Cal Club Autocross Forums

In regards to the people dragging their feet:

- even when people "looked" like they were holding up a line, there were usually at least 5-6 cars already waiting at the start.

- the only time I saw the start waiting on a car from grid was at the very end of the run group when the single drivers were done & some multi-driver/x-runs were left (just not enough cars).

Though the national style grid may not have worked back then (and may not exactly work @ fontana once we're back), I think it's worth a shot. Our current grid setup "works", but it could definitely be improved.

I think the biggest improvement can be made by restricting or better training of the grid people. The grid experience in the multi vs single driver line was drastically different between the 3rd & 4th run groups. Not that either one was particularly bad or better, but it was inconsistent.

Quoc-Viet Dang wrote:In regards to the people dragging their feet:

- even when people "looked" like they were holding up a line, there were usually at least 5-6 cars already waiting at the start.

- the only time I saw the start waiting on a car from grid was at the very end of the run group when the single drivers were done & some multi-driver/x-runs were left (just not enough cars).

Though the national style grid may not have worked back then (and may not exactly work @ fontana once we're back), I think it's worth a shot. Our current grid setup "works", but it could definitely be improved.

I think the biggest improvement can be made by restricting or better training of the grid people. The grid experience in the multi vs single driver line was drastically different between the 3rd & 4th run groups. Not that either one was particularly bad or better, but it was inconsistent.

I absolutely agree with everything you have said here EXCEPT...we personally saw one car abandoned. The same car two separate times. One of those times, the car definitely was holding up the line and had to be moved by a 3rd party. (names and car description intentionally not mentioned). At the time, it certainly left a feeling that it was all about the driver versus those waiting in line.

Ed Holley wrote:I absolutely agree with everything you have said here EXCEPT...we personally saw one car abandoned. The same car two separate times. One of those times, the car definitely was holding up the line and had to be moved by a 3rd party. (names and car description intentionally not mentioned). At the time, it certainly left a feeling that it was all about the driver versus those waiting in line.

There's really no excuse for that on Sunday. At a practice is happens occasionally when someone goes on a ride along and doesn't get back in time. But on Sunday, I can't think of a reason except for maybe someone getting sick and making an emergency pit stop. A good grid chief would have found out what was up the first time and made sure it didn't happen again.

Ed Holley wrote:

Quoc-Viet Dang wrote: there were usually at least 5-6 cars already waiting at the start.

As event master, my big peeve with people working the grid is having a line of 20 cars lined up at the start. There is no reason to have more that 4 or five cars staged at any given time. I sometimes feel like a broken record reminding the same culprits over and over again to keep the line at the start a reasonable length. No matter what the pre-grid configuration, for some reason, this is almost always a problem.

George Schilling wrote:

Ed Holley wrote:

Quoc-Viet Dang wrote: there were usually at least 5-6 cars already waiting at the start.

As event master, my big peeve with people working the grid is having a line of 20 cars lined up at the start. There is no reason to have more that 4 or five cars staged at any given time. I sometimes feel like a broken record reminding the same culprits over and over again to keep the line at the start a reasonable length. No matter what the pre-grid configuration, for some reason, this is almost always a problem.

The you need to start choosing your own culprits. ;) I'm a firm believer that a good grid person could get rid of a lot of these problems. We ought to identify a pool of 8-10 (maybe more) people who we all agree does a good job at it, then have the worker chief look at the worker pool in each group, see if one of them is available in each work group and assign them accordingly. Assigning people to the grid just because they came up first or said they don't want to chase cones is not a great idea, as we've seen over and over.

Kurt Rahn wrote:We ought to identify a pool of 8-10 (maybe more) people who we all agree does a good job at it, then have the worker chief look at the worker pool in each group, see if one of them is available in each work group and assign them accordingly. Assigning people to the grid just because they came up first or said they don't want to chase cones is not a great idea, as we've seen over and over.

Bingo!

And, the grid chief needs to have the authority to deny a run to those holding up the event. Nothing sacred about number of runs. Maybe the grid chief needs a radio to stay connected to the folks in the motor home, i.e "Control, this is the grid chief, car xx is denied one run." Don't know if we get into the area of declared mechanicals, etc.

Steve Towers wrote:And, the grid chief needs to have the authority to deny a run to those holding up the event. Nothing sacred about number of runs. Maybe the grid chief needs a radio to stay connected to the folks in the motor home, i.e "Control, this is the grid chief, car xx is denied one run." Don't know if we get into the area of declared mechanicals, etc.

lets not get crazy here. we currently don't have a "grid chief", we have grid workers. I don't think it's appropriate to give a random worker the power to take peoples runs away. The grid workers already have the power to call over the event master if things are really getting out of hand but seriously I've never, in over 10 years worth of local events, seen grid ever get anywhere close to that point. This is about having fun right?

Marshall Grice wrote: This is about having fun right?

George Schilling wrote:And this doesn't consider the additional time it takes to design and set-up a proper grid. Oh wait a minute......it's easy......I forgot! :mrt:

So the folks in Chicago, Milwaukee, and other regions must sprinkle pixie dust over the grid and have it magically work for them.

Setting the grid up isn't the problem. It's who you have running it that determines how effective it is.

Why do I even bother...

James Yom wrote:Why do I even bother...

I'm willing to bet more regions use simple lines. But then again apparently everyone who disagrees with you is stone stupid.

Jay W

Jayson Woodruff wrote:

James Yom wrote:Why do I even bother...

I'm willing to bet more regions use simple lines. But then again apparently everyone who disagrees with you is stone stupid.

really classy.

Jayson Woodruff wrote:I'm willing to bet more regions use simple lines.

More people doing it doesn't mean it's better.

I'd bet that a lot more regions have around 60 entrants than have around 200, too, and that makes a big difference in the most efficient ways to run the event.

James Yom wrote:really classy.

That was my point, don't treat people like they're dumb and you might get more receptive conversation. You're setting the tone here.

Jay W

John Stimson wrote:You're guaranteed 5 minutes between runs in the rules, anyway. And threats can be so effective that you never actually have to carry them out.

I love how often this is misquoted. THERE IS NO 5 MINUTE RULE! While many of our long time competitors often quote this so called rule, it does not exist.

The rule book mentions 5 minutes twice.
page # 55 Solo Rules
7.4 Reruns - ...A minimum of five (5) minutes must have elapsed before a competitor may take a rerun.

page # 246 Appendix D - Solo® Trials Rules
An ambulance must be on call and available to respond within five (5)minutes of a telephone call from the event site.

I guess if you repeat something often enough it becomes defacto, but that does not make it reality.
Craig

Craig Naylor wrote:

John Stimson wrote:You're guaranteed 5 minutes between runs in the rules, anyway. And threats can be so effective that you never actually have to carry them out.

I love how often this is misquoted. THERE IS NO 5 MINUTE RULE! While many of our long time competitors often quote this so called rule, it does not exist.

The rule book mentions 5 minutes twice.
page # 55 Solo Rules
7.4 Reruns - ...A minimum of five (5) minutes must have elapsed before a competitor may take a rerun.

page # 246 Appendix D - Solo® Trials Rules
An ambulance must be on call and available to respond within five (5)minutes of a telephone call from the event site.

I guess if you repeat something often enough it becomes defacto, but that does not make it reality.
Craig

I'm guessing it's because it's in the National Tour (and probably Nationals) Supp Regs:

"7. A minimum of five minutes must have elapsed between runs for any car. This includes reruns or runs for another driver of the same car. A grid marshal will be specifically assigned to handle two-driver cars and will keep a time log to assure compliance with the five-minute minimum between runs. The time shall be measured from the time the car returns to grid until the time it leaves the start line."

Which of course doesn't apply to regional events.

The time shall be measured from the time the car returns to grid until the time it leaves the start line.

I wonder how they handled this at Nationals when it was held at Topeka ... and one couldn't even see the Start from the Grid!

... radios, the syncing must have been a nightmare.

At Heartland Park there was a line in sight that marked "The Time Starts Here". So it was a slight modification in practice of the traditional National supps rule.