote:

I hate to say it, but I'm with Bob here.

The way I see it. Lewi did back off to let Kimi by, but hit it as soon as possible to pass him again...a HUGE momentum advantage. The advantage was gained because had he not cut the corner, he wouldn't have been in the position to pass Kimi in the first place. All the crap that happened afterward is academic...it never should have happened. I'm not a Tifosi by any stretch, but I absolutely see the logic in the decision. Regardless, Ferrari is clearly struggling, and if Hammy is a true champion, he'll nut up and win the races he needs to win the championship. If not then whining about the past is just a bunch of excuses. Just shut up and drive, baby!

i agree, Kimmi clearly was losing time on the prime tires, and it was a matter of time since lewis was faster in sections 1 and 3.

the pass at the bus-stop was NOT clean though. Lewis outbroke himself, and rather than slowing down to slot back behind Kimmi on the track, he cut the chicane, kept the speed, let kimmi by, and immediately slotted behind him. Show me any other instance where 2 equally powered cars come out of a corner slotted on top of each other. the accordion effect doesn't allow for that.

Kurt Rahn wrote:

I hate to say it, but I'm with Bob here.

The way I see it. Lewi did back off to let Kimi by, but hit it as soon as possible to pass him again...a HUGE momentum advantage. The advantage was gained because had he not cut the corner, he wouldn't have been in the position to pass Kimi in the first place.

I fail to see how a person can have more momentum than the guy who just passed him.

the way i see it, momentum wasn't as big of a factor as being able to be right on top of Kimmi with speed with still 70% of the straight left to go. if he had done the corner clean, there's no way that could have happened.

the question that should be asked is: could Lewis have done that if the corner was clean.

my personal opinion on that is: No, he couldn't have.

Kurt Rahn wrote:

Yeah, the folks at grandprix.com, who have several decades of experience covering the sport,

Been reading Grandprix.com for 5 years now, and while they definitely have experience covering F1, they also have an English bias and they have had no problem "reporting" according to that bias. It's basically some guy's web site. I'll give you that he's really into F1, but it's just a guy giving his opinion, who got a great URL early on.

Both have covered F1 since before the Web became a public venue. Saward worked for Autosport starting in '83; Doodson started there in '68. Hardly just some guy who's really into F1 giving his opinion. Their pro-Brit bias counters the pro-Italian or pro-Spanish or pro-German bias of the other top sporting publications/Web sites.

Kimi's jinking back and forth after the chicane trying to prevent Hami passing is also illegal. You are only allowed to make one defensive move. Both drivers were doing everything they could, creating thrilling racing. Hami was clearly faster, having caught up to Kimi very quickly. We see so many stupid actions that take out one or both cars. The fact that Hami avoided an accident at the chicane, dropped back and then attacked again for the pass shows how good and mature he is as a driver. Kimi kept his foot down when he went off course and drove around the outside of that next corner without losing time to Hami should have also been penalized. He was still racing even though he was off of the circuit. Hami was clearly the man on Sunday, keeping HIS car on course while Kimi lost it in the rain.

first, i agree lewis was faster, and would have came out ahead on the next lap even if he tucked behind kimmi on the bus-stop.

second, what FIA chooses to investigate is their prerogative. should Kimmi have been penalized for blocking? maybe, but the flipside is, would he have needed to block if Lewis didn't cut the corner to gain advantage? anyways, the point is, that's not the dispute here (or is it? are people agreeing that Lewis should have been penalized, and complaining that Kimi should have been too?)

lastly, all i'm saying is that Lewis didn't make a clean pass, gained an advantage by cutting the chicane, kept the advantage without the accordion effect, and made the pass. i personally think it was a legit call.

The point is that BOTH of these amazing drivers were doing everything they could including using more then the defined circuit to produce thrilling racing. Hami avoided potentially taking both of themselves out, while Kimi ended up not being able to keep his car out of the barriers to finish the battle if not the race. It's Racing ... the way we want it. Hami followed the rules of engagement. The artificial result is BS and reeks of politics. I don't think you can look at just one part of the whole wheel to wheel battle and penalize Hami for one part of the sequence. If it was Club racing, and millions of $ weren't involved, Massa couldn't be happy with this "win."