Cal Club Autocross Forums

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:That's what it sounds like to me. What's the difference between the school and racing lines?

• School line is to "rim shot" the hairpin. Less of a turn-in
• Racing line is to drive down the middle of lane and take the inside line and brake in a "straight" line. Thus if you go off, you go off straight. If you rim shot, and drop a wheel off you're going to spin. Sharper turn-in but you protect your line.

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:That's what it sounds like to me. What's the difference between the school and racing lines?

• School line is to "rim shot" the hairpin. Less of a turn-in
• Racing line is to drive down the middle of lane and take the inside line and brake in a "straight" line. Thus if you go off, you go off straight. If you rim shot, and drop a wheel off you're going to spin. Sharper turn-in but you protect your line.

So, in the racing line you don't get as far left on corner entry. How do the actual turn-in points compare? The racing line sounds like an early turn-in compared to the school line. Can you track far enough left to take the straightest line through the chicane?

Don't let Steve A. see that picture!

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:That's what it sounds like to me. What's the difference between the school and racing lines?

• School line is to "rim shot" the hairpin. Less of a turn-in
• Racing line is to drive down the middle of lane and take the inside line and brake in a "straight" line. Thus if you go off, you go off straight. If you rim shot, and drop a wheel off you're going to spin. Sharper turn-in but you protect your line.

So, in the racing line you don't get as far left on corner entry. How do the actual turn-in points compare? The racing line sounds like an early turn-in compared to the school line. Can you track far enough left to take the straightest line through the chicane?

Yes you are correct. Coming out of the bus-stop, I don't track all the way left. I track back right towards the middle, then brake straight, then turn-in is much sharper than a rim shot and thus earlier turn-in. I have to wait to get on the gas (at least in my car if in 2nd gear, if in 3rd, the revs are so low I just mash it because by the time I'm up to speed, I'm straightening out for the chicane). And yes I'm far enough left where it's almost a straight line and I'm zipping down to about 100-105mph. Fun stuff

Nothing like screaming down to the braking zone for Turn 1 at 100+

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Nothing like screaming down to the braking zone for Turn 1 at 100+

Wait I guess we're confusing turns. To me, Turn 1 is the banking off the Main Front straight start/finish of the oval. I'm referring to the right-left hander that is at the end of the straight (that goes under the "cross-over" bridge). See the attached PDF in my previous post above. Or is that considered Turn 1 for the infield-course only??

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Nothing like screaming down to the braking zone for Turn 1 at 100+

Wait I guess we're confusing turns. To me, Turn 1 is the banking off the Main Front straight start/finish of the oval. I'm referring to the right-left hander that is at the end of the straight (that goes under the "cross-over" bridge). See the attached PDF in my previous post above. Or is that considered Turn 1 for the infield-course only??

Sorry, I meant Turn 1 of the road course; 90-degree right-hander after the bridge. You nail the hairpin and chicane and you can get up over 100 in a high horsepower car going into the braking zone. Right-left combo, short straightish section and another left hander; at that point running the roval you continue across to the entrance to the speedway section. Road race course has a double-apex right hander, then a bus stop--left/right/right/left onto the back straight, then left into the chicane and into the hairpin. The roval course joins the back straight of the road course down stream from the bus stop.

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:Thomas, I'm trying to follow on the PDF file of the road course where I ran this past weekend and I'm trying to picture where the GT3 crashed. Could you point it out? In my E46, I actually take the racing "line" even though they teach the "school" line, and as I go through the chicane before the hairpin, I lift a little and take a late apex. Though I have to roll on the gas because if I mash it, I'll just end up drifting.

After the hairpin turn, you come to a chicane and then the straigtaway with the bridge over it.
He crashed just after the chicane and before the bridge on the straightaway.

That monring they had very invasive cones makeing it a real chicane, you couldn;t cut it straight. later in the day I noticed they removed some of the cones and it was almost just a wiggle.

I think this guy just lost it while hard under acceleration and over corrected.

any place you go off track on the inner course there is only a little grass and then walls waiting for you. Not a good place to go off at all except and the end of the striagt you can just blow the turns and go into the playground.

Thomas Barrett wrote:
That monring they had very invasive cones makeing it a real chicane, you couldn;t cut it straight. later in the day I noticed they removed some of the cones and it was almost just a wiggle.

I hate when they do that.

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Sorry, I meant Turn 1 of the road course; 90-degree right-hander after the bridge. You nail the hairpin and chicane and you can get up over 100 in a high horsepower car going into the braking zone. Right-left combo, short straightish section and another left hander; at that point running the roval you continue across to the entrance to the speedway section.

Ah yes.......100mph braking into Turn 1 Now I know how these F1 guys try to win the race on the first corner of the first lap! BTW I haven't watched the F1 race yet since I was away over the weekend. Did see practice and qualifying. Will watch it tonight.

Thomas Barrett wrote:After the hairpin turn, you come to a chicane and then the straigtaway with the bridge over it. He crashed just after the chicane and before the bridge on the straightaway.

Oh really? It must've been a "real chicane" as opposed to a "wiggle chicane". You should join BMWCCA and try out our driving schools. Get a different perspective of our layouts. Buttonwillow has alternate configurations other chapters run. I did pass a Z06 Vette but he was a "D" student coming onto the banked oval front straight. Any decent driver would've just mashed the gas and left me for dead!

Does BMWCCA run anything other than the standard Roval or Road Course-only configs at Cal Speedway? From what I've seen, everybody runs the same setup on the infield-only course.

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Does BMWCCA run anything other than the standard Roval or Road Course-only configs at Cal Speedway? From what I've seen, everybody runs the same setup on the infield-only course.

For the driving schools the LA chapter always runs the R-Oval (aka Road-Course). On Monday they had an instructor and (A student invite only) day session where they ran ONLY the "infield course". No oval. It was cheaper since BMW NA was renting out the track for the whole week so the chapter got a discount.

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Does BMWCCA run anything other than the standard Roval or Road Course-only configs at Cal Speedway? From what I've seen, everybody runs the same setup on the infield-only course.

For the driving schools the LA chapter always runs the R-Oval (aka Road-Course). On Monday they had an instructor and (A student invite only) day session where they ran ONLY the "infield course". No oval. It was cheaper since BMW NA was renting out the track for the whole week so the chapter got a discount.

The infield is a little more forgiving than the Sports Car course, as the roval is called. AMG was going to use the roval one year, but the Speedway didn't want to change it over because NASCAR was coming in a few days. I wasn't disappointed from a right-seat instructor standpoint. There were some students whose talent ended with taking the car out of P.

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:The infield is a little more forgiving than the Sports Car course, as the roval is called. AMG was going to use the roval one year, but the Speedway didn't want to change it over because NASCAR was coming in a few days. I wasn't disappointed from a right-seat instructor standpoint. There were some students whose talent ended with taking the car out of P.

Very forgiving. And yes some students run out of "talent" very quickly. But I do love the banking and to be on the same track that the good ol' boys from NASCAR run, I have a much better respect for those guys. I mean they're driving "bricks" out there, not F1 paper-lite cars.

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:Thomas, I'm trying to follow on the PDF file of the road course where I ran this past weekend and I'm trying to picture where the GT3 crashed. Could you point it out? In my E46, I actually take the racing "line" even though they teach the "school" line, and as I go through the chicane before the hairpin, I lift a little and take a late apex. Though I have to roll on the gas because if I mash it, I'll just end up drifting.

I go through the chicane before the hairpin flat out at about 110-115, the car is a little out of balance so you have to wait to get on the brakes until it settles down. Hard on the brakes but i always gain a car length or two on most people into that corner. I late apex and your right dial it in slow or I jump sidways when I shift down to first gear in my automatic.

400 hp and 400 lbs of torgue is scary when it kicks in all at once on a corner. it will jump sidways so fast it scares most people. I have gotten used to it and expect it when it happens.

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Nothing like screaming down to the braking zone for Turn 1 at 100+

Bob, you're Turn 1, differs from mine (based on the track map we're given). Your Turn 1 = my Turn 12. And at 100mph, thank god for run-off room! See attached PDF.

My turn 3 is where I'm braking from 130mph down to 30! God-bless Hawk HPS. I need to try HP+ or even.......Hawk HT-10. I heard those eat rotors like the cookie-monster but stop "literally" on a dime. Like dropping an anchor!

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Nothing like screaming down to the braking zone for Turn 1 at 100+

Bob, you're Turn 1, differs from mine (based on the track map we're given). Your Turn 1 = my Turn 12. And at 100mph, thank god for run-off room! See attached PDF.

My turn 3 is where I'm braking from 130mph down to 30! God-bless Hawk HPS. I need to try HP+ or even.......Hawk HT-10. I heard those eat rotors like the cookie-monster but stop "literally" on a dime. Like dropping an anchor!

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Nothing like screaming down to the braking zone for Turn 1 at 100+

Wait I guess we're confusing turns. To me, Turn 1 is the banking off the Main Front straight start/finish of the oval. I'm referring to the right-left hander that is at the end of the straight (that goes under the "cross-over" bridge). See the attached PDF in my previous post above. Or is that considered Turn 1 for the infield-course only??

Sorry, I meant Turn 1 of the road course; 90-degree right-hander after the bridge. You nail the hairpin and chicane and you can get up over 100 in a high horsepower car going into the braking zone. Right-left combo, short straightish section and another left hander; at that point running the roval you continue across to the entrance to the speedway section. Road race course has a double-apex right hander, then a bus stop--left/right/right/left onto the back straight, then left into the chicane and into the hairpin. The roval course joins the back straight of the road course down stream from the bus stop.

Gio, we've been over this already. I'm talking about Turn 1 on the Interior Road Course. When you run the Roval, the turns are re-numbered.

Just wanted to show you the map I'm basing things on.

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:Just wanted to show you the map I'm basing things on.

Oh, yeah on the Roval the count's different. Turn 3 coming off the oval onto the infield looks a little unforgiving, but there's some setup room.

I'll be on the infield course in two weeks for Motor Press Guild Track Days.