Cal Club Autocross Forums

If you read the Appendix if makes it sound like here is something for local regions to use. As in get out the tape measure. But the reality is apparently anything but. Can they do anything in the rulebook that doesn't add to the confusion. Like when they give FJ clarifications that state wrong, misleading and conflicting information as a response to complaints that the guidelines are unclear or outdated. Sigh...

Why can't a local region get out the tape measure and measure height and track? I think you are making this more complicated than it really is.

John Stimson wrote:Why can't a local region get out the tape measure and measure height and track? I think you are making this more complicated than it really is.

They can easily. But that isn't SSF. Its a whole lot of reading between the lines, assumptions, and SWAG's to make the leap from what is actually printed and just whipping out the tape and measuring height and track.

Obamacare seems more understandable at times... Wait. Is that a PP post?

This seems pretty clear and straightforward to me:

This chart is for Regional Officials and Technical Inspectors to determine
the acceptance level of high roll center vehicles referred to
in Section 3.1. The measurements are to be taken from the ground
to the tallest point of the vehicle for the Overall Vehicle Height and
the normal track measurement as stated in the GCR for the Average
Track Width.
Vehicles with a SSF less than 1.30 should not be permitted to compete
in our Solo events due to their higher risk of roll over.

And then they have that handy dandy chart with "Acceptable Range" labelled and the bad region grayed out.

Steve Ekstrand wrote:Obamacare seems more understandable at times... Wait. Is that a PP post?

Yes

If you stuck in there....

"Since SSF numbers may not be readily available at an event, a 1.00 height to track ratio is a workable approximation that can be easily measured on site."

Then the SCCA wouldn't face the rabid plaintiffs attorney in a rollover accident who would use that appendix to draw and quarter our insurance carrier.

I think they do say essentially that, although not nearly so concisely. Perhaps you could write them a letter and suggest an improved wording.

Just wanted to bump this thread is there any updates on the possibility of the Jeep srt8 being classed? I ran my Jeep at a speed ventures event this weekend as my only option and the jeep did fantastic. I drove by and even stopped at the SCCA Solo course and it was much bigger it would have been nice to run there. I also spoke with a few guys and they could'nt believe the jeep was not allowed to run.

Our local CST, Run-What-You-Brung Class ... if it's illegal for stock?

Mako Koiwai wrote:Our local CST, Run-What-You-Brung Class ... if it's illegal for stock?

Out of curiosity, are you making similar, completely off-base judgement calls when you're working gate?

Donny Means wrote:Just wanted to bump this thread is there any updates on the possibility of the Jeep srt8 being classed? I ran my Jeep at a speed ventures event this weekend as my only option and the jeep did fantastic. I drove by and even stopped at the SCCA Solo course and it was much bigger it would have been nice to run there. I also spoke with a few guys and they could'nt believe the jeep was not allowed to run.

Donny, I'm not aware of any reversal by national on their prior decision. While it may seem an odd decision, please understand that we have to make our rules around the "I'm taking this to the nth degree" mindset. As in:
Now, if you think your Jeep is incapable of similar behavior on sticky tires and grippy surfaces, please write in to the rule makers (http://www.sebscca.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and let them know. Please be prepared to offer empirical evidence to back your assertions. I would love it if it could run. But overall, our group of people take parking lot racing to new levels of seriousness/sillyness, and that is what our ruleset is geared to deal with.

Solo rules state:

Vehicles with a SSF less than 1.30 should not be permitted to compete in our Solo® events due to their higher risk of roll over.

The 2010 Cherokee STR8 has an SSF of 1.17 according to Motor Trend. That seems pretty cut and dry. Like KJ said, if you petition the SEB you'll need a very convincing argument to overrule the 1.30 guideline.

If you can lower the CG and/or widen the track enough to meet the stability guidelines, you should be good to go. But I assume the truck has already been lowered some by the factory, and getting to 1.30 from 1.17 seems like a long way to go...

Donny Means wrote:Just wanted to bump this thread is there any updates on the possibility of the Jeep srt8 being classed? I ran my Jeep at a speed ventures event this weekend as my only option and the jeep did fantastic. I drove by and even stopped at the SCCA Solo course and it was much bigger it would have been nice to run there. I also spoke with a few guys and they could'nt believe the jeep was not allowed to run.

Surpisingly the SCCA coure was only about 5 seconds longer than the SV course (I'm probably the only one who did both). The SV course was unusually long and the SCCA course was unusually short this time though.

I'll make the same suggestion I did a year and a half ago:
http://www.CalClubRallyX.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
;)

Jay W

Our local CST, Run-What-You-Brung Class ... if it's illegal for stock?

Out of curiosity, are you making similar, completely off-base judgement calls when you're working gate?

I was just reposting what someone else mentioned early ... and I didn't see an answer to it at that time.

KJ Christopher wrote: Out of curiosity, are you making similar, completely off-base judgement calls when you're working gate?

KJ the new Jason---We really don't need another....

Don

Mako, the safety rules (section 3, where the rule about top-heavy vehicles lives) apply to all cars that run in an autocross event, no matter what class they run in -- even if they don't run in a class.

Well I appreciate all the replys I am only on a 420 compound tire right now until the wear out. Also the jeep is lowered about 2" all the way around it also has addco sway bars front and rear. But I think at this point I'm just beating a dead horse maybe I'll come run with you guys when I get another vehicle in the future one that can be classed. ;)

Donny Means wrote:Well I appreciate all the replys I am only on a 420 compound tire right now until the wear out. Also the jeep is lowered about 2" all the way around it also has addco sway bars front and rear. But I think at this point I'm just beating a dead horse maybe I'll come run with you guys when I get another vehicle in the future one that can be classed. ;)

Donny - just get a cheap Miata and come have some fun. It will be way quicker than the Jeep anyway

Max Hayter wrote:Donny - just get a cheap Miata and come have some fun. It will be way quicker than the Jeep anyway

Might cost less than a set of tires for the jeep too.

Seriously, the white miata with peeling hood paint at the SpeedVentures event cost $750.

Jay W

Yeah I have a few cars in mind being 6'4 I dont fit to well in miatas. But im thinking about a mk2 16V GTI or maybe a SVT focus I have owned a few of those in the past and they were fun in autoX either way im looking now and i'm sure i'll be out there with you guys soon. Once again thanks everyone for the help.

Jayson Woodruff wrote:

Max Hayter wrote:Donny - just get a cheap Miata and come have some fun. It will be way quicker than the Jeep anyway

Might cost less than a set of tires for the jeep too.

Seriously, the white miata with peeling hood paint at the SpeedVentures event cost $750.

Jay W

Jayson would this be the one with the hello kitty on the doors? Thats the only white one I remember from the day.

John Stimson wrote:If you can lower the CG and/or widen the track enough to meet the stability guidelines, you should be good to go. But I assume the truck has already been lowered some by the factory, and getting to 1.30 from 1.17 seems like a long way to go...

Well, we don't mess with that for Stock. If compelling, factual, 3rd-party data were submitted it *may* be classed in one of the ST classes, but I'd really doubt that. The SEB has been dealing with a series of rollover concerns regarding new cars, so I doubt you'll see any slack cut for an SUV.

I back Jayson's suggestion. An inexpensive Miata will be far less expensive to operate for this and a whole lot more fun.

Mike

Granted, I have ridden in a 2008 GC SRT8, driven pretty fast around the big track at Willow Springs, BUT, the driver was Sam Moses, who holds several track records in various classes at Riverside and Willow Springs, and because it was a press even he was not pushing it anywhere near 10/10ths. It was good for what it was, but I don't think it be suitable for an autocross course, not even a "Vette course."

The other SUV/CUV/Whatever-Vs I've driven on a track didn't inspire the confidence required to dive bomb corners. The BMW X5 M quickly revealed its biggest drawback -- weight -- in the first braking zone.

BMW calls the X5 an SAV... Not an SUV. I wonder if the SEB would buy that. ;)
Both the X5 in higher models and the Cayenne Turbo have sport modes that lower the vehicle for handling.
I've taken an X5 M to the limit. Tadd has probably done the same to a Cayenne Turbo. Those vehicles still have shiny roofs.

I'd rather autocross an SRT-8 Jeep than a 318ti or a Yaris.

No, there was another one there, hood paint was half gone.

I recently bought a Miata for RallyX. Besides the 'fun for buck' factor, just about everyone who autoxes has owned one. So there's a plethera of local spare parts and repair expertise. I bet there's 10 people reading this that'll change a miata head gasket for a 12 pack of beer.

Jay W

Donny Means wrote:

Jayson Woodruff wrote:

Max Hayter wrote:Donny - just get a cheap Miata and come have some fun. It will be way quicker than the Jeep anyway

Might cost less than a set of tires for the jeep too.

Seriously, the white miata with peeling hood paint at the SpeedVentures event cost $750.

Jay W

Jayson would this be the one with the hello kitty on the doors? Thats the only white one I remember from the day.