December Practice/Championship Reg Open

[Steve Ekstrand]

I thought GRA method meant sit in line all day with 60 other cars to wait an hour for your run because it isn't a GRA event where you can get your runs in when the members are napping.

[Kurt Rahn]

Otherwise, it may mean run all the time except when you are working vs (traditional) run only in your group and work in the morning and afternoon ..

Bingo

[Arthur Grant]

Might mean superior (GRA) vs status quo (traditional)?

Otherwise, it may mean run all the time except when you are working vs (traditional) run only in your group and work in the morning and afternoon .. [/quote]


Thanks, that's what I thought. I like the GRA format the way GRA ran it with the color lane designators, less likely to have line shifting which I got bit by a couple of time last event. Seemed to run better than the last event without. Also GRA seemed to be a little more time sensitive not over running the multi driver cars well keeping the other lanes on idle.

Both ways seem to have there good and bad. Feel more comfortable dropping out of line in the GRA format to make changes.Not worried about getting my runs in. Durring the GRA event, believe I got 12 runs in, during the last event I think it was just 9. Had one 30 minute wait for my run.

[Veronica Hirsch]

I actually prefer the "traditional" practice set-up, old fuddy-duddy that I am, because it's more predictable and fair. You know when you run, you know everyone is getting the same number of runs (mostly) and, most importantly, you know when you are not running so that you can do other things like watch the course, take care of the car, rest, go get gas etc.

The GRA method is certainly easier to set up and much more relaxed, but in practice it has some drawbacks for participants. At the last practice I only actually managed 9 runs and spent the whole day in grid, plus I had a lot of 30-minute plus wait times. The two-driver line seemed like it was always running, and the lines didn't seem to get called up in any particular order so I felt like I couldn't leave the car for a minute because my line might get called up. A few times I noticed that people were yelling for the driver of an unattended car to come and move it.

Also, I think there may have been a lot of line swapping -- after I ran and came back to grid, suddenly the cars that used to be behind me were gone and the other lines were really long.....??? One time our line waited about 30 minutes to run, but then we stopped for lunch right when our line was next. Obviously I would have preferred to do almost anything else during that time rather than wait in line and then not run. The idea is that you will get more runs with this format, but in practice that is not guaranteed. There is after all only so much time in the day.

The freedom to run whenever is the best thing about the GRA format -- but maybe there should be some limit on the number of runs, as in, "come take your 6 morning runs whenever you want (before noon.)"--that way as people get their runs and leave the grid, the grid naturally gets smaller (or stays the same size) over time. The early birds could get their six right away, leave, and then others can take their place. There would be an incentive for some people to wait to get into the grid later and not crowd it initially. You wouldn't have all 60-80 cars in grid at the same time and someone with 8 runs and someone with 2.

If the runs were counted, there also wouldn't be any need to police the lines for "swappers," and the two-driver cars wouldn't have any kind of advantage on the number of runs. In the afternoon, everyone takes another 6, and then if there is still daylight left, and the will, you could just open it up all together after that.

Just my two cents worth, obviously. Everyone does a great job running the events, and I'll still come out rain or shine, whatever format is running!

[Ron Tsumura]

I actually prefer the "traditional" practice set-up, old fuddy-duddy that I am, because it's more predictable and fair. You know when you run, you know everyone is getting the same number of runs (mostly) and, most importantly, you know when you are not running so that you can do other things like watch the course, take care of the car, rest, go get gas etc.

The GRA method is certainly easier to set up and much more relaxed, but in practice it has some drawbacks for participants. At the last practice I only actually managed 9 runs and spent the whole day in grid, plus I had a lot of 30-minute plus wait times. The two-driver line seemed like it was always running, and the lines didn't seem to get called up in any particular order so I felt like I couldn't leave the car for a minute because my line might get called up. A few times I noticed that people were yelling for the driver of an unattended car to come and move it.

Also, I think there may have been a lot of line swapping -- after I ran and came back to grid, suddenly the cars that used to be behind me were gone and the other lines were really long.....??? One time our line waited about 30 minutes to run, but then we stopped for lunch right when our line was next. Obviously I would have preferred to do almost anything else during that time rather than wait in line and then not run. The idea is that you will get more runs with this format, but in practice that is not guaranteed. There is after all only so much time in the day.

The freedom to run whenever is the best thing about the GRA format -- but maybe there should be some limit on the number of runs, as in, "come take your 6 morning runs whenever you want (before noon.)"--that way as people get their runs and leave the grid, the grid naturally gets smaller (or stays the same size) over time. The early birds could get their six right away, leave, and then others can take their place. There would be an incentive for some people to wait to get into the grid later and not crowd it initially. You wouldn't have all 60-80 cars in grid at the same time and someone with 8 runs and someone with 2.

If the runs were counted, there also wouldn't be any need to police the lines for "swappers," and the two-driver cars wouldn't have any kind of advantage on the number of runs. In the afternoon, everyone takes another 6, and then if there is still daylight left, and the will, you could just open it up all together after that.

Just my two cents worth, obviously. Everyone does a great job running the events, and I'll still come out rain or shine, whatever format is running!

Great observations and suggestions!

1) No line swapping
2) Count number of runs for each driver to make sure everybody has a similar number of runs

I don't if or how GRA has a patent on any type of format?

[Steve Towers]

My 2 cents: There should always be at least 1 run group "resting". Never should we have everybody running that's not working. It's makes for a huge, slow grid. In the cooler months it's nearly impossible to retain any heat in tires. We (CSCC) would do well to emulate the PCA-OCR autocross format for practices. Runs smooth, everyone gets twelve runs (although on short winter days with 100 cars it's more like to be eleven runs) and you only work once. 6 run groups - 1 working, 1 running, 1 in "pre-grid", all others resting. The key is making sure that pre-grid fills up before the previous group finishes. You do 4 runs then retire to resting, and so it cycles thru. Pre-grid transitions to the running grid and the next group fills pre-grid. There is a separate lane for 2 drivers and folks that "tweak" between runs. Your work period covers 3 run groups (about an hour and 15-30 mins.)

[Rick Brown]

i still think the 3 group, 6 runs each, run/work/rest, repeat in the afternoon works best. No excessive waiting in grid to run, but you can still pull out to make minor adjustments without disrupting things. Relative short work groups. Time to make major adjustments, actually rest or go get food or parts. Works well for both long days and short days (adjusting the number of entrants or number of runs). What are the negatives?

[Theo O.]

I don't know the name of the format but I like the last practice event format.

Run anytime when you are not working period. I would agree that the 2 driver lane did get out of control, and some of the grid worker had a problem, saying no to cars that obviously just joined the line. If that can be fixed then it's all good.

I think it's a slipery slope if we guarantee number of run's in this type of format. Some people needs a lot of time to tweak their car, they should naturally get less run's than someone who is just working on his driving skills.

[Theo O.]

Woops, I need to get my but to the speedway to help set up

[Steve Towers]

i still think the 3 group, 6 runs each, run/work/rest, repeat in the afternoon works best. No excessive waiting in grid to run, but you can still pull out to make minor adjustments without disrupting things. Relative short work groups. Time to make major adjustments, actually rest or go get food or parts. Works well for both long days and short days (adjusting the number of entrants or number of runs). What are the negatives?

Certainly better than work once, run all day.

[KJ Christopher]

I don't know the name of the format but I like the last practice event format.

Run anytime when you are not working period. I would agree that the 2 driver lane did get out of control, and some of the grid worker had a problem, saying no to cars that obviously just joined the line. If that can be fixed then it's all good.

I think it's a slipery slope if we guarantee number of run's in this type of format. Some people needs a lot of time to tweak their car, they should naturally get less run's than someone who is just working on his driving skills.

That is the GRA style. I used to like it, but found it rarely works as well in practice as it does in theory. Good intentions and all. I didn't notice how it was going this past GRA event since I was spending so much time making adjustments out of grid.

[James Yom]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR they called me into work tomorrow, so no practice for me. I haven't turned a wheel in anger in 2 years, and this is KILLING me. Anyone have an interesting ride I can co-drive with on Sunday? I'm STILL waiting for my Hankook tires (I think the ship went the LONG way around the world), so I got no tires for the S2k. Otherwise, I guess I'll see you all in January... enjoy the beautiful weather!