Guns don't kill people, stupid adults kill people

[Will Kalman]

A car can be a very dangerous thing, BUT, it's has no designed function as a deadly weapon; an UZI has as it's ONLY function being a deadly weapon.

A car was not designed to be a deadly weapon but it can certainly be used in a way that is is deadly.
An UZI was designed as a deadly weapon but it can certainly be used in a way that it is not deadly.

I agree - totally irresponsible for an adult to put an UZI into the hands of an 8-year-old. Totally unjustifiable. But to extend "automatic weapon, control of which cannot not be ensured" to "guns" is over-reactive. And that's why your statements polarize those who hear them. If you're going to go extreme, then the reactions of those who disagree with you must become extreme to counter you - even if you weren't originally that far apart. Then you've got the RED team and the BLUE team and, like the Red and Blue gangs, nobody knows really why their fighting anymore or what even started it buy they're sure as hell not going to budge.

If someone wants to write a law that says "no guns over X caliber or semi- or full-auto or assault weapons may be used by any person under (say) 15 years of age", I'd probably go along with that **. Something to address your rational fears and concerns without taking freedoms away from me. That's a lot better than "from my cold dead hands" and "no use whatsoever other than killing people" extremophiles who end up preventing collaboration for rational laws.

** Note that I own an "assault weapon" (90% because I think the machine and the physics are cool despite being a "gun") and I also have kids who are only two years younger than the UZI kid.

[Jeff Shyu]

well, i'm not saying that it's not stupid. uzi in the hands of 8 year old is definitely stupid.

i'm just saying that there's plenty of equally stupid things going on, that ISN'T being regulated. how do you determine the priority of regulation?

[Will Kalman]

Of course, there still was a tragic end to the story: the world lived on, only to be put into The Darkness by 8 years of the Bush Administration.

Which we hope is not followed by an equally misguided over-correction. Not a statement for or against any candidate, just a societal observation.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

I will grant you that a 16 yr. old driving a car can be a danger to themselves and everyone around them. H*ll, I slid into a snow bank on the way home from getting my driver's lic. A car can be a very dangerous thing, BUT, it's has no designed function as a deadly weapon; an UZI has as it's ONLY function being a deadly weapon.

Please, please enough of the justifications: there is NO good reason to put an UZI into the hands of an 8 year old!

O.K. one: The Cylons are attacking Earth; nearly everyone is dead on the planet...except for little Billy. Thank G*d, little Billy's parents were wise enough, while they were holed up in the mountains of Idaho, before the Cylons figured out how good the skiing in Sun Valley was and vaporized it, to teach him how to fire off two UZIs at once, changing clips on the fly. And how fortunate it was for all of mankind that little Billy's parents, before they tragically died by falling into the Pits of Modor, dipped those UZI bullets in Quaker motor oil (5-30) - the only thing deadly to Cylons and any properly functioning motor - thereby saving the World!!!! Yea!

Of course, there still was a tragic end to the story: the world lived on, only to be put into The Darkness by 8 years of the Bush Administration.

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G*d, how can this be even argued

Comment of the Day!

BTW, aren't the rifles used in shooting competitions bolt or lever action, ie, not semi-automatic? Then there's the fact that with longer barrel it's a lot harder to shoot yourself.

So let's review: Uzi, possibly modified for full-auto, has short barrel and some kickback, leading 8-year-old holding down the trigger, losing control of the gun and putting a cap in his own ass, well, head probably. That's not comparable to putting a .22 short rim fire rifle in the kid's hands. At least after one round, it'll be clear whether the kid can control recoil.

[Bill Schenker]

...If someone wants to write a law that says "no guns over X caliber or semi- or full-auto or assault weapons may be used by any person under (say) 15 years of age", I'd probably go along with that **. Something to address your rational fears and concerns without taking freedoms away from me. That's a lot better than "from my cold dead hands" and "no use whatsoever other than killing people" extremophiles who end up preventing collaboration for rational laws.

That's a good start, though I'd make it 18.

Remember, I started this because I have a problem with: a.) "Adults" through their stupidity and irresponsibility, causing (yes, they caused this; remember, guns don't kill people, people kill people) the death of an 8yr. old, and b.) I really don't see the need for assault weapons, period. I understand how one might think that "b." is not to their liking; I can't see how one can argue against "a."

Signed,

"Little Billy"

[Bill Schenker]

...So let's review: Uzi, possibly modified for full-auto, has short barrel and some kickback, leading 8-year-old holding down the trigger, losing control of the gun and putting a cap in his own ass, well, head probably. That's not comparable to putting a .22 short rim fire rifle in the kid's hands. At least after one round, it'll be clear whether the kid can control recoil.

Bingo!

[Bob Beamesderfer]

BTW, for all you conservatives who don't understand what it means to think independently, you can be certain that if McCain wins, I'm buying shotgun to protect my home from the neo-cons and their end-times army of idiots. :mrt:

Why wait? Shooting a 12ga at clays is great fun.

Skeet would be fun. But I was thinking Dutch automatic shotgun, nicknamed the "street sweeper." If you catch a glimpse of the Secret Service or Diplomatic Security Service follow vehicles, they are typically a dark blue Suburban. Lead agent is in front seat with an Uzi or PN 90; behind the lead are agents with HK sub-machine guns on the side windows. In back, one has an HK, the other the automatic or Remington 870 shotgun at the rear windows. Side arm is a SIG Sauer .357.

The snipers have .30-30 or .338 rifle with scope. Barrel is nearly two inches in diameter, precision rifled. When those guys are given the order it's a head shot, and they don't miss. Several years ago, some nutjob was shooting at the back of the White House. He was wounded in the leg, probably because he moved at just the right moment. Otherwise, he'd be dead. That was before 9/11. Since then, the rules of engagement might have been expanded to taking a second shot.

Edit to update SS weaponry; they get whatever they want.

[Will Kalman]

Remember, I started this because I have a problem with: a.) "Adults" through their stupidity and irresponsibility, causing (yes, they caused this; remember, guns don't kill people, people kill people) the death of an 8yr. old, and b.) I really don't see the need for assault weapons, period. I understand how one might think that "b." is not to their liking; I can't see how one can argue against "a."

See? We agree.

No extremes needed, no polarization, no us-against-them.

(But don't get cocky, we have guns! ;) )

[Bill Schenker]

(But don't get cocky, we have guns! ;) )

Wasn't it Tom T. or someone that suggested we combine AX and shooting?

Axbiathalon (wait, you neo-cons will never go for that; it has the word "bi" in it.) Soloathalon - how's that?

FJA & FJB only get water guns, however!

[Bill Schenker]

And just to show you folks I'm not totally anti-guns, let me give you the 1st target to use for Soloathalon...

[Earl Merz]

Bill, have you ever firied an UZI? Most 8 year olds I know couldn't hold two of them and pull the trigger while aiming. One would be hard enough for them. It's not like an UZI is really that small or light. Anyways, we all know gun control is using both hands.

What is an "Assult Rifle"? You throw that around like they are common place. You know very few people in CA actually own these deadly "Assult Rifles" that you talk about.

The fear mongering is big with you today. Personally I wouldn't trust the judgement of an adult that just blindly handed an 8yo a full auto weapon. Yes, it would scare me. But then again, watching what the general public did on our highways with their babys in their cars the last 9+ years scared me too. Seeing the results of how some of these "parents" raised their childeren has scared me even more.

[George Schilling]

And just to show you folks I'm not totally anti-guns, let me give you the 1st target to use for Soloathalon...

Wait a minute, I love that picture!

[Bill Schenker]

[quote="Earl Merz"]Bill, have you ever firied an UZI? Most 8 year olds I know couldn't hold two of them and pull the trigger while aiming. One would be hard enough for them. It's not like an UZI is really that small or light. Anyways, we all know gun control is using both hands...

Agreed. That's why I think it was insane to let an 8 yr. old shoot one, and the reason I started this whole thread! The tragic outcome of letting this kid @ an UZI shouldn't seem to be such a surprise - except to maybe some potential Darwin Award Fianlists in WESTFIELD, Massachusetts.


Personally I wouldn't trust the judgement of an adult that just blindly handed an 8yo a full auto weapon. Yes, it would scare me. But then again, watching what the general public did on our highways with their babys in their cars the last 9+ years scared me too. Seeing the results of how some of these "parents" raised their childeren has scared me even more.

Agreed.

[Kevin Price]

Bill is right: we should ban stupid adults.

[Bill Schenker]

Bill is right: we should ban stupid adults.

Here! Here!

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Bill, have you ever firied an UZI? Most 8 year olds I know couldn't hold two of them and pull the trigger while aiming. One would be hard enough for them. It's not like an UZI is really that small or light. Anyways, we all know gun control is using both hands.

What is an "Assult Rifle"? You throw that around like they are common place. You know very few people in CA actually own these deadly "Assult Rifles" that you talk about.

The fear mongering is big with you today. Personally I wouldn't trust the judgement of an adult that just blindly handed an 8yo a full auto weapon. Yes, it would scare me. But then again, watching what the general public did on our highways with their babys in their cars the last 9+ years scared me too. Seeing the results of how some of these "parents" raised their childeren has scared me even more.

Yes, an Uzi is neither light nor easily fired with one hand, except in the movies. It weighs nearly 8 pounds, and has blow-back action; usually fires 9x19mm rounds.

Under a modern definition, an assault weapon is one designed for military use, semi- or full automatic and clip-fed. People usually think M16 or AK-47. But, the M1 was an assualt rifle, and having fired one, I can tell you that the bolt-action takes a little practice to operate quickly and smoothly. Very little recoil compared with a 30.06.

[George Schilling]

Bill is right: we should ban stupid adults.

How about banning people who overreact.

Not being a gun owner, I probably don't have the knowledge as some of you, but I have on several occasions shot 9mm weapons. A 9mm weapon has very little recoil. From the picture, it appeared this uzi was in the shape of a rifle which adds to the stability of the weapon. Apparently the kid had shot weapons before. There was an instructor by his side. This was a FREAK accident. Accidents happen. People are sometimes killed in accidents. That's life, or death as it were.

In the lefty world, one death is one too many. There will be an outcry to hang the adults involved; laws will be passed making criminals out of parents who dare let their children shoot weapons they are perfectly comfortable shooting; kids who enjoy shooting will wonder why they suddenly can't join in on the fun; the left will feel good about itself for passing another unneeded law; people will still die in accidents; and the country will have moved on step further to the left and government controlling our lives. Those of you who understand what is happening in our country and long for the freedoms that have been taken away will understand. The lefties will just end the argument by saying Schilling is a extreme right wing conservative idiot who doesn't care about human life. Heaven help the event master and people involved if my karting example ever happens. You'll be the adult they will want to hang.

Anyone for a game of lawn darts?


.

[Sebastian Rios]

I bought my first gun just to see if I would pass the background check.

[Earl Merz]

Under a modern definition, an assault weapon is one designed for military use, semi- or full automatic and clip-fed. People usually think M16 or AK-47. But, the M1 was an assualt rifle, and having fired one, I can tell you that the bolt-action takes a little practice to operate quickly and smoothly. Very little recoil compared with a 30.06.

CA defines an assult weapon as a semi auto/or full auto rifle with either a high capacity mag or a detachable mag(or both high capacity[10+ rounds] that is detachable) and with a pistol grip. There are a couple other "evil" features like a flash suppressor(real dangerous there... :mrt: ) or bayonet lugs, granade launcher. Then there was the run to ban the evil muzzle break.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

How about banning people who overreact.

Not being a gun owner, I probably don't have the knowledge as some of you, but I have on several occasions shot 9mm weapons. A 9mm weapon has very little recoil. From the picture, it appeared this uzi was in the shape of a rifle which adds to the stability of the weapon. Apparently the kid had shot weapons before. There was an instructor by his side. This was a FREAK accident. Accidents happen. People are sometimes killed in accidents. That's life, or death as it were.

Firing an Uzi sub-machine gun is not the same as firing a handgun. A Sig-Sauer P229 weighs less than two pounds, the Uzi weighs nearly 8. The open-bolt blowback of the Uzi makes the gun harder to aim and for a kid probably harder to control.

George, freak or not, certain kinds of accidents carry criminal penalties. There's nothing new or lefty about that. It was part of English Common Law before our independence.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Under a modern definition, an assault weapon is one designed for military use, semi- or full automatic and clip-fed. People usually think M16 or AK-47. But, the M1 was an assualt rifle, and having fired one, I can tell you that the bolt-action takes a little practice to operate quickly and smoothly. Very little recoil compared with a 30.06.

CA defines an assult weapon as a semi auto/or full auto rifle with either a high capacity mag or a detachable mag(or both high capacity[10+ rounds] that is detachable) and with a pistol grip. There are a couple other "evil" features like a flash suppressor(real dangerous there... :mrt: ) or bayonet lugs, granade launcher. Then there was the run to ban the evil muzzle break.

Yeah, the law was overwritten to include the widest range of semi-auto rifles as possible. Came about after the Stockton school shooting. Shooter had a semi-auto M-16 copy.

On a side note, a couple of years ago LAPD SWAT changed over from a 9x19mm sub-machine gun [Colt or S&W] to an AR-15 variant that fires .223 rounds. Big difference in cartridge weight and muzzle velocity, making the .223 a much deadlier weapon, but it can fire through barriers, which the 9mm isn't very good at. That capability is probably why the SS uses the .357 SIG round, which has better penetration than a .40 or 9mm, but with more recoil.

[Earl Merz]

The standard off the shelf .225/5.56 round is only 55gr. My .22lr is also 55gr. My 9mm ranges between 115gr and 145gr. But yes, it has a higher velocity. My AR-15 is chambered in 5.56Nato vs .223. 5.56 has higher pressure. Yet most of the time I shoot .223. It's usually what's on sale. I bought some mil-surp 5.56 in steel case, never gonna do that again (even though it was $.30/round).

[Larry Andrews]

Bill is right: we should ban stupid adults.

Headfirst into the woodchipper is roughly the appropriate level of sensitivity to the pain they might suffer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvGzeQT1 ... re=related

Now, that's an appropriate use of dangerous technology!

[Bob Beamesderfer]

The standard off the shelf .225/5.56 round is only 55gr. My .22lr is also 55gr. My 9mm ranges between 115gr and 145gr. But yes, it has a higher velocity. My AR-15 is chambered in 5.56Nato vs .223. 5.56 has higher pressure. Yet most of the time I shoot .223. It's usually what's on sale. I bought some mil-surp 5.56 in steel case, never gonna do that again (even though it was $.30/round).

Were I buying a handgun for self-defense, I'd probably go .40 and maybe frangeable bullets. Still, the best home defense weapon is a Remington pump-action. The unmistakable sound is enough to scare the less foolish away.

[Earl Merz]

Were I buying a handgun for self-defense, I'd probably go .40 and maybe frangeable bullets. Still, the best home defense weapon is a Remington pump-action. The unmistakable sound is enough to scare the less foolish away.

I have 9mm cause they were cheap. Sig P6 > Taurus PT92AF fwiw. But I also have a Monkey Wards brand named Mossberg 500 loaded with OObuck alternating with 1oz slug. If the buck doesn't stop them, the slug will.