The ant and the grasshopper

[George Schilling]

indication of changing valves

Did America suddenly go VTEC when I wasn't looking?

Sorry, just trying to inject some levity.

I can't believe Bob missed this.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

indication of changing valves

Did America suddenly go VTEC when I wasn't looking?

Sorry, just trying to inject some levity.

I can't believe Bob missed this.

I saw it and let that one go.

[Steve Ekstrand]

I've always felt politicians in general suffer not from VTEC, but instead from VVT

"Variable Values Timing"

[George Schilling]

Who, specifically, is attacking Christians and over what?

Where was the conservative outrage when the Presbyterian church in Tucson was charged with harboring illegal Salvadoran immigrants in the '80s? I was working in AZ at the time and I didn't see John McCain or Jon Kyl come running to their defense.

Am I attacking all Christians or Christianity itself when I say that Pat Robertson is an ass for saying the 9/11 attacks are some divine or other punishment for what he believes are this country's ills?

He's referring to BoyScouts being kicked out of public buildings, student Christian groups that are no longer allowed to meet on campus, removal of anything Christian in the public squares, removal of the WWII memorial in San Diego because it's a cross, changing the LA County seal because there was a tiny cross on it representing the early missionaries, etc. There is a lot of Christian history in this country that is being systematically being wiped out under the guise of separation of church and state.

My memory doesn't go back more that about tow weeks, if I'm lucky.

Robertson I guess represents the far right, people who think that the US was behind 9/11 represent the far left, and then there's the rest of us who see it for what it was. But one thing we should all agree on is that we don't want it to happen again. I can only imagine what the first people who proclaimed the earth was round were called.

[George Schilling]

I saw it and let that one go.

Thanks

[Steve Ekstrand]

The constitution prohibits the "establishment" of a United States equivalent to the Church of England.

The extreme liberal agenda outlaws Christianity outside of a private church and even there issues present.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

He's referring to BoyScouts being kicked out of public buildings, student Christian groups that are no longer allowed to meet on campus, removal of anything Christian in the public squares, removal of the WWII memorial in San Diego because it's a cross, changing the LA County seal because there was a tiny cross on it representing the early missionaries, etc. There is a lot of Christian history in this country that is being systematically being wiped out under the guise of separation of church and state.

My memory doesn't go back more that about tow weeks, if I'm lucky.

Robertson I guess represents the far right, people who think that the US was behind 9/11 represent the far left, and then there's the rest of us who see it for what it was. But one thing we should all agree on is that we don't want it to happen again. I can only imagine what the first people who proclaimed the earth was round were called.

A lot of what you've cited is over-reaching and I know liberals who agree with me; maybe they're really moderates, but under the neo-con definition Nixon was a liberal. The LA County seal issue was absurd. It's worse than when P&G had to drop their traditional crescent moon and stars logo because a bunch a nut jobs thought it was related to Satanism.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

The extreme liberal agenda outlaws Christianity outside of a private church and even there issues present.

Outlaws? Now whose hyperbole is over the top. And "extreme liberal" means what? Anybody more moderate than, say, Lou Dobbs, is an "extreme liberal" if they so much as suggest something is violating that separation. Of course, Mr. Dobbs is a xenophobic elitist, so maybe he's too far right as a benchmark.

[Steve Ekstrand]

I never know how to pigeonhole Dobbs. He zings far left and far right of me all the time. Sometimes at the same time....

[Bob Beamesderfer]

I think the Boy Scouts argument is something of a red herring. They don't allow gays, atheists or agnostics to be members. Some, NOT ALL, governmental bodies have policies that deny access to public facilities to groups that discriminate. BSA's right to its policies has been upheld by the US Supreme Court and several lower courts.

Congress stepped in, twice, with these:

"the federal government passed laws mandating the BSA's equal access to local and state-level governmental resources. The Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act, enacted in 2002, requires public elementary and secondary schools that receive U.S. Department of Education funding to provide BSA groups equal access to school facilities.[56] The Support our Scouts Act of 2005 requires state and local governments that receive HUD funding to provide BSA groups equal access to governmental forums (lands, facilities, etc.)."

What's left is that governments are not required to give the Scouts preferential access.

[George Schilling]

He's referring to BoyScouts being kicked out of public buildings, student Christian groups that are no longer allowed to meet on campus, removal of anything Christian in the public squares, removal of the WWII memorial in San Diego because it's a cross, changing the LA County seal because there was a tiny cross on it representing the early missionaries, etc. There is a lot of Christian history in this country that is being systematically being wiped out under the guise of separation of church and state.

My memory doesn't go back more that about tow weeks, if I'm lucky.

Robertson I guess represents the far right, people who think that the US was behind 9/11 represent the far left, and then there's the rest of us who see it for what it was. But one thing we should all agree on is that we don't want it to happen again. I can only imagine what the first people who proclaimed the earth was round were called.

A lot of what you've cited is over-reaching and I know liberals who agree with me; maybe they're really moderates, but under the neo-con definition Nixon was a liberal. The LA County seal issue was absurd. It's worse than when P&G had to drop their traditional crescent moon and stars logo because a bunch a nut jobs thought it was related to Satanism.

Yeah, it's the extreme stuff that clouds debate. But you would have to conceed that it's things the far left endorses, beit a minority of liberals, that gets the most traction with polititians and in the courts. As in earlier posts, there is a general fear of the far right, but I can't think of any examples where their agenda has been taken seriously.

[Steve Ekstrand]

What fears me most of all is the wholesale vacuuming of my wallet from the far left agenda.

[Jeff Shyu]

What fears me most of all is the wholesale vacuuming of my wallet from the far left agenda.

this is pretty much it.

the bottom line is, if Obama can do 5% of what he promises, it would be alright by me. the problem is, he's not telling me how he plans to pay for any of it. when politicians don't tell you how they want to pay for stuff, there's pretty much only -1- answer.

i already pay my fair share of taxes, as a single home owner with no children, thank you very much.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Well I wouldn't call the Supreme Court that decided the case over the SD War Memorial Cross liberal by any definition, yet they ruled it had to move from public property. Another ridiculous case. I do know some people who would disagree with me, but not many. The cross has/had been there 40 years. One day someone wakes up and claims to be offended and files suit and somehow that's enough to jump on the slippery slope.

[Jeff Shyu]

Well I wouldn't call the Supreme Court that decided the case over the SD War Memorial Cross liberal by any definition, yet they ruled it had to move from public property. Another ridiculous case. I do know some people who would disagree with me, but not many. The cross has/had been there 40 years. One day someone wakes up and claims to be offended and files suit and somehow that's enough to jump on the slippery slope.

yeah, when i was listening to the story on NPR, all i could do was shake my head in disgust.

kinda like when i heard about the f'n fire fighter getting millions because he ate dogfood, even though he's pulled the same prank on others before.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

What fears me most of all is the wholesale vacuuming of my wallet from the far left agenda.

I think your wallet's gotten a pretty good vacuuming from the Bush agenda. Now Arnold's posturing about an increase in the state sales tax. He could be serious or it could be a bluff.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Well I wouldn't call the Supreme Court that decided the case over the SD War Memorial Cross liberal by any definition, yet they ruled it had to move from public property. Another ridiculous case. I do know some people who would disagree with me, but not many. The cross has/had been there 40 years. One day someone wakes up and claims to be offended and files suit and somehow that's enough to jump on the slippery slope.

yeah, when i was listening to the story on NPR, all i could do was shake my head in disgust.

kinda like when i heard about the f'n fire fighter getting millions because he ate dogfood, even though he's pulled the same prank on others before.

The city council in LA is one of the the worst when it comes to this crap. Along with being arrogant and insular. During the time for public comment, most members are doing anything but paying attention.

Obama will have to work long and hard to outspend W, but that doesn't mean he should. I have to pay income tax on my unemployment. Bring a little more salt, this wound needs it.

[Kurt Rahn]

You're not getting any of that from the asians.

Too true. Culturally commendable ability to forgive and move on, given what we put the West Coast Chinese immigrants through during the Gold Rush, and the Japanese through during WWII.

[George Schilling]

You're not getting any of that from the asians.

Too true. Culturally commendable ability to forgive and move on, given what we put the West Coast Chinese immigrants through during the Gold Rush, and the Japanese through during WWII.

Certainly you have a vivid memory of that Jeff? Sorry Kurt, I couldn't resist

[Kurt Rahn]

Actually, that was my point. Slavery ended in 1865, suffrage was approved in 1920 and segregation ended in 1968, but the groups affected by those events are still takin' it out of whitey's hide, even as our culture has caught up with what the law demanded. With the exception of segregetion (I was 1 yr old) I wasn't even alive for this stuff. And despite being brought up to accept and respect all people regardless of race, color, creed, etc., I still get blamed for the offenses of my ancestors.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Actually, that was my point. Slavery ended in 1865, suffrage was approved in 1920 and segregation ended in 1968, but the groups affected by those events are still takin' it out of whitey's hide, even as our culture has caught up with what the law demanded. With the exception of segregetion (I was 1 yr old) I wasn't even alive for this stuff. And despite being brought up to accept and respect all people regardless of race, color, creed, etc., I still get blamed for the offenses of my ancestors.

You weren't even born, the Civil Rights Act became law in 1964.

I don't feel like I've suffered much for being white and male. And I don't know of any offenses of my ancestors, although both sides of my family trace back to before the Revolutionary War and I know one on each side that fought for the Union in the Civil War. Maybe someone was a landowner and holder of slaves, but not to my knowledge.

[Jeff Shyu]

race was never an issue for me, until i got denied acceptance to college because there were already too many asians in the architecture program..

i was pretty pissed about that for a while.

in retrospect, going to SLO probably would have made me a tree hugging hippie or something.

[Steve Ekstrand]

I really don't think the gold rush or WWII rises to the level of injustice I subjected the young girls of Asianmodelpalooza to.
}:) :king: :heyes:

[Steve Ekstrand]

in retrospect, going to SLO probably would have made me a tree hugging hippie or something.

Yeah, look at what it did to the Avard's....

[Steve Ekstrand]

Did I mention how much I hate George W Bush for the war in Iraq?

I can't bear the hundreds of billions of dollars pissed away while we argue over hundreds of MILLIONS at home that can do real good for Americans and America. Then I think of the human toll of lives lost, lives shattered, families destroyed, and of the extended and repeat tours and destroyed careers for reservists.

I will NEVER forgive W.

I know many many Republicans who feel the same way.

As to the money part of it. Barry "don't call me by my middle name or you're racist" Obama's biggest proposed piece of legislation as a US Senator is a nearly trillion dollar aid package on top of existing aid. Its a total give away to the same crooks at the UN who stole all the oil for food money. If Obama is willing to toss an additional $700B to a $1T in blind world aid, where does his spending stop? I hope he's bright enough to realize that a 150% income tax rate doesn't raise more money than a 35% tax.